John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[maffieg]

Teyla nightmare:

Spoiler:

Remember, Teyla's dream starts out "normal," as does all their early dreams. The dreams escalate once we get to Kate's dream, but initially, Teyla and Keller's dreams and even Ronon's to a certain extent start out normal. Each dream escalates until the entity actually kills in Kate's dream. But it is still a dream so as with any dreams, things are often mixed up and out of place.

Teyla finds herself back to the beginning, in Rising, where she is in her tent like she was when she first met the expedition members. But then current day John is suddenly there and they are sharing a private dinner. Then suddenly current day Ronon appears and teases her with a smug grin and flustered, she quickly denies his teases, "It's just dinner." We are still in normal dream mode here. This has nothing to do with her nightmare. So analyze that moment however you want, but don't call it her nightmare. *rolls eyes*

AFTER this moment, is when her nightmare begins. NOW, John suddenly turns into Evil John, standing directly in front of her and staring at her very intensely. She knows immediately something has changed and her tone goes cautious. The nightmare and her fears unfold from there. Evil John spits out her fears, telling her no one trusts her but him, telling her she hasn't been the same since being in the mind of the wraith queen, then bringing up memories of how her father died, then bringing back memories of Bug John, only this time, Bug John tries to kill her.

THESE are her worst nightmares, shown AFTER Evil John clearly appears.

It's as simple as that!

insert a very elfy squee right now for the scene where

Spoiler:

they were going to have a private dinner in her dream.

Btw

Spoiler:

Please tell me DR. H doesn't kick the bucket. I so like her and wouldn't want her to die.

[WingedPegasus]

OT

Spoiler:

g'night all!

[LoveConquers]

Dang I was sooo rooting for TR but anyway guess you get gloating rights.

Was DG an awesome eppy meaning very JT shippy with aww inspiring special effects and crazy cool acting?

Yes I know I said one question but I feed on spoilers.

It really was an awesome ep, IMO!

I don't know how to link to single posts, but here is the page where I have my detailed summaries on. (Page 2220).

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...7728&page=2220

[maffieg]

Oh yes, VERY good! As is Kate's advice to Teyla right before her dream.

Spoiler:

"If you feel there is something real between you and Col. Sheppard, than you should do something about it." AH!!! So we get the dream before the nightmare, Kate's encouragement, and the hug!! How cool is that?!

I am such a fan for hugs and since LC and WP are the winners of our lil contest you get this.

Spoiler:

[sanssong]

From Ronon....?

Spoiler:

Clearly, the boys were on to something. I think Ronon was doing with Keller what he did with John...fishing for information. I think he wanted to see or hear if she was interested in John since even Ronon sees that every other girl is....so, I think he just wanted to see her reaction and see if she was interested in John and nothing more. If you saw when John came in and saw Keller, I think the boys were onto some mischief. I don't think Ronon got hurt on purpose, but I think the boys know when there's a cute girl around. I saw no jealosy either, Scifi...not from anyone. And Keller clearly showed no interest in either one of them. She was still spooked about her dream.

Just my two cents.

I love your two cents! That sounds more like the Ronon and John that I know. And I love your idea that Ronon was fishing! Very Ronon like!

About Ronon in DG

Spoiler:

the way I saw it, this was Teyla's dream and her fears...I think she sees Ronon as someone that might see something...or even Better...I think Ronon was an interpretation of herself or her own conscious speaking to her about how she feels for John...isn't this was Keller was trying to tell her to admit to...and even Teyla herself asked, if it was her subconscious trying to tell her something...or something like that she said, right? So, I think this with the exception of evil John, were all personifications of her fears...and Ronon was simply an illusion of what her own fears are...her lack of wanting or what she fears, or what she wants and is fearful of wanting it...you get my idea, right?

just my two cents!

Yes!!! That's exactly it! Now keep in mind I've not actually seen this, but I read LC's commentary.

Spoiler:

And yes, the real Ronon wasn't anywhere to be seen here. Everyone except for Evil John was Teyla herself. And yes, her fears, that there is no one but John who really trusts her and that she can trust. Now while, I'm sure she takes comfort in that in the fact that he's always there for her, it would be a pretty scary place to live thinking there's only one person in the world you can trust. And I LOVE that the writers are having her face up to her feelings for John. Very very cool

[LoveConquers]

Hey! Me too!

YAY! *High fives*

[LoveConquers]

I am such a fan for hugs and since LC and WP are the winners of our lil contest you get this.

Spoiler:

Oh, that is beautiful, Maff!!! Thank you so much!!!!

[maffieg]

It really was an awesome ep, IMO!

I don't know how to link to single posts, but here is the page where I have my detailed summaries on. (Page 2220).

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...7728&page=2220

I off to read so I won't bug you with one mil questions.

Glad you like the pic. I was actually saving it for when I wonI mean my group of TR voters but heck that's not going to happen now so....ENJOY!!!

[sanssong]

Oh yes, VERY good! As is Kate's advice to Teyla right before her dream.

Spoiler:

"If you feel there is something real between you and Col. Sheppard, than you should do something about it." AH!!! So we get the dream before the nightmare, Kate's encouragement, and the hug!! How cool is that?!

I know! I saw that in your ep commentary and I thought that was extremely cool! The writers have been sooooooo good to us! I like to think of Robert Cooper as the father of JT, after all he was the author of that first breathless scene in Rising. Anytime he puts pen to paper for us (so to speak) it's kick butt awesome.

I just want to bring out a point I've been mulling over as well. I've been an amateur actor for many years and even majored in it in college, and one of things we're told to look for as actors for clues about who our character is and what they want most, is, 'what do OTHER characters say about them and their motivations?' These observations by outside characters can be just as important as what the character says about themselves.

Spoiler:

So when Ronon and Kate are seeing that there is something there with John and Teyla AND they are taking the trouble to comment on it, that says to me that the writer(s) are putting these observations there to draw the viewer's attention to it. It's important and not something we've made up in our brains, or changed in the story to fit our ship agenda. There are real and ever growing feelings between John and Teyla which is something most of US have known for a while now.

[sanssong]

insert a very elfy squee right now for the scene where

Spoiler:

they were going to have a private dinner in her dream.

Isn't that awesome? Definite opportunity for squeeage!

Btw

Spoiler:

Please tell me DR. H doesn't kick the bucket. I so like her and wouldn't want her to die.

Uhm.... well..... I

Spoiler:

wish I could tell you that she doesn't.... It's very sad.

[maffieg]

WOW read LC's summary and now I can't wait for DG. It sound really good.

Only thing

Spoiler:

Poor Kate... I really liked her and she was such a friend to Teyla. sigh

Well I off as I gotta sleep for some reason but I will try to get here a lil earlier tomorrow after work.

Remember dream of JT
and pray for a fifth season.

[LoveConquers]

I just want to bring out a point I've been mulling over as well. I've been an amateur actor for many years and even majored in it in college, and one of things we're told to look for as actors for clues about who our character is and what they want most, is, 'what do OTHER characters say about them and their motivations?' These observations by outside characters can be just as important as what the character says about themselves.

Spoiler:

So when Ronon and Kate are seeing that there is something there with John and Teyla AND they are taking the trouble to comment on it, that says to me that the writer(s) are putting these observations there to draw the viewer's attention to it. It's important and not something we've made up in our brains, or changed in the story to fit our ship agenda. There are real and ever growing feelings between John and Teyla which is something most of US have known for a while now.

Well said, Suz! My acting experience doesn't extend beyond high school plays, LOL, but one of my degrees is in Literature, both English and World, and I also do professional editing with a small publishing company on the side. So analyzing and understanding manuscripts is second nature for me. And character exposition is never meaningless or pointless, especially in a 43 minute script where everything is scrutinized down to the last minute detail. Those lines were added and kept and were there for a reason.

[LoveConquers]

I off to read so I won't bug you with one mil questions.

Glad you like the pic. I was actually saving it for when I wonI mean my group of TR voters but heck that's not going to happen now so....ENJOY!!!

LOL! That is too funny! Thanks for making me laugh and thanks for sharing it!

[ruby_caspar]

Part two, DG:

Spoiler:

Carter makes announcement to city. John laying on his bed, sits up and goes to door. Opens it and surprised to find Teyla there.
John, "I was just about to come see you, but I wasn't sure if you wanted to see me." He looks her up and down as he says this.
Teyla, still reeling from Kate's death, goes right into his arms with a small sob/gasp/sigh sound. As we've seen in the hug clip we saw before, she clenches him tightly, both arms around him and fingers digging into his shoulder. She is crying into his chest. John stands stunned for a moment, unsure, Puts a hand on her back, lifts it in the next shot, then puts it back again. His lower hand is off screen, but looks to be around her as the top of his arm is visible and going around her body. His brows crease in emotion as if he's not sure how to help her. I LOVE this scene!!! It's pretty much what we've already seen before, but now we know the context as well. I think this shows us that Kate was a good friend of Teyla's and also a confidant of hers. The way Kate so casually told Teyla to explore her feelings for John if they were real makes it appear they've discussed John before. So I imagine Dr. Hewston in Sunday was not the only friend Teyla confided in. Kate was both her friend and her doctor and after losing so much, she is in shock and goes to John for comfort. John is unsure as in his mind, she is still mad at him and he is to blame for Kate's death, since it was his touching the entity that indirectly caused it. He is feeling guilty and unsure as his words show, "I wasn't sure if you wanted to see me." When she then cries into his arms, his mind is reeling here, and probably more guilt racketing him as well. He tentatively touches her as she cries more. The scene is also obviously cut. John's hand goes to her back and then suddenly the next angle is before he touches her and his hand is in the air again and then again tentatively giving her that first touch. It's like we see that first touch from two different camera angles that were edited together. So I think that's partly why it looks a little awkward, since we see one motion from him twice because of the editing. So Joe didn't play it that way, but it came out that way on screen. But as I said in my description, the way it's editing, he touches her, lifts his hand, and then touches her again and holds it there. His lower arm is around her the whole time. So it adds a feeling of awkwardness I think, which is too bad, but in this scene and in this moment, given John's state of mind, it works. Teyla is holding very tight the whole time. Awww!!!!!!!!! BIG SQUEE!!!!!!

They find out the entity is in Rodney. They isolate him. Team talk. John says there must be a way to get into Rodney's dreams to help him. Carter remembers that dream connection machine thingy from SG1 and John wants to do it.
Teyla, concerned steps up to him. "It does not have to be you."
John, "Yeah, well, it's my bad idea."
On a side note, I found it annoying how much they dumbed down poor Ronon in this scene! He was like, "Huh, what?" this whole scene. Didn't fit!

John and Rodney are hooked up to machine, Rodney's dream is rowing a boat in a storm, trying to get back to the city. Evil John sits in boat telling him he can't do it. Real John appears behind him telling him to keep going. Rodney tells him to help him row, John appears next to him and they both row in the storm. John comments his dream is not what he expected, and Rodney says, "What about that?!" They turn to see a clown sitting behind them. John comments that he hates clowns. LOL! Great scene between them! Whale comes up and swallows the whole boat. John awakes to see Rodney going into cardiac arrest. Keller tells him he's dead. John walks despondent down the hall, suddenly others come up to him making mean comments, he sees Evil John in background and realizes the entity is in him now. Back to the infirmary again and Rodney wakes up. Back in John's dream world, he fights Evil John. GREAT whumping scene of them fighting! AWESOME! Evil John yells John's worst fears of failing his friends while they fight. Rodney appears in his dream to encourage him, tells him he's not dead, and helps distract Evil John so John can beat him and throw him through the gate. John and Rodney both wake up. They return the crystals to the planet and leave.

Final scene, John sitting in mess hall by himself at night. Teyla joins him.
Teyla, "Couldn't sleep."
John, "Yeah, me too."
She sits in the chair across from him.
Camera shows passage of time, Rodney next joins them with a tray full of food. Then Carter and Keller. Team talking together as camera fades to black. I love this ending!!!! They all went through this experience together and in the end, find comfort being together.
SUCH A GREAT EP!!!! Definitely one of my new favorites!!! Shippy subtext and whumping John! WAHOO!

And on that note, I'm going to bed! LOL!

Two DG questions:

Spoiler:

Is Ronon not in the final scene?

Is the dream where Kate dies another dream of Teyla's, or is it Kate's? Just wondering because Teyla finds her, and she would obviously go straight to her if she had that dream, to make sure she was ok...

[ruby_caspar]

Spoiler:

John did look suspiciously at Ronon a few times. LOL

Okay..um..EW! I didn't think Ronon/Keller was that repulsive.

............

I don't care I still think their kinda cute

I think so too and I shall brave Camy and her bat to say so!!

Spoiler:

Yea, He had his hand covering his mouth. It was either him gloating that he got a lucky shot or... you know. Can you say set up. LOL

Oh I so wouldn't be surprised...

Spoiler:

in fact I think I feel a fic coming on. Finally! My muse has been dead for a week. Hmm...