John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[seldear]

Hm. I did plan to make a Birthday present of it for myself... We'll see!


I'm not a fan of killing Kanaan. The man is mis-matched with Teyla, for sure (and a convenient plot-device to get Teyla "out of the way" for all those people who don't like her) but there's no need to kill him. He and Teyla can simply agree to split-parent Torran, he goes back to Athos, Teyla stays in Atlantis, they co-parent. It's adult, mature, and very likely in a culture that wouldn't have the concept of either a nuclear family or 'happily ever after with two-point-three kids and a white picket fence'.

[bluealien]

Hm. I did plan to make a Birthday present of it for myself... We'll see!


I'm not a fan of killing Kanaan. The man is mis-matched with Teyla, for sure (and a convenient plot-device to get Teyla "out of the way" for all those people who don't like her) but there's no need to kill him. He and Teyla can simply agree to split-parent Torran, he goes back to Athos, Teyla stays in Atlantis, they co-parent. It's adult, mature, and very likely in a culture that wouldn't have the concept of either a nuclear family or 'happily ever after with two-point-three kids and a white picket fence'.

Oh yes I agree....

I think both of them will soon come to the realisation that they are not right for one another and it will be an amicable split, but its still fun thinking of ways he may sucumb to some unexpected disaster....

[Jeyla4ever]

Hm. I did plan to make a Birthday present of it for myself... We'll see!


I'm not a fan of killing Kanaan. The man is mis-matched with Teyla, for sure (and a convenient plot-device to get Teyla "out of the way" for all those people who don't like her) but there's no need to kill him. He and Teyla can simply agree to split-parent Torran, he goes back to Athos, Teyla stays in Atlantis, they co-parent. It's adult, mature, and very likely in a culture that wouldn't have the concept of either a nuclear family or 'happily ever after with two-point-three kids and a white picket fence'.

*giggles* You know that's what Teyla wants with John, don't you? The white picket fence.

Tie, I agree. I've always thought that Teyla will come to her senses, although I honestly believe that she's willing to go in this route and be "happy" with Kanaan. I think the most plausible scenario would be that Kanaan sees that Teyla isn't in love with him. That she's in love with another and he's not willing to be the second man. I also think that at some point, John will show his feelings in public whether it be in a moment of desperation or an unusual circumstance that will also show Teyla and others just what's been lying beneath the surface all along. DANG I so wanted to see that on screen!!!!

*sniff*

Still hurts, you know?

I'm so with you Blue...it's still fun to think of these outrageous ways to get rid of him. It's like we are only doing what the writers themselves started with this ridiculous plot line.

Thanks guys to all of you for understanding. I hope to have it up next Friday but again, no promises.

Blue, here's the LJ link and it's also in Fanfiction.net under JTVS6 username. Enjoy!

http://community.livejournal.com/jt_vs6/

[CazzBlade]

I'm not a fan of killing Kanaan. The man is mis-matched with Teyla, for sure (and a convenient plot-device to get Teyla "out of the way" for all those people who don't like her) but there's no need to kill him. He and Teyla can simply agree to split-parent Torran, he goes back to Athos, Teyla stays in Atlantis, they co-parent. It's adult, mature, and very likely in a culture that wouldn't have the concept of either a nuclear family or 'happily ever after with two-point-three kids and a white picket fence'.

I agree, I think only opportunity to kill of Kanaan (in a reasonable way) was if they never found him, if Michael had killed him before Teyla reached her people.

[CazzBlade]

Pre-Legacy series story in the Stargate Magazine by Jo Graham: http://jo-graham.livejournal.com/47638.html Anyone know if it's available in the UK?

[Artie]

I agree, I think only opportunity to kill of Kanaan (in a reasonable way) was if they never found him, if Michael had killed him before Teyla reached her people.

I think it could have worked if they'd killed Kanaan in Search and Rescue, if he heroically gave his life to let Torren and Teyla escape. But having not done that, it just didn't make sense.

I agree with what lots of people have just said -- the best way to do it now would be to have Kanaan and Teyla come to this as responsible adults.

[CazzBlade]

I think it could have worked if they'd killed Kanaan in Search and Rescue, if he heroically gave his life to let Torren and Teyla escape. But having not done that, it just didn't make sense.

Yes, I can see that They would have needed to give him more of a personality though, so that his death had an impact on the show. If they'd killed Kanaan off in S&R it wouldn't have affected me as a viewer as he was so bland in it, so I didn't see his connection with Teyla or what the implications of a life without him would do to her.

[Artie]

Yes, I can see that They would have needed to give him more of a personality though, so that his death had an impact on the show. If they'd killed Kanaan off in S&R it wouldn't have affected me as a viewer as he was so bland in it, so I didn't see his connection with Teyla or what the implications of a life without him would do to her.

At least she'd feel really guilty?

I suppose they could have killed him in The Prodigal. Michael could have killed him since he only wanted Teyla and Torren. Major angst for Teyla, but it might have been a way to go?

I've toyed with the idea of killing him in fic, but I can't figure out a way to do it that doesn't seem contrived and clever-clever.

[CazzBlade]

At least she'd feel really guilty?

I suppose they could have killed him in The Prodigal. Michael could have killed him since he only wanted Teyla and Torren. Major angst for Teyla, but it might have been a way to go?

I've toyed with the idea of killing him in fic, but I can't figure out a way to do it that doesn't seem contrived and clever-clever.

If they'd given him a personality and storyline of his own (not a storyline that takes up any episode but maybe showing him dealing with the grief of watching his people subjected to whatever Michael did to them) then a way to kill him off would have flowed naturally from that. However, he was just an invisible babysitter, the writers didn't know what to do with him so there was nothing to work with.

[Princess Awinita]

I've toyed with the idea of killing him in fic, but I can't figure out a way to do it that doesn't seem contrived and clever-clever.

You mean food poisioning isn't clever?? There goes THAt storyplot

[bluealien]

At least she'd feel really guilty?

I suppose they could have killed him in The Prodigal. Michael could have killed him since he only wanted Teyla and Torren. Major angst for Teyla, but it might have been a way to go?

I've toyed with the idea of killing him in fic, but I can't figure out a way to do it that doesn't seem contrived and clever-clever.

I still felt that the perfect episode to kill him off was Search and Rescue and it would have been a believable way to get him out of the picture... I got the feeling there for a moment that Teyla was beginning to realise that she had made a mistake with her choice in Kanaan.. even with the Michael influence I felt he came across as weak and cowardly... I really thought that Kanaan would then at least come through for her in the end.. (not conveniently bumping into Shep and his team and then suddenly deciding he would help) ..
But all we got was some weak man who Teyla was suddenly making googly eyes at after he had refused to help her and their unborn son... ... the whole thing just seemed so contrived .... and it would have been much more believable that Kanaan had died doing something heroic and at least given him some reason why Teyla was drawn to him... I didnt expect him to be some macho hero but at least he could have shown some kind of back bone or personality... I really think the writers kept him around so they didnt have to bother with Teyla again..I read in a fic about Teyla being "complete" now that she had aquired her instant family... this is the kind of nonsense I think the writers felt as well.. what else would Teyla ever want now that she had her new fabricated family....



Thanks for the link Camy

[Jeyla4ever]

What got to me about Search and Rescue was that Teyla was on her way to leave with the team sans Kanaan. She mentioned nothing about him or to go back and get him. She was being carried by Ronon and they were going straight for the puddle jumper and she knew it. Now, I understand....she just had the baby, she knew their time was limited and she knew John wasn't going to risk it for Kanaan. Still, after all that for Kanaan, an entire 4th Season plot line for her to seek him, like you Blue, I think she was willing to leave him believing that he wasn't going to change and she wasn't willing to risk her child's life nor the team's life for someone who wasn't willing to help her. She knew John was her only hope. She stated as much to John and she honored him by naming her child after him. That was very clear. But yes...it was choppy and convenient for the writers to keep him around.

I don't think it was because they wanted to believe that Teyla had this happy family, and I'm sorry Blue, but I never saw Teyla googling at Kanaan. If I had, I wouldn't be so upset as to why she's still with the man besides the fact that they have a child together.

Didn't Mallozzi state that they were going to kill Kanaan in The Kindred? That part where he is burning, I thought originally they were going to do that for real but for some reason opted not to.

I think the whole dilemma for these guys was that they didn't know what to do with Teyla and her child if Kanaan died. For Teyla to leave her son with her people while she's off in missions would have made her seem like a cold and heartless mother. I know that I couldn't do it. If her parents were around or a sister, or even Charin...that would have been different. But we all know that even Teyla feels more at home now with the team than with her own people. So, that makes sense. Who was going to care for Jr. without making Teyla come off as a terrible mother who leaves her child while she's facing such dangers. Now, with Kanaan, that's different. He's there should she not be there and that is more what I feel makes up Teyla's character.

Could the writers have done away with Kanaan and still come up with something plausible for Teyla? Of course they could have...they could have come up with another character from her people that could care for Torren. Kanaan's parents perhaps? There were ways, but the bottom line is that I think that was the main reason why the writers opted to leave Kanaan. There's no one in Atlantis that could take care of Jr. even if John swore by it. They all have a job to do and the only ones that could love Torren as much as Teyla and Kanaan....there is no one besides John. That's the reality.

It happens even in real life. I was so grateful that my mom was there to care for my little ones while Mr. Camy and I continued to work. It makes a difference.

But, it can also be argued that if you really think about it how many Athosian children are left parentless and so you would think that the Athosians would be used to this and have some sort of system in place where orphans of parents that have been culled or died would be taken care of. Teyla herself was an orphan so we can assume that most likely Charin was the next closest thing to a family that she had and she must have helped in her upbringing. So, again...there were ways, but the writers shut their minds to it and didn't give it further thought.

Sad....

[NinaM]

Pre-Legacy series story in the Stargate Magazine by Jo Graham: http://jo-graham.livejournal.com/47638.html Anyone know if it's available in the UK?

Isn't the Stargate magazine released in the UK as well...

I haven't read the story in the magazine yet as I got it like two days ago... maybe at some point *lol*

[seldear]

Its still fun thinking of ways he may sucumb to some unexpected disaster....

It's still fun to think of these outrageous ways to get rid of him. It's like we are only doing what the writers themselves started with this ridiculous plot line.

I'm just uncomfortable with it. *shrugs*

I guess I've been around fandom too long, where fanwriters use drop-of-the-hat excuses to avoid admitting that their OTP might not be canon. And the twists get even more convoluted.

"John wasn't really in love with Teyla; I mean, he puts himself out of his comfort zone for her, behaves like your typical guy's guy who's just been socked in the heart when he finds out she's pregnant to another man, nearly kills himself to rescue her, and dreams of her with wine by candlelight while searching for her, then is very carefully distant once he finds her and she's back in Atlantis with the father of her child the way a guy is when he thinks you're in love with someone else and doesn't want to get hurt...BUT HE'S NOT IN LOVE WITH HER!"

O rly?

John and Teyla together isn't canon in the show. It is canon that John has shown repeated interest in Teyla, and that Teyla was with Kanaan at the start of Season Five. (honestly, the fact that he's not in the final scene while Amelia Banks is? that Teyla never asked Woolsey to stop the city, Kanaan wants to get off? HE'S NOT IN ATLANTIS, PEOPLES. FFS. THE EARTH LOGIC IS YOUR FRIEND.)

There were plenty of ways to elaborate on Kanaan - to make his presence meaningful for Teyla or for the expedition or for their fight against Michael. Unfortunately for viewers, using any of them would have required a deeper understanding of Teyla, of Athosian culture, of Pegasus culture, and how diplomacy and integration of cultures actually works. We were never going to get that from the Stargate PTB.

[bluealien]

What got to me about Search and Rescue was that Teyla was on her way to leave with the team sans Kanaan. She mentioned nothing about him or to go back and get him.

Exactly... she never gave him a second thought... the father of her child.. her beloved... the man she wanted to spend the rest of her life with and she's about to walk away without even mentioning him..... yes true love.... would Teyla really want to settle with someone she could walk away from so easily...

I don't think it was because they wanted to believe that Teyla had this happy family, and I'm sorry Blue, but I never saw Teyla googling at Kanaan. If I had, I wouldn't be so upset as to why she's still with the man besides the fact that they have a child together.

When she puts her hand on his chest and looks at him and says "this is our chance"... that doesn't qualify as a "googly" moment then.. ... one moment she's about to walk away without even mentioning him and the next she's staring up at him after he'd refused to help her... didnt she wonder why suddenly when her Team arrive... he can suddenly help... ugh !

I think the whole dilemma for these guys was that they didn't know what to do with Teyla and her child if Kanaan died. For Teyla to leave her son with her people while she's off in missions would have made her seem like a cold and heartless mother

.

Teyla wouldnt be abondoning her son just because she leaves him with a carer or family member.... didnt she say that nothing changed during pregnancy and I would say after as well.. if she was on Athos still.. would she have given up her leadership and protection of her people just because she had a child... she's not from earth and the biggest mistake the writers had with Teyla is turning her into some earth mom ..

Could the writers have done away with Kanaan and still come up with something plausible for Teyla? Of course they could have...they could have come up with another character from her people that could care for Torren. Kanaan's parents perhaps? There were ways, but the bottom line is that I think that was the main reason why the writers opted to leave Kanaan. There's no one in Atlantis that could take care of Jr. even if John swore by it. They all have a job to do and the only ones that could love Torren as much as Teyla and Kanaan....there is no one besides John. That's the reality.

There were plenty who could have looked after Torren... wasnt Teyla raised by Charin... so again not a plausible reason... I stick with my previous notion that the writers just wanted to fob Teyla off in her happy ever after place, so they didnt have to write for her.... she had her happy ending.. eventhough she looked totally miserable most of the time...

But, it can also be argued that if you really think about it how many Athosian children are left parentless and so you would think that the Athosians would be used to this and have some sort of system in place where orphans of parents that have been culled or died would be taken care of. Teyla herself was an orphan so we can assume that most likely Charin was the next closest thing to a family that she had and she must have helped in her upbringing. So, again...there were ways, but the writers shut their minds to it and didn't give it further thought.

Exactly...