John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Annie Sheppard]

[Jeyla4ever]

you're welcome Camy... bye hon...

Yeah, I did say I was leaving, didn't I? but this thread is intoxicating!

you do have more Home pics, right?

that is one of my ultimate favorite episoded from SGA1...

I have another question...in Home...when John figures out that it was all part of the Aliens doing...when he says to Teyla...I thought that was you....what does he mean by that? Is he referring that he knew that this had to be the real Teyla because "his imaginative Teyla" would have been different? What would his imaginative Teyla been like? What would "she" have done vs the actions of the "real" Teyla in Home?

What did John have in mind for "imaginative Teyla" that the real Teyla wouldn't or didn't do? and when do you think he figured out that Teyla was not the Teyla he would have imagined?

Now, venture....if Teyla had an imaginative John...what would he be like? and what would she have done with him on Earth?

Let me see some creative thoughts here .....

[Annie Sheppard]

[Annie Sheppard]

[Annie Sheppard]

[Annie Sheppard]

[Annie Sheppard]

okay thats all for today from me... I have tomorrow and on Wednesday my last two exams so I don't know when I'll be back. Maybe i'll stop by but I'm not sure. I have to go to sleep now (it's pretty late here)
So I have fun guys...

[bella]

Nice work Annie.
Storm missing scene: Where were Shep and Teyla coming back from in the first scene? I know they mentioned something about the Athosians. Was he just her chaffeur picking her up or had they been somewhere together?

[Jeyla4ever]

Annie...fantastic work...Love those pics...

I"ve always wondered why John has a shirt and a long sleeve jacket..while Teyla has a very revealing and sexy shirt on...?


EDITED:
It's interesting how she chosed this top....now wonder John commented her on the top....I wonder if he would have thought of her wearing that or something else....and the skirt...huh....was she trying to make John admire her legs....kind of very loose outfit if you ask me...I mean that is a far stretched outfit from her regular Athosian attire, don't you think? I thought the entire episode was hilarious...and they both revealed a very different loose side of themselves that they hardly ever show... Teyla really wanted to be with John and wanted only to be with John there.....I thought she was a bit dissapointed inthe end there...too.......I do hope she gets to go to Earth and that John will really show her around....heheheheeh

[vaberella]

Annie...fantastic work...Love those pics...

I"ve always wondered why John has a shirt and a long sleeve jacket..while Teyla has a very revealing and sexy shirt on...?


EDITED:
It's interesting how she chosed this top....now wonder John commented her on the top....I wonder if he would have thought of her wearing that or something else....and the skirt...huh....was she trying to make John admire her legs....kind of very loose outfit if you ask me...I mean that is a far stretched outfit from her regular Athosian attire, don't you think? I thought the entire episode was hilarious...and they both revealed a very different loose side of themselves that they hardly ever show... Teyla really wanted to be with John and wanted only to be with John there.....I thought she was a bit dissapointed inthe end there...too.......I do hope she gets to go to Earth and that John will really show her around....heheheheeh

Well I don't think John went with her to choose clothing. So that outfit was chosen by John. She woudln't really know what kind of garb is 'human' and would probably have went for an outfit similar to her own on Athos. So to fit in...John probably imagined that outfit and I get the feeling he was imagining Teyla in earth wear for a while; and suggested she picked up something like that. I figure John was very aware that he was projecting thoughts since during their ride in the limo he said something was very wrong. So that outfit definitely came from his thoughts. Probably everything else she chose.

I get the feeling..and I'll write this in the challenge that was issued, that Teyla probably wouldn't have bought those things that she was carrying...and of course had no money nor anyway of knowing how that would work. I think he projected these ideas of shopping onto her..I think Teyla would be more awed by the outside world than what was going on in a mall...ie. Mannequin---if you ever noticed the way she acted in the new world. Clothing was of least interest---and the world around her from cars, to stillettos, and of course food like gyros and pizza would be of far more interest to her. Don't get me wrong--she would like the clothing..but i felt Teyla was far more comfortable with her surroundings than I would have thought.

As for other scenarios that would have him kick himself,...I pictured him showing her the bedroom---and whatever ensues.
VB

[vaberella]

Oh, guys..sorry for the confusion! Annie noticed that I'd missed Underground...so yesterday was both Poisoning the Well and Underground...I will post pics for Home today...and I also have a question for discussion later on when I post the transcript for the episode...
YIPEE...

BELLA, that PTW wallpaper is TOTALLY SUPERB!

I can't wait till we compile all of these episode by episode and see how many from each episode we have! WOW...ABC's Cards..and now Episode by Episode Wallpaper creations! YIPEE! we can't get any better than this....

On another topic...Tielan wrote this fic, kind of like one of my favorites from her collections, To Serve a Queen....Now, TSAQ was very much Elizabeth and Ronon but the John and Teyla on the side was just so deep and so wonderful even in its subtleness that I loved that fic....but this new one that she wrote...I don't know....I like it....I mean her writing is wonderful...but I just don't see this as John or Teyla........and I'm wondering if in writing too much of them in other scenarios, writers tend to loose the voices of the characters.....I know that I gave a shot at one and I totally lost all the characters voice! so, hmmm....is it better to just stick to missing scenes from episodes...? people tend to do better at those and still maintain the essence of the characters in the show.....just some food for thoughts....
<snip>

When one is a fanfiction writer there is always room to expand and play with the characters. You know the characters based on what you've seen, you're given the foundation....but interpretation will shift the outlook. There's room to develop them with explanation and test their lengths and bring them into more humanistic situations; but the range is not as wide as when the character is an OC.

This is what I like to do..I like focusing on the real than the unreal. On the small things that keep life moving---than the bigger picture. Much the same reason why I adore Microeconomics and hate Macroeconomics (although I'm a brain in that as well ). So when a writer and a good writer takes the characters and hears the 'voice' of the character it doesn't matter the situation they can make it work. This is not to say your a bad writer if you can't do that. But sometimes you lose yourself within the story than within the characters.

Let me see if I can explain that. To lose yourself in the story is too look at the bigger picture and pretty much see the story in the realm of the 'basic romance novel'. Beginning, middle, and end---and we have know we will have the antagonist, the protaganist, the hero, the heroine, the romance, the indecision, and of course the climatic end *tongue-in-cheek*. Like all romance novels there is no real development sometimes, there is nothing within the characters to really grab the reader unless a substantial amount of time is given to the individual moments, scenarios and decisions to such scenarios. When you look at the story through the story....you forget the characters. The characters aren't like sitting in the room with you and going through the motions before you. You don't see the characer looking over your shoulder and saying to you something they would have said in an episode or in the novel.

Although I like the writing of Tielan and many other writers I do find my own faults in it, because I don't see the characters doing that. Before I can even write a scene or really think on it...I have to see about 10 episodes of SGA so I can hear the characters. Where I have them quote lines from the episodes within the story. I like looking at the depth of the character than the superificial. Again not to say that Tielan or any other writers don't do that.....I just don't see in teh work and I can see why you felt a bit off when reading the fics. I personally have only seen 3 writers do well with Teyla---meaning hit the Teyla's that I would see...that I can see---and that's Wedjatqi, Inara84, and erica2004. I feel that I have a good grasp of John and really limit myself around taking in the complexity of Teyla....but these writers I feel do well.

It's like I was reading Donna Lynn's work, who's an excellent writer, and I saw contractions....I hate Teyla speaking in contractions and when I brought it to her attention she said she did it purposefully. And that makes sense, on what she wanted to convey. Would I have ever done that?! No. Until I see it on screen it won't happen on paper. Can I definitely say she dind't hear the character? Based on her writing and omitting the fact of contractions she wrote Teyla amazingly well and hit the mark. Include contractions....I felt she was taking liberties with the character that was never given and projecting her voice into the character---so I felt a bit of Teyla was stifled. But again I have yet to see contractions so this is why I think this way. I even felt a bit of John was missing in reading some of the work, only because I couldn't see John use those words or say those things.

Personally, I find John easier to write for and can speak John easily....Teyla as I've said is complex. But I have seen writers butcher John...and other times I've sseen writers who begin speaking in John and later shift and adapt the character to the situation---this is really hardly done with Teyla....but I've seen writers sucessfully do that with John....Illman and Sheppy do that fo me and they write wicked team fics. The characters are projected loud and clear.

The romance writers..I think Sanssong and CR are great at writing John---but a certain side of John..the one we see a lot. He's definitely straight forward for them and their great at it. But their Teyla shifts and overall I like her....especially CR's new JT fic, I think Teyla will be fantastic (could be me projecting the Teyla I see into my input) and I do like Sanssongs..very straight forward, although sometimes I don't see Teyla saying something or doing something. I'd like to see the realm of complexity and how they hold up that side of the character though.

Based on my statments on the above writers...such as Wedjatqi, Inara84, erica2004, CR, and Sanssong....they wrote chapter fics..and their great without losing the voice of the characters(too much) and don't need to stick to the realm of one-shot. I personally find it easier since I find fics of that range related to macro. I like doing scene endings (one-shot style) chapters if I were to attempt large fics.

At this point I think when one finds it difficult to maintain the 'voice' of the character, you need to get an objective opinion to help you on a chapter to chapter basis; because they become the objective eye. But I don't think any writer needs to limit themsleves to one shots, they just need extra help in keeping on track if they lose the character.

Fanfiction again has less range in my eyes than original works, albeit the situtaion may be similar.

VB

[Jeyla4ever]

That's interesting...cause doesn't he say to her..."you picked a nice outfit?"

and I thought the entire time, he manipualted his sorroundings except Teyla..and that's why I thought he said, " I thought that was you"...

so, I think she picked out the attire...and the entire time it was Teyla...but everything else was manipulated by him....if I remember correctly...the Hammond-like said, that since Teyla had no memories of her own on Earth, they had her share John's thoughts...so what does that mean? and how was it that Hammond-knew that she would be better off in John's mind than in say, Weir's....?

And of coarse, how much of it was John's doing since he did go looking for her..and he even arranged transportation for them...and it was John's idea to go shopping, not Teyla's....I think he was there giving her his opinion and she finall decided based on his choosing first....

I'm gonna get the transcripts...

[vaberella]

That's interesting...cause doesn't he say to her..."you picked a nice outfit?"

and I thought the entire time, he manipualted his sorroundings except Teyla..and that's why I thought he said, " I thought that was you"...

so, I think she picked out the attire...and the entire time it was Teyla...but everything else was manipulated by him....if I remember correctly...the Hammond-like said, that since Teyla had no memories of her own on Earth, they had her share John's thoughts...so what does that mean? and how was it that Hammond-knew that she would be better off in John's mind than in say, Weir's....?

And of coarse, how much of it was John's doing since he did go looking for her..and he even arranged transportation for them...and it was John's idea to go shopping, not Teyla's....I think he was there giving her his opinion and she finall decided based on his choosing first....

I'm gonna get the transcripts...

Yup..but she really wouldn't have a choice. That's the impression I got from the Alien..she shared in his dream. How would she know what the outfits looked like..unless he thought them up?! John was controlling his entire reality, from inanimate to the animate...Teyla may have made a choice, but I think the choice was Johns, since he had control of the world, and Teyla picked it out. Had to have been there with her the whole time..cause he was the one who was going to pay for it, not Teyla, she has no concept of money or even credit cards. Or even how items are purchased on earth...barter doesn't work on this planet any more, unless your in the most primitive parts---and you got some cool people who'd take a chicken for a duvet.

I have no idea--in the case of General Hammond (the entity)...unless of course John always wanted to have Teyla be with him. Remember when Teyla addressed John before they were going a second time to the planet. I seemed to me the intention was that John would be showing Teyla around and guiding her. The dialogue shared between the two said as much to me. So I figured when they ended up like that....Teyla automatically fit into his world since that was always the intention.

Weir was busy doing other things...she had on her mind seeing Simon and of course there was a great deal of McKay. Same as McKay shared a similar mind set as Weir. Ford and Teyla were of course closer to John as he was to them.

[Jeyla4ever]

When one is a fanfiction writer there is always room to expand and play with the characters. You know the characters based on what you've seen, you're given the foundation....but interpretation will shift the outlook. There's room to develop them with explanation and test their lengths and bring them into more humanistic situations; but the range is not as wide as when the character is an OC.

This is what I like to do..I like focusing on the real than the unreal. On the small things that keep life moving---than the bigger picture. Much the same reason why I adore Microeconomics and hate Macroeconomics (although I'm a brain in that as well ). So when a writer and a good writer takes the characters and hears the 'voice' of the character it doesn't matter the situation they can make it work. This is not to say your a bad writer if you can't do that. But sometimes you lose yourself within the story than within the characters.
Let me see if I can explain that. To lose yourself in the story is too look at the bigger picture and pretty much see the story in the realm of the 'basic romance novel'. Beginning, middle, and end---and we have know we will have the antagonist, the protaganist, the hero, the heroine, the romance, the indecision, and of course the climatic end *tongue-in-cheek*. Like all romance novels there is no real development sometimes, there is nothing within the characters to really grab the reader unless a substantial amount of time is given to the individual moments, scenarios and decisions to such scenarios. When you look at the story through the story....you forget the characters. The characters aren't like sitting in the room with you and going through the motions before you. You don't see the characer looking over your shoulder and saying to you something they would have said in an episode or in the novel.
Although I like the writing of Tielan and many other writers I do find my own faults in it, because I don't see the characters doing that. Before I can even write a scene or really think on it...I have to see about 10 episodes of SGA so I can hear the characters. Where I have them quote lines from the episodes within the story. I like looking at the depth of the character than the superificial. Again not to say that Tielan or any other writers don't do that.....I just don't see in teh work and I can see why you felt a bit off when reading the fics. I personally have only seen 3 writers do well with Teyla---meaning hit the Teyla's that I would see...that I can see---and that's Wedjatqi, Inara84, and erica2004. I feel that I have a good grasp of John and really limit myself around taking in the complexity of Teyla....but these writers I feel do well.
It's like I was reading Donna Lynn's work, who's an excellent writer, and I saw contractions....I hate Teyla speaking in contractions and when I brought it to her attention she said she did it purposefully. And that makes sense, on what she wanted to convey. Would I have ever done that?! No. Until I see it on screen it won't happen on paper. Can I definitely say she dind't hear the character? Based on her writing and omitting the fact of contractions she wrote Teyla amazingly well and hit the mark. Include contractions....I felt she was taking liberties with the character that was never given and projecting her voice into the character---so I felt a bit of Teyla was stifled. But again I have yet to see contractions so this is why I think this way. I even felt a bit of John was missing in reading some of the work, only because I couldn't see John use those words or say those things.
Personally, I find John easier to write for and can speak John easily....Teyla as I've said is complex. But I have seen writers butcher John...and other times I've sseen writers who begin speaking in John and later shift and adapt the character to the situation---this is really hardly done with Teyla....but I've seen writers sucessfully do that with John....Illman and Sheppy do that fo me and they write wicked team fics. The characters are projected loud and clear.
The romance writers..I think Sanssong and CR are great at writing John---but a certain side of John..the one we see a lot. He's definitely straight forward for them and their great at it. But their Teyla shifts and overall I like her....especially CR's new JT fic, I think Teyla will be fantastic (could be me projecting the Teyla I see into my input) and I do like Sanssongs..very straight forward, although sometimes I don't see Teyla saying something or doing something. I'd like to see the realm of complexity and how they hold up that side of the character though.
Based on my statments on the above writers...such as Wedjatqi, Inara84, erica2004, CR, and Sanssong....they wrote chapter fics..and their great without losing the voice of the characters(too much) and don't need to stick to the realm of one-shot. I personally find it easier since I find fics of that range related to macro. I like doing scene endings (one-shot style) chapters if I were to attempt large fics.
At this point I think when one finds it difficult to maintain the 'voice' of the character, you need to get an objective opinion to help you on a chapter to chapter basis; because they become the objective eye. But I don't think any writer needs to limit themsleves to one shots, they just need extra help in keeping on track if they lose the character.
Fanfiction again has less range in my eyes than original works, albeit the situtaion may be similar.

VB

Thank you for this...VB and DM...I guess in reading and writing myself...I am so new at this...and I guess you are right...it seems so much easier i guess when you develop your own character rather than write fics on already established characters...again....I love the work of any writer...I see writing as a talent..one that can always be improved upon...but I do believe some are way better than others...It's no secret that the more you read the better writer you might also become....I lack in both of these...but I read anything J/T and not picky..and anything that has a good sound story like a beginnning, middle and an ending, whether it sounds like the characters or not...I always like to think of it as a piece of writing that must have been challenging and like me..so important when you finally share it with others that I'd be a hiprocrit if I were to insinuate anything but admiration for all who write!

So, I guess my point was that while writers, and I"m basing this strickly on my experience in reading J/T fics can do wonderful works as they expand their imagination and create a variety of genres with the SGA characters it is challenging to maintain the character's voice in the series when venturing in this direction....it's easier for me anyways, to write McKay than John and Teyla..and even Ronon is easier...and Elizabeth is a breeze!

But John and Teyla can be challenging...especially writing them together since that hasn't happened as of yet in the show...

But overall, I mean no disrespect or any negative feedback was meant on this..it's simply that when the writers venture to imagine characters in other types of scenarios, the characters voice is sometimes lost....

I guess as a experimental writer...I like to compare and dissect other fics while trying to find my own voice and my own style....in of the same, reading fics that not only are well developed in plot and creativity but that also do so maintaining the characters true voice...

I love all fics...when they are done right..even if the I feel that the characters aren't there...but I especially love those that do maintain the characters...because to me, that is a challenge within itself!

Thanks guys......

[Jeyla4ever]

Yup..but she really wouldn't have a choice. That's the impression I got from the Alien..she shared in his dream. How would she know what the outfits looked like..unless he thought them up?! John was controlling his entire reality, from inanimate to the animate...Teyla may have made a choice, but I think the choice was Johns, since he had control of the world, and Teyla picked it out. Had to have been there with her the whole time..cause he was the one who was going to pay for it, not Teyla, she has no concept of money or even credit cards. Or even how items are purchased on earth...barter doesn't work on this planet any more, unless your in the most primitive parts---and you got some cool people who'd take a chicken for a duvet.

I have no idea--in the case of General Hammond (the entity)...unless of course John always wanted to have Teyla be with him. Remember when Teyla addressed John before they were going a second time to the planet. I seemed to me the intention was that John would be showing Teyla around and guiding her. The dialogue shared between the two said as much to me. So I figured when they ended up like that....Teyla automatically fit into his world since that was always the intention.

Weir was busy doing other things...she had on her mind seeing Simon and of course there was a great deal of McKay. Same as McKay shared a similar mind set as Weir. Ford and Teyla were of course closer to John as he was to them.

I see what you mean......I guess the whole thing with Hammond was that perhaps they tapped into their minds prior to having them live their dreams...so he must have seen the connection between these two and how John was going to have Teyla be with him anyways...Like you said, they had discussed it from the very beginning and that was before the entire thing with the entity...so, yeah! John was playing and manipulating everything in his mind even sorrounding Teyla..but again, why did he then turn around and say to Teyla, "I thought that was You?"

What did he based this on? Why did he think that was not the Teyla he would have imagined?