John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Doxymom]

From what I have established from watching the show and I'm speaking of episode after episode...I can pretty much stand on firm ground now, of course that can change next season or the season after that, that the Wraith do not have that capabiltiy for human mental manipulation. I mean again the Wraith looked at humans with their trait a threat. I believe it was even mentioned that they can't read the minds of the human..and can't communicate telepathically with them. But in Teyla's case with her Wraith DNA it's possible that she could in some way open a link which makes her vulnerable.

Well, technically, Teyla's human and

Spoiler:

in Michael, he definitely influences her mentally in order to get her to free him. It looked like the ObiWan Kenobi mind control trick and Teyla did not open a link to him first. So she *is* a vulnerabilty and now he, and the Wraith, know it. The question is whether or not they can control her from a long distance, since she can sense them from space. Michael said he could sense she was different immediately.

Now, I agree that they've shown no indication that the Wraith can telepathically read John or any of the others who don't have Teyla's "gift". They do seem to control their motor functions or even pain centers to some degree in order to make them kneel when they don't want to--as John did in Hive.

I still think John may have a little latent telepathy due to his ATA gene--in Tower they said he had it stronger than anyone they'd seen in generations--and may subconsciously be "in tune" with Teyla due to the strength of her gift and a touch of his own. It may not even be enough for the Wraith to sense it.

[Doxymom]

Okay...I'm trying to think up an idea for a Valentine's Day John/Teyla fic and it is not coming to me.... ....darn it!

Fic challenge...unless you write "first year" fic, Teyla has been through two Valentine's Days as of Allies. I challenge you to write a "second year" Valentine's Day fic for Teyla. The first year, John gives her something and explains the meaning of the holiday. The *second* year, Teyla might try to beat him to the gift giving or celebration in order to let him know she remembers and thought of him specifically. Maybe have her combine some Athosian celebration of Life and Family with an Earth Valentine's ritual--and it doesn't have to go well, make her stumble a little and him be sweet about it.

Okay...I'm out of town this weekend to Vegas...leaving Sat...so when everyone watches 'The Tower' try to ponder a fic challenge for it...I like to write fanfic but most times I have no idea where to start and a challenge from someone else just gets the creative flow going!

Spoiler:

In the Tower, John tells Weir at the end that he didn't sleep with Mara and I've heard some cut scenes show him throwing the naked chick out. Did he also explain to Teyla that he didn't sleep with her? Surely she asked what happened while he was gone because she was so worried about him. She probably even met Mara when they all reunited in the end. I'm imagining the type of scene he had with Teyla when he explained about his picnic with Chaya. Or, write the reunion scene with Teyla seeing John again in the Tower with Mara there. I imagine John would be uncomfortable and sometimes his face is as open as a book.

Hope I gave you a couple of ideas. :-)

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

Your right..but I thought it was for fic purposes only. I personally can't see that happening. Unless of course you let's say have Teyla tap into that psychic network and kind of readapt that same possiblity in the Ancient gene and following it from there....

Fics are good. I'd love to see a 'Sheppard/Teyla psychic link' or 'Sheppard is mind-controlled' fic. I can't write one as I am currently working on a BSG fanfic.

From what I have established from watching the show and I'm speaking of episode after episode...I can pretty much stand on firm ground now, of course that can change next season or the season after that, that the Wraith do not have that capabiltiy for human mental manipulation. I mean again the Wraith looked at humans with their trait a threat. I believe it was even mentioned that they can't read the minds of the human..and can't communicate telepathically with them. But in Teyla's case with her Wraith DNA it's possible that she could in some way open a link which makes her vulnerable. But again in the case of let's even say Ford...or Sumner as you mentioned and various other eps with Wraith...we know that they can only influence what the humans due physically and create illusions to manipulate the humans.

Controlling motor functions is mental manipulation. As for the illusions, that's just what they can do from far away, they can do more up close. I agree that Teyla's gene made her a bit more susceptible, less concentration required, but there wouldn't be stories of vampiric mind control else.

But by saying that the Wraith can influence them mentally and take control of their bodies...and that JOhn was resisting is a bit weak to me. I say this mainly because I feel that a Wraith is mentally more superior than humans..mainly in regards to telepathic abilities. Why couldn't the Wraith in 'the Hive' coerce the information mentally out of John....I mean that show was weak..anyway. Because I also wondered why they didnt' torture Teyla/Ford/or Ronon to get to get John to tell about his homeland.. They used another human to get the information. It just doesn't make sense. If the Wraith have strong telepathic abilities, as I'm sure they do, then they would have been able to break down John quite easily or at least in a few hours. But that wasn't the case, it was as if the Queen knew that it was impossible to read his thoughts, as she couldn't....and so she'd have to find other means of achieving her ends... And in the case of Sumner...I mean the Queen didn't get anythi gn out of him...but she was asking questions. She had to again immobilise him physically and then pretty much suck out his energy...but there has been nothign to say that she had control of him mentally.

Actually, the Keeper of the Sleep did indeed get information out of Sumner against his will. As someone else said, he was unprepared unlike Sheppard. I would also find it quite tiresome for Sheppard (the hero) to be immune. The Hive Queen broke off the interrogation and set it up so the girl would question Sheppard because another Hiveship arrived, remember? She had to negotiate with the other queen, as they had set their sights on the same feeding ground.

But again this is just speculation...again in season 3 or maybe even 4, we'll probably see this concept thrown out of the water and that John can be a drone as well.

Indeed.

I mean that could be debatable....Who knew that John's Ancient gene was more powerful than Carson's? I mean Carson only established that he has the ancient gene and so does John....further more, that it can be centralized and injected into other people...and that it 'MIGHT' be succesful, not always. But from the time that John came on the scene his paticular gene was very pronounced and could do more, speaking extensively, than let's say Carson's abilities. And hence the reason that McKay prefers using John over Carson (not only for the fact that he hates doing it). So again my point was..what's to say that it doesn't do something to gene...I wouldn't say alter it..but probably enhance it's capabilities make it a bit more....who knows what...I was just playing around with an idea. Since I feel there are places that could be gone with that. Not to mention Carson has even said they have limited equipment....and not super powerful ones..and they stil haven't figured out all the laboratories used and their purposes in Atlantis...so I'm sure there is more than can be added to thsi whole DNA/gene thing. Again theory...and playing around with a few ideas. No one is infallable!

I take Human Genetics. It would be strictly impossible for Beckett to know every twist and turn of anyone's DNA. Too big. Too easy for stray genetic information to hide in. He didn't even know about Teyla at first, and still doesn't know what makes certain people better at ATA. There's also no such thing as a 100% genetic change when dealing with multiple characteristics on that scale. No matter how far the retrovirus progressed, some human DNA would inevitably have survived, and the other way around too.

[vaberella]

Well, technically, Teyla's human and

Spoiler:

in Michael, he definitely influences her mentally in order to get her to free him. It looked like the ObiWan Kenobi mind control trick and Teyla did not open a link to him first. So she *is* a vulnerabilty and now he, and the Wraith, know it. The question is whether or not they can control her from a long distance, since she can sense them from space. Michael said he could sense she was different immediately.

Now, I agree that they've shown no indication that the Wraith can telepathically read John or any of the others who don't have Teyla's "gift". They do seem to control their motor functions or even pain centers to some degree in order to make them kneel when they don't want to--as John did in Hive.

I still think John may have a little latent telepathy due to his ATA gene--in Tower they said he had it stronger than anyone they'd seen in generations--and may subconsciously be "in tune" with Teyla due to the strength of her gift and a touch of his own. It may not even be enough for the Wraith to sense it.

I'm not denying that Teyla is human. I completely agree that is..my focus is on the magnitude of the Wraith DNA that contributes to various attributes we know and don't know that she has....

Spoiler:

As for the Wraith and 'Michael' as I said in my past posts...I feel that her link to the wraiths were open. Meaning when she is feeling undue emotions that may involve the Wraith and if she's gouging their moves..as i feel she did in the 'Michael' ep during the time they were training. And again I felt the same when she was talking to him as he was tied up. It makes her vulnerable. She also says in 'Allies' that if she opens her link to them..they will be able to tell the position of Atlantis and this is not what she wants to do..or will do. So I think that the only way 'Michael' was able to control was because she had that link open---and this link also automatically connects her to Wraith. This is also seen in 'Instinct' when she said she tried to connect to the Wraith but couldn't...but she knew of Ellia...so there's a link there..but that doesn't mean they can control her on a whim. And also that wouldn't work with the idea that was already said in 'The Gift' where the humans with the gene were considered threats not only by humans but also by Wraiths hence the reason the tests were stopped.

That would mean...that the humans had a lot more that they could do, that they probably did not know of...and that is part of my statement before. Another reason why they were probably just released, since the Wraith scientist didn't think they woudl pose a threat. But what's interesting is this scientist...what was he? Was he even Wraith for that matter? Now we know that the Wraith had worshippers..it would mean that maybe, just maybe it wasn't a wraith doing the tests....hmmmmm...

When Michael said he could sense she was different immediately I felt was a play on words. From the moment that he woke up he sort of remembered her..and it could because when they were looking for a Wraith to capture..it was with Teyla's help they did it. In 'Allies' it was clearly stated that Teyla was aginst Wraith testing..and then in another scene as I mentioend before, she says if she contacts them by hive (which we knew she could be controlled (if they chose too) and contact them by hive from long distances away in 'The Gift')--they would know thier position. It could be this position blinker that she gives out that helped in their capture of him...if not others...like when they used the necklace in 'Suspicion'. And then this was how Michael felt her, or so I think, oh and also the amount of empathy he may have felt. So in that scene that's what I thought he was getting at. And then later on....in that scene in 'Michael' with the soup and her talking to him...that 'emapathy' that was mentioned...and also I feel that 'link' that she turns on and off at times....she was practicing on him to gouge info....like she tried to do with Bob...but it backfired because he took control...

Again this is far more than a vulnerablility as you mention...so much more. I have said this continously in my posts again and again..if their able to control her...with Practice...she might be able to control them. And that will be crazy! Crazy and interesting... But at the moment it's a vulnerability and she knows it. She tries to refrain from opening the link to directly contact a Wraith.

And I agree with you about John...it's debatable..but I would love him to have that ability only because I'm fed up with Midas touch of energy. It's annoying and really overused. It would be an interesting concept and to see if he and Teyla could communicate even more interesting....that would be great... (can you just imagine the sex....okay fic time for me to attack)!

That would also help out John's team if he master's it where he can talk to other people who have the same gene therapy that succesfully took...that would help in their missions....ooh this gets better and better.

[vaberella]

Controlling motor functions is mental manipulation. As for the illusions, that's just what they can do from far away, they can do more up close. I agree that Teyla's gene made her a bit more susceptible, less concentration required, but there wouldn't be stories of vampiric mind control else.

I agree with you. I was focusing on the level of mental manipulation that was done in 'Michael'...but you are right. I actually have to start posting on that vampire topic on another thread....I do like that comparison. But I wonder to what extent Teyla could do the same with practice. Think Blade----he's a hybrid...^_^

Actually, the Keeper of the Sleep did indeed get information out of Sumner against his will. As someone else said, he was unprepared unlike Sheppard. I would also find it quite tiresome for Sheppard (the hero) to be immune. The Hive Queen broke off the interrogation and set it up so the girl would question Sheppard because another Hiveship arrived, remember? She had to negotiate with the other queen, as they had set their sights on the same feeding ground.

Your right....they get info (didn't notice that until I rewatched the ep...excuse my earlier disagreement with that! But why not Shep (like in 'The Hive'---maybe continuity is a problem? Which I doubt.). Now I'm wondering how effective this 'ATA' gene for that to happen. This definitely proves that John may have some serious abilities telepathically. And your right..I think I have problems with the perpetual and unfallable hero...at least they give Shep some depth at times like in 'The Lost Boys' and 'Hot Zone', sorta.

I take Human Genetics. It would be strictly impossible for Beckett to know every twist and turn of anyone's DNA. Too big. Too easy for stray genetic information to hide in. He didn't even know about Teyla at first, and still doesn't know what makes certain people better at ATA. There's also no such thing as a 100% genetic change when dealing with multiple characteristics on that scale. No matter how far the retrovirus progressed, some human DNA would inevitably have survived, and the other way around too.

*Applause* I completely agree with you.

[Cpt. Ritter]

Oops! I did that to put this thread on my subscribe list but then when I went to delete it my computer crashed! Sorry to have left it here to confuse you.

As I was saying to one of the other mods, I originally started to monitor this thread as a mod, but after months of reading it I'm now seeing Shep/Teyla ship whenever I watch an episode! There sure is a lot of it

We have a tendency to do that? Do you see the LIGHT?

Jake Blues: YES, I SEE THE LIGHT!

[Cpt. Ritter]

Spoiler:

HE THROWS HER OUT! YES SHEP, GOOD SHEP. I've got a slightly different take on that myself that I'll probably write a quick fanfic on.

Of course any challenge for The Tower has to be Shep/Teyla.

[vaberella]

What spoiiler is that Ritter what are you talking about?

____________________________________________________

Purpleyin..your from the UK----I used to live there...I miss there (my home, and the only I really see as such)...miss me mates...tears**

[Purpleyin]

I dont' kow about that comment that Teyla has such a minute amount of 'Wraith' I have not seen that mentioned. I have heard that she does have the paticular gene. And if it was so minute she wouldn't be able to tap into Wraith mind and infiltrate their hive ships through mental communication. Not to mention she has an enormous amount strength..she threw Ford off her back with one arm...I mean come on...I think they've pretty much told us that it's far from Minute..but not enough that she has their facial characteristics and she was able to block out their talking. while some had it very pronounced.

I'm going on what Beckett said, maybe minute wasn't the right word exactly but he implies it's not much - not much more than the difference between an average human and a human with ATA. They've never really said much about ATA gene, but it can't be hideously complex overall if they've got artificial ATA (unless the replication, the synthetic gene, is only basic... and could account for Rodney not necessarill being great at ATA tech mentally.) Script is from tvtwiz transcripts of Atlantis - The Gift.

BECKETT: It was very easy to miss. In fact, I couldn’t even make the kind of comparison necessary to isolate the specific strand. We needed Wraith cells, which we eventually got, (Teyla sighs and looks away) but then we need a full mapping of the genetic code contained within those cells, which wasn’t even fifty percent complete ...
TEYLA: Please! (Elizabeth and Carson look at each other again.) Tell me.
BECKETT: You have some Wraith DNA in your genetic make-up.

CONFERENCE ROOM. Elizabeth and Carson are breaking the news to John, Rodney and Aiden.
SHEPPARD: You’re saying Teyla’s part-Wraith?!
BECKETT: A very small part.
WEIR (to John): Which makes her about as different from us as you, because of the Ancient gene you possess.

How is empathy seen as a power?! Where did this come from....I mean normal humans can read the emotions of other people...what's the big deal?!

I was speaking of empathic in the scifi sense, not the general reading body language etc - like the ability of Diana Troi on ST: TNG, not just interpreting emotions from what is apparent but sensing them in a more sure way, the inbetween of mental abilities - not as developed as telepathy, but more than nothing. Anyway, I was suggesting that maybe Teyla could be empathic in this way, possibly. I'm not sure exactly how likely or believable it would be, depends on what Wraith powers exist and could be confered to her in some way.

I think we've already established that it is inherent in the ancient gene..remember 'The Siege II' when that general said to John...'I've had the gene therapy too Major' so I think it's pretty much well known that it's in the gene itself..not necessairly those who have inherited the gene. They would of course have the capabilities of lighting things up like bulbs...but I don't find that this is anything of a Mental ability.

Somehow something has to be going on to get the you think of something and it happens effects of the tech - but overall I don't believe the gene has anything to do with telepathy etc, my belief is that the Ancient powers are simply related to Ascension - that ATA only gives ability to use the tech and not likely anything more, hence any ability of Shep would have to based on him meditating or whatever is the way upon the path of ascension.

I mean I don't know about thoughts for the Ancients..maybe they can talk to each other mentally...

Well, there's the odd scene at the start of Rising with two Ancients not saying anything physically that always struck me as them communicating, and in SG-1 Ayianna could read minds as far as I remember.

There's nothing in 'Epiphany' to say that John doesn't to want to ascend eventually..he just said he was good where he was at...and he's not ready for any of that right now. Who knows about down teh path..? And as for ascending Wraith? I'm unsure if that happens...it could be a possiblity though..I guess...I just dont' see where. As for Teyla ascending..I dont' know if she'd follow that path..she seems like she would find that unworthy of her, she's so....simple. And I think she'd rather be into dying like Charin amongst her people than really following the path of ascension....

I didn't mean she would ascend, just that out of all of the main cast she seems the most likely to suceed - the calmest for the most part, patient, all qualities I think she has most of compared to Shep, Ronon, McKay, or Weir. I wouldn't imagine she'd want to though, as it'd be abandonning her people and her friends on Atlantis too, in a time need and also just generally.

But back on the ship stuff...

What stuff do people hope to see in Season 3? Personally I'd like them to have some friendship scenes for the pair (more can always be read out of them ), when not off-world or on a mission/project, that don't involve sticks. Something involving the Athosians perhaps, to show Teyla in relation to them and Shep getting a better sense of who she is through that.

[vaberella]

Okay I think we agreed on many points Purpleyin so yeah....I agree with you..

Oh as for what to see ship wise...not much shippyness maybe just lot of implying....

Maybe seeing more of Teyla's expressions and worry like in 'Allies', 'Aurora' and 'Inferno'...more of the same on Shep's side...like in 'Allies', 'Instinct', 'Conversion'....oooh and more like the 'TLG'...nothing else though. Oh and maybe the use of Doxymom's idea of possible telepathy if they want to throw that out there..between our fave couple...that would be interesting.

Maybe a comment or too...

I would love to see more fight scenes as everyone has said before..I would also like to see Teyla training both Zalenka and maybe McKay...I just think that would be funny. I definitely nee more of McKay with Teyla..


Oooh..another good thing...is if TPTB wants to make Weir okay for me..by having her take lessons with Teyla...and definitely off world or on world relationship with Weir/Teyla... And I mean serious contacts... like more than just 2 sentences..and maybe some time off on a balcony talking about the leadership and also about companionship...that would be just bloody amazing. Giving me some outlook on Weir..and also more on Teyla...what more could you ask for.

Or even a night out----or to see that ladies poker night that Cadman was talking about? You know with everyone teaching Teyla, Weir there, Cadman, and even Kate: Oh my gosh that would be the greatest..and them talking about guys..who funny would that be!! You know we would all love that.

I also would like to see some more Weir/McKay scenes...I really like the pairing like seen in 'Home' and how they view one another...somthing more like that...would be cool. Actually weir with all the men.. I felt so far she's really opening herself up to Ronon and his abilities..so that's gonna be interesting to see where they want to go with that.

I'm also all about seeing McKay/Ronon...so I know their heading there and that's gonna be really cool to see and what happens....I can't wait really!!

I woul also like to see Ford come back...that would be awesome..

[Doxymom]

Spoiler:

HE THROWS HER OUT! YES SHEP, GOOD SHEP. I've got a slightly different take on that myself that I'll probably write a quick fanfic on.

Of course any challenge for The Tower has to be Shep/Teyla.

That's not in the version they aired, CR, but I was told it was in the original script then cut for time.

[Cpt. Ritter]

What spoiiler is that Ritter what are you talking about

Doxy posted something about it being a cut scene, either way, I'm writing something to that effect (well, not exactly) after I see the episode. As for my limited posting, I can't keep up VB, too much information for me to process at the end of a long day. I just try to make a good couple of post, but you and PurpleYin are writing essays in posts.

Anyway, I'd love to see more Shep/Teyla in season 3 (do I really have to say that) I'd love the Zelenka/McKay relationship... Teyla/Weir friendship, ohh most definitly. Mainly, I want stuff we can go "SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" over. Little looks, some stressing out because the other is hurt. (Those make my day)

And Doxy, I know its not the in the aired episode.

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

Your right....they get info (didn't notice that until I rewatched the ep...excuse my earlier disagreement with that! But why not Shep (like in 'The Hive'---maybe continuity is a problem? Which I doubt.). Now I'm wondering how effective this 'ATA' gene for that to happen. This definitely proves that John may have some serious abilities telepathically. And your right..I think I have problems with the perpetual and unfallable hero...at least they give Shep some depth at times like in 'The Lost Boys' and 'Hot Zone', sorta.

Well, as I pointed out, in her first scene the Hive Queen was distracted by the arrival of another ship shortly after beginning the interrogation (Sheppard didn't give her any straight answers but sounded like he was under some kind of pressure) and had to negotiate with the other queen. And in her second scene Sheppard told her what she took to be the truth.

[Annie Sheppard]

hi

Spoiler:

In the Tower, John tells Weir at the end that he didn't sleep with Mara and I've heard some cut scenes show him throwing the naked chick out. Did he also explain to Teyla that he didn't sleep with her? Surely she asked what happened while he was gone because she was so worried about him. She probably even met Mara when they all reunited in the end. I'm imagining the type of scene he had with Teyla when he explained about his picnic with Chaya. Or, write the reunion scene with Teyla seeing John again in the Tower with Mara there. I imagine John would be uncomfortable and sometimes his face is as open as a book.

Hope I gave you a couple of ideas. :-)

Spoiler:

sorry but did I miss something when was watching this ep?? I was so shocke with his behaviour that I must watch it twice but I don't remember such scenes... "the throw the naked chick out scene"...eee this never happened in this ep...no...sincerely it isn't known if he slept with her or not...the scene ends when they fall together in his bed so you can only guess what happened next...and at the end Shep said to Weir only:
SHEPPARD:... I even got the girl.
WEIR: You got the girl?!
SHEPPARD: Well, I mean I could have got the girl. I turned her down.
WEIR: What did you offer them in return for the drones and the Jumpers?
....
WEIR: They didn’t offer you King?!
SHEPPARD: I turned that down too!

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

hi
sorry but did I miss something when was watching this ep?? I was so shocke with his behaviour that I must watch it twice but I don't remember such scenes... "the throw the naked chick out scene"...eee this never happened in this ep...no...sincerely it isn't known if he slept with her or not...the scene ends when they fall together in his bed so you can only guess what happened next... [/spoiler]

Cut scene. The person you responded to Said it was a Cut scene.