John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Black Panther]

Good point BP... she does seperate his name above the others in that episode. Shippy SQUEEEEEEE!

What makes it stand out is that John isn't the leader of the Atlantis expedition. Unlike when people say John Sheppard's team. If it was said in the same context it would have been "Elizabeth Weir and her people..."

[sanssong]

This ep doesn't have any overt shippy moments. This ep mainly shows the way they interact with each other and the way they play off each other.

As is their habit when something big happens they tend to draw close to the other and glance at each other. This happens when they find out the Genii are not what they seem. They sit next to each other during the meeting with the Genii and the dinner. They walk and stand next to each other and there were plenty of glances during these scenes.

Great observations... I agree with you about the mostly non-shippy stuff here, but love your point about getting closer to one another when things go south. They DO do this and I didn't realize how much till you pointed it out. In fact as I've been watching the marathon today, I've seen it happen over and over again. Most noticibly in The Hive and Ephiphany.

[Jeyla4ever]

=Black Panther]
Teyla, Tyrus, and Sora are talking of how they suprised each other. Sora mentions that she never thought Teyla would leave her people. Teyla: No, I do this for them. John Sheppard and his people have brought new hope to our stars, Sora. They have the spirit of explorers and the hearts of warriors. They have accepted me. You can here the admiration in Teyla's voice as she says this. It is interesting how she says John Sheppard and his people... Like she is separating him from the rest. He is in a class of his own.

This is a great observation...never even noticed that detail...you are AWESOME! and yes, just another proof that Teyla stayed behind for her people and continues to stay because also she respects and trust John completely....and vice versa...

Fantastic work BP..just fantastic! We should compile these moments and have them under our sigs so others can just "click" and read our shippy moments...and why we love these two!


Okay, gotta go..watching the marathon! loving it!

[Padme18]

I agree Camy, BP makes a good point. They do seem to lean towards one another when things go bad.

And we should compile all the moments into a list so people can stop saying that they are just friends.

[sanssong]

I agree Camy, BP makes a good point. They do seem to lean towards one another when things go bad.

And we should compile all the moments into a list so people can stop saying that they are just friends.

We do have that actually- (and contrary to our little joke you don't need shippy glasses to see them. I actually started that when I posted a review of TLG- I stated that these folks must have some sort of speical shipper glasses to see what they're seeing- cause I sure didn't see it!)

Anyway- BP has complied tons of shippy moments into one post I'm sure we can dig up the link for you! As for convincing those other folks that J/T are more than just friends, you can try but until you can pry those glasses off of them, it's not gonna happen.

[sanssong]

One thing I noticed when watching Conversion again, was the choices that John was making as he became more and more inlfluenced by the bug gene. It seemed to peel off layer after layer of his human self control till there was little or none left. He nearly killed several people- in including Weir and Ronon But in all that mess, he never once tried to hurt Teyla although he had the chance more than once. And in the end she was the only one who could hold his attention and get him to do what they needed him to do. I like to think of it as soothing the savage beast!

You could just tell that his human remnet was screaming out his care and attachment for her and still had that special connection that they share. I think it was THAT that kept him from harming her- something instinctual kept her safe around him.

But of course the end when John is himself again is the most telling for me. And I know we've squeed over it a million times, but the first place he came after Carson turned him lose was to Teyla to make sure he hadn't ruined what they had. The writers felt it was important for us to see that- strange that they didn't think his apology to Liz or Ronon (for trying to kill them!)ranked up there with it. The reason being that TPTB meant Conversion to establish in the veiwers minds John's attraction to Teyla so they could continue to build on this relationship as they have for the first season and this one.

Oooo!!! Can't wait for S3!

[Jeyla4ever]

I agree with you, Suz....

I was just watching TLG and it's so similar to Conversion...here again, we see a different John but who is still able to somehow communicate with

Spoiler:

Thalen and convince him of a couple of things....perfect example was when he told Ronon that Sheppard was screaming to him after Ronon got shot by Weir/Phoebus.....so, John was totally communicating with Thalen, he just didn't have any control of his actions...Another proof was when Weir was telling John in the infirmary in the last scene how she was also screaming but no one could hear her....so they were conscious throughout the entire thing and they saw everything that happened.....

But, going back to the point where John doesn't harm Teyla...he even protected her twice in TLG...and this had to be somehow, again, John talking to Thalen...in his mind....In the scene where Teyla is about to shoot Weir, you see that John is very aware of her presence...thus I really believe that the person he was referring to that he was concerned about, was Teyla....you can see that he knew that was Teyla and he purposefully set the stunner to stun and not to shoot....if he hadn't Pheobus would have shot Teyla just like she did for Ronon...but somehow, whatever John said in his mind to Thalen must have affected him because he allowed Weir/Phoebus to shoot Ronon and John must have said something before...fully knowing Thalen's plan to have Weir/Phoebus shoot Ronon....so, I can only guess that John must have said something pretty deep and convincing to have Thalen protect and avoid Teyla getting shot by Weir/Phoebus...thus in that infamous scene, Thalen says to Teyla...he cares for you more than you know....John must have not only screamed something to Thalen, but he must have said something that impressed Thalen so much, that instead of allowing Weir/Phoebus to shoot Teyla like he did Ronon, he stunned her instead thus protecting her in the end! Jeepers, am I making any sense?

The second time, it was John who protected her...by shooting Weir/Phoebus..and Teyla knew that no matter which one of the two it was, Thalen or John, either way they would both shoot Weir undoubtely...and she was right! John didn't even flinch to shoot her! of coarse, he knew he was just going to stun her! but in the end, it reveals once more how much Teyla cares and knows John and vice versa....

YIPPEEEEE

I love that episode..and the other thing I was going to comment about this episode is that it's interesting how in

Spoiler:

this kiss between John and Weir, the actually taping of the kiss is extremely brief and the camera focuses more on the reactions of the witnesses, Rodney, Caldwell and Beckett and don't even show John's/Thalen's reaction as Weir/Phoebus is kissing him.....thus two things here...the kiss between John and Teyla in Conversion was very intimate and very private....in a very personal setting for them....and we get to see both of their reactions before, during and after the kiss....
whereas with this kiss in TLG...it's very public, even comical to Rodney and Beckett, and no reaction per say between the two of them....add to that the fact that John and Teyla discussed the incident afterwards...showing the importance of these two and how much it means to them not to let this interfere with their relationship..thus showing the deeper feelings there..and nothing of that sort was shown for John and Weir besides again, Caldwell finding it amusing, and Weir wanting to just pretend that it never even happened....and so did John...he actually kept looking at her.....not even acknowledging that it happened.....

[Jeyla4ever]

I guess Annie is not around today....I will post pics for The Storm later on...

[sanssong]

I agree with you, Suz....

I was just watching TLG and it's so similar to Conversion...here again, we see a different John but who is still able to somehow communicate with

Spoiler:

Thalen and convince him of a couple of things....perfect example was when he told Ronon that Sheppard was screaming to him after Ronon got shot by Weir/Phoebus.....so, John was totally communicating with Thalen, he just didn't have any control of his actions...Another proof was when Weir was telling John in the infirmary in the last scene how she was also screaming but no one could hear her....so they were conscious throughout the entire thing and they saw everything that happened.....

But, going back to the point where John doesn't harm Teyla...he even protected her twice in TLG...and this had to be somehow, again, John talking to Thalen...in his mind....In the scene where Teyla is about to shoot Weir, you see that John is very aware of her presence...thus I really believe that the person he was referring to that he was concerned about, was Teyla....you can see that he knew that was Teyla and he purposefully set the stunner to stun and not to shoot....if he hadn't Pheobus would have shot Teyla just like she did for Ronon...but somehow, whatever John said in his mind to Thalen must have affected him because he allowed Weir/Phoebus to shoot Ronon and John must have said something before...fully knowing Thalen's plan to have Weir/Phoebus shoot Ronon....so, I can only guess that John must have said something pretty deep and convincing to have Thalen protect and avoid Teyla getting shot by Weir/Phoebus...thus in that infamous scene, Thalen says to Teyla...he cares for you more than you know....John must have not only screamed something to Thalen, but he must have said something that impressed Thalen so much, that instead of allowing Weir/Phoebus to shoot Teyla like he did Ronon, he stunned her instead thus protecting her in the end! Jeepers, am I making any sense?

The second time, it was John who protected her...by shooting Weir/Phoebus..and Teyla knew that no matter which one of the two it was, Thalen or John, either way they would both shoot Weir undoubtely...and she was right! John didn't even flinch to shoot her! of coarse, he knew he was just going to stun her! but in the end, it reveals once more how much Teyla cares and knows John and vice versa....

YIPPEEEEE

I love that episode..and the other thing I was going to comment about this episode is that it's interesting how in

Spoiler:

this kiss between John and Weir, the actually taping of the kiss is extremely brief and the camera focuses more on the reactions of the witnesses, Rodney, Caldwell and Beckett and don't even show John's/Thalen's reaction as Weir/Phoebus is kissing him.....thus two things here...the kiss between John and Teyla in Conversion was very intimate and very private....in a very personal setting for them....and we get to see both of their reactions before, during and after the kiss....
whereas with this kiss in TLG...it's very public, even comical to Rodney and Beckett, and no reaction per say between the two of them....add to that the fact that John and Teyla discussed the incident afterwards...showing the importance of these two and how much it means to them not to let this interfere with their relationship..thus showing the deeper feelings there..and nothing of that sort was shown for John and Weir besides again, Caldwell finding it amusing, and Weir wanting to just pretend that it never even happened....and so did John...he actually kept looking at her.....not even acknowledging that it happened.....

I understood you perfectly Camy! And I completely agree- there is always something in John that seeks to protect and guard Teyla that isn't evidenced with any of the other members of the expedition. (Well- perhaps with the exception of Rodney- but it's a different sort of protection. Like a big brother watching out for his less-than-able-to take of himself younger brother.) *snort* Poor Rodney!

One thing I love about Teyla now that we're talking about reacting to things- is how she reacts when John is in any kind of danger- she always looks panicked. Now she never lets it interfere with what needs to be done because that's the kind of leader she is, but you can just see in her face how she feels about anything happening to him. Those moments reveal how deep her feelings for him run. And we know that other team members see it. Bates saw it, thus his comments to John or two occasions in S1, Caldwell's seen it,

Spoiler:

why else would he tell Teyla he wouldn't tell her what to do when she was faced with sacrificing John for hundreds of others. He knew the choice would be an extrememly hard one for her. Then of course Weir has seen it, Phoebus told us that Weir wasn't surprised that Teyla was the one to catch John.

I used to teach acting and one of the ways I told my students to find out about their character was from what OTHER characters said about them. You can discover a lot that way- and this is no exception.

And I don't know about anyone else, but it really really made me angry in Conversion when

Spoiler:

Weir just gave up on getting what Carson needed for John to recover. It was like she just didn't care if John died or not. The rest of John's team - including Teyla wanted to go- you could see how it killed them to give up.

[vaberella]

One thing I noticed when watching Conversion again, was the choices that John was making as he became more and more inlfluenced by the bug gene. It seemed to peel off layer after layer of his human self control till there was little or none left. He nearly killed several people- in including Weir and Ronon But in all that mess, he never once tried to hurt Teyla although he had the chance more than once. And in the end she was the only one who could hold his attention and get him to do what they needed him to do. I like to think of it as soothing the savage beast!

You could just tell that his human remnet was screaming out his care and attachment for her and still had that special connection that they share. I think it was THAT that kept him from harming her- something instinctual kept her safe around him.

But of course the end when John is himself again is the most telling for me. And I know we've squeed over it a million times, but the first place he came after Carson turned him lose was to Teyla to make sure he hadn't ruined what they had. The writers felt it was important for us to see that- strange that they didn't think his apology to Liz or Ronon (for trying to kill them!)ranked up there with it. The reason being that TPTB meant Conversion to establish in the veiwers minds John's attraction to Teyla so they could continue to build on this relationship as they have for the first season and this one.

Oooo!!! Can't wait for S3!

I've been meaning to talk about this for a long time. I have read rants from fellow jt shippers who have a tone of apology within their defense of Conversion. Now this is not another rant, this is a final refutation so people can shut up and get their eyes open and pay attention.

When people say that our ship is dead what is the claim?!

Spoiler:

The claim is that Teyla was 'raped'---(which I will discuss later) for their lack of a better word; since it was against her will. I may not have been keen on the kiss in Conversion but I will have something to say about it, and taking into account the commentary by Gero, DH and JF.

'Rape' is a word one shouldn't be taken lightly and should not be said lightly. Teyla is not a defenseless person and if she wanted him off her, she would have flattened him. I won't deny she was shocked and as JF said in the commentary, 'She has that stop it, some more look.' I can see that, because there are three clearly cut scenes in that kiss. In the beginning of the kiss Teyla didn't seem adverse to it, she seemed shocked. Then in the second cut, Teyla is clearly responding, and touching John back, check it out if you don't believe me. It was later on we see her pull her hand back, and we can assume the shock came to realization. Which says she's obviously knowing that something is wrong with John, and they shouldn't or wouldn't have been doing that, if he was okay, and it looks like she wanted to kick herself for allowing it to continue. This is nothing in a negative light....but a woman who probably hasn't or isn't ready to define their relationship.

Now he may have assaulted her, but this was the point of the story. That wasn't necessarily John as in John the Military Head of Atlantis who was in his right mind. He was lucid but it was a John who was having his INHIBITIONS broken down, little by little, and pretty amazed and impressed by his sudden agility and strength. He probably thought he was near like Genghis Kahn, or Samson or something. It's John without a concious and one whom understands only NEED, WANT and TAKE!!

What does that mean?! He, as in JOHN SHEPPARD, had wanted to kiss Teyla and this allowed him to do that without really any thought to repurcussions, but it can be said that Teyla figured someting was wrong. This was a John Sheppard who didn't care about his personal reasons or even Teyla's, when considering a growth in their bond---and no one can deny there is a bond (if you do, then I suggest you watch Rising, Home, and Suspicion, just for S1. As mentioned in our past posts, cause you need a clue!). This is just a man who wanted a woman and took what he ALWAYS wanted.

Now for those who think our ship is dead....let me put up an example of what is a DEAD ship. When a man takes a woman by the throat and almost chokes her to death. Please, please don't say he didn't do it..and he was being careful. I am sure I was not the ONLY one to see Weir falling on the ground, and trying to catch her breath through her excessive coughing as she's speaking into the radio to get people after buggy John. We all saw that. No matter the ship or the viewer. You don't talk around that, you don't walk around that. He was choking her. That's ATTEMPTED MURDER. If he squeezed for longer or pressed harder, he would have either snapped her neck or killed her. Admittedly, he did catch himself in time, but he was aggressive to the point of killing. We all know Teyla wasn't about to be killed. See, that's death!

Yes, that was him in an advanced case, and people can come to the defense that he stopped himself. Comments like, he was so advanced he didn't know what he was doing. Get real! Why do I say that? Let's fast forward to when Teyla and her team are looking for Shep..and he's crawling up the wall. John took out about 5-6 soldiers with guns, if not more!!! He could have taken out Teyla, her gun meant nothing; her measly attempt at being threatening means nothing.

She's 5'2" with a gun, he's 6'2" with 50 lbs on her, and vast super human powers and skill at this level in the transformation; now he's stronger than her! When he took out 5 trained marines with guns in close proximity. Teyla was no threat at this point, but John was to her. John could have taken that gun from Teyla and hurt her, if not kill her. But he choose not too. He actually ran away..ran..he didn't jump away, he didn't climb back up the walls. He ran away to keep from hurting her. When he almost came close to killing Weir. He didn't lay a hand on Teyla, when he was holding Weir by the neck and squeezing. This is to show how even as advanced his case was...he didn't do to Teyla, what he did to Weir.

Explain to me what ship is dead based on Conversion? It's definitely not John and Teyla; further testament to that is when he goes and apologizes to Teyla. He doesn't go to the woman he nearly killed. He could have killed her, and he did choke her. You can talk missing scene, but no one mentioned that there was a scene missing, not even in the commentary. Scenes were cut intentionally. John went and apologized to TEYLA...not Weir....TEYLA. He just took a kiss from her..when he could have killed Weir. Yet, it's Teyla who recieves an apology.

Just try to speak to me abut a dead ship. But let's not stop there, we see in The Long Goodbye---when Shep completely ignores Weir at the end? He's in a bed next to her and decides the Tetris game (or whatever he was doing) was far more interesting. He didn't even glance at Weir. I don't think that's love!

Let's move on...rewind to the scene where Thalen intentionally changes the program on Ronon's gun from stun to kill, after he shoots Teyla and goes after Phoebus. So he's going after Phoebus to kill her and he just stuns Teyla. Why? Yes, yes, I believe that John had a little something to do with that and was protecting Teyla, that means he didn't want Teyla dead. There were many moments in the scenes, after Ronon is taken down where John had Teyla in his midst, and didn't touch her.

Let's do a little fast forward...it was TEYLA that Thalen says 'He cares for you more than you know!'

This was not to the camera above Teyla's head as I've heard time and time again (DELUSIONAL MUCH!). This is Teyla with a gun to his head...Thalen says to her, implicitly, that John is the one who cares for her more than she knows. There is no changing that scene around to fit your own ship, it's there and it's blatant--John is said to care for Teyla, no one else!

This is where there's a massive difference between Teyla and John's relationship on any level; compared to the obvious non-romantic relationship of John and Weir.

So I'd like to know how one claims a kiss, as death of a ship; when obviously attempted murder is a bit more morbid...not even followed by an apology! Who can apologize to attempted murder, though?

VB

[Jeyla4ever]

Oh, VB...*Camy puts her hand over VB's shoulders*

I think I'm gonna cry! This was just..just...just..beautiful!

*Camy throws herself to VB as she weeps for joy*

Now, let's stick to the schedule! The Storm today...The Eye tomorrow....

[4prettierships]

Wow this thread is sure hard to keep up with lately! I don't post for a couple days and there are tons of pages to catch up on!

VB- WOW!! Amazing points!! I completely agree on all of it and quite frankly, I have no more to add!! Awesome job explaining what happened in Conversion and TLG as being J/T

[4prettierships]

I'm quite pleased to share with you all what I think is one of my better creations.. I really like the way this turned out, and while Teyla is not acutally IN it, the words tell the story well enough.. without further explanation.... An "Eye" WP!

[vaberella]

I'm quite pleased to share with you all what I think is one of my better creations.. I really like the way this turned out, and while Teyla is not acutally IN it, the words tell the story well enough.. without further explanation.... An "Eye" WP!
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...eBackcopy2.jpg[

Oh my god 4PS oh did I tell you your Shipper of the Month...?! Congrats!!

4ps June Shipper of the Month!!

This is the color scheme for the J/T hub. I have to send that out or I might ask you to do it...it's tentative but that's the color scheme I want. That is bloody gorgeous..did I ever tell you my favorite color is the rainbow..so this is making me happy. It's gorgeous 4PS. I didn't have a shipper of the month for last month did I. Darn it! I really love the work and the color..this is what I want. I'll give credit it to you 4PS for the HUB colour coordination.

Thank you for the compliment Camy and 4PS....I have to clean it up for better readability. I see I made some punctuation errors.

VB

[HyperCaz]

Ok I have a thought! *dun dun dun* Actually the discussion in the shweir thread transferred this thought to my brain...but it's still a thought...

season 3 spoilers

Spoiler:

In season 3, Woolsey will be in Atlantis, right? I remember discussing with some of you on MSN that all the antagonists of the show were no longer used (especially our favourite sheyla device, Bates). What if Woolsey was the new sheyla device? He definitely causes a stir...imagine what he would say if he saw some of thar them "personal feelings" that Bates saw...

not particularly interesting today, sorry.