Rodney McKay/David Hewlett Thunk/Discussion/Appreciation

[Willow'sCat]

You know we have a discussion thread people just ignore the mad women ranting on it at the moment!

Quick post, I can't remember if I posted this in here? I know I posted just DH but I did them both in the pic for the Slash thread

Do we have new ones yet?! Why are they taking so long?



Anyway have to go and do some work. Bye!

[Pitry]

Mmm.. I meant "jerk" in the most loving, positive way? I did, tho! He comes off as a jerk. It's not jsut his arrogance, because people can be arrogant and still treat people kindly. Perhaps the combination of arrogance and self-centredness, the fact he doesn't bother being nice to people - TBH now that I think of it, it's better than the arrogant & nice, which usually comes off as condescending.

Trinity.

Spoiler:

I dind't see it as bashing him, at all. I thought it was a great protrayel of who Rodney is - the moment he knows a man is dead and truely believes - that's what I got from it, at any rate - that the only way to honour the dead red-shirt is to continue the research, make his death worth something. That's a wonderful quality to be protrayed, IMHO. The point was exactly, again MHO, to show how Rodney acts when he has to face the fact he was wrong. When there're no excuses, no clever comments to be told, MCKay screwed up and he knows it. But it's one of my favourite McKay episodes to date, so..

As for Sam.. Well, 48 hours she didn't listen to McKay because he basically said "Okay, Teal'c is dead." She refused to give up on Teal'c, and saying that's what lsitening to McKay would have ended up being. Not forgetting the resentment she felt because of the deadline of the Pentagon - again, McKay's fault. redemption.. I dunno, I guess she didn't lsiten to him - most of the episode, when they wanted to open the hyperspace window it was McKay who gave her the idea to upload a programme... also I guess the scene I have in memory from Redemption is in the infirmary - again, because this is such a human moment for McKay, when he comes to Sam and gives her the "you're an artist" speech. I really enjoyed that one, and it really showed Rodney's humanity - and is soemthing I would like to see more on Atlantis, TBH.

Cattsitter - you're right. Perhaps it's easier for Sam not to screw up - or be seen as if she's screwing up - because she has more help to rely on. Rodney has to rely on himself alone - and on the people he works with, but the problem is that he knows his background in Stargate and Ancient technology is better, so he has no reason to prefer their judgement over his. And that migth as well be the reason he screws up more than Sam.

[Arlessiar]

Hi peeps!
Unfortunately I don't have so much time during the day at the moment, so I started to write something for this thread and in the end it took me three days to finish it. By now there have been new posts, too, but I'd like to post this nonetheless. It's more a general mini-rant, so I guess it's still up-to-date.

You know, I don't mind seeing the character's screw up. It is what I like about this show. It makes more real. As much as I love SG-1, I get a little bored by the perfection of the characters.

I agree with that, too much perfection gets boring fast. Some flaws are good for a TV character.
And the important part here is: Flaws are a reason why I like Rodney McKay. He has flaws, even more than the other characters. And I think that makes his character very interesting. That means, I have no problem with RM screwing up something. But I don't like it when it happens too often. And that's where I disagree a bit with a few other people, because I think having him screwing up again would be too much. I think we have seen enough of that for some time.

Besides, Rodney is not the only one who has made mistakes.

Spoiler:

The whole team did with the Micheal debacle, Shepard was way off the mark when it came to judging how far gone Ford was at first, and then again during Allies. Let's face it, if you replace Rodney then you have'd to replace Weir, Carson and maybe even Sheppard.

The first part of my text may contain mini spoilers, so I put it in tags:

Spoiler:

I agree, the others have definitely screwed up too, and if someone should think of replacing Rodney, the others should be replaced too (which, of course, will never happen, they’re the main cast). But fascinatingly enough the others have hardly been blamed for their mistakes. Weir screwed up, Carson did, Sheppard did, but were they yelled at in front of others? Were they told that they lost someone's trust? Do people roll their eyes when they see them? No. I just watched Rising again, and after the big "it's too dangerous" discussion between Weir and Shepard, John wakes up the Wraith and says that Weir was right, that he made it worse. And is she angry? No, suddenly she says 'c'est la vie'. The only time Weir had a somewhat serious talk with John was at the end of “Hot Zone”, but it didn’t have any real consequences. Carson? Feels bad about what he did on Hoff and with the retrovirus and with Michael, and since he’s so humble and miserable everybody simply comforts him. Weir? Well, we have to wait for S3, there seems to be an investigation, but until now everyone still follows her lead and respects her.

Who knows, maybe the characters blame themselves the whole day long (sad that we never saw the Sumner dogtags in John’s room) and TPTB think that’s enough, but that Rodney can take more. After all he thinks he’s a genius and doesn’t have problems with saying so, and high self-confidence or arrogance leads others to think that you have a thick skin and that your ego can take everything, or that you need to be punished more severely than others so that you see your mistakes. If you aim high you can fall deep, which is an interesting thing to show, I admit that, and Rodney acts that way sometimes. But this concept’s only interesting once so often. And I can hardly imagine that Rodney doesn’t blame himself the slightest bit about the events in “Trinity”

More importantly we also saw a number of times where Rodney did save the day.
[...]In short, I think it not so much the writers want to bash McKay, I think they want to go a different direction with all the characters and to show the human flaws rather then heroic characters that always seem to get it right

Yes, he did save the day a few times or helped with that. But interestingly enough he doesn’t often get praise for that. Why? Do the others think his ego is big enough already, that he doesn’t need even more acknowledgement? Or do they expect him to be that good and therefore don’t acknowledge the effort anymore? Often other characters get something like a “Well done” afterwards. Rodney gets a” yes” to his question if people doubted him. By people who are supposed to be his friends.
I once had a friend who was highly intelligent, but still felt the need to swagger about his (numerous) achievements and whined about things he deemed a failure (which really weren’t failures in my eyes). Few people liked him, but I did. It wasn’t always easy to be around him, but he was someone you could rely on if you really needed help, and he was an interesting human being once he let you see behind the curtain a little.
All I want is for RM to get a little more credit for his work, or that he does something outstanding (in a positive way of course) to support his claim that he really is a genius. I don’t want him to take over the show, to solve every problem, to pull a Samantha Carter and save the day alone, to be the big hero – no. I just want to see that the others actually say ‘wow, that was really good’ one time. And maybe even thank him.


Concerning the character bashing: Well, I agree, real bashing can’t be found on the show, no, I think the writers like McKay, even if they treat him really weird sometimes and love to deflate his ego. But in the fandom?
One example: Recently another negative thread ("issues with McKay") had been opened here on GW - we already had quite a few threads about exactly the same topic. And before someone feels the need to point it out: Yes, I've heard the accusation "There are so many positive threads, why don't you accept negative ones?" But that's not the point. I accept negative threads. I just don't understand why we need so many of them about exactly the same thing (I feel the same about constantly repeated positive threads!), and there have been a lot "I can't stand McKay, he needs to be toned down" threads out there in the last year!
I had to experience what can happen when the McKay fans dare to complain about that, it wasn't pretty. Seems sometimes as if fans of a character, who has big flaws in canon, aren't allowed to defend this character, as if you have no right to defend something that's ‘officially negative’ and therefore unprotected game. I understand that not everyone likes McKay. He’s hard to like. And not everyone has to love every character. I don’t like Caldwell. But do I walk around and post that everywhere? I don't go and ask: "Can Sheppard be less heroic? Can Weir make better decisions? Can Beckett be more ethical? Can Ronon be less trigger-happy? Can Teyla stop to be the voice of reason every time?" although there are surely aspects that annoy me sometimes. But these threads would be pointless, at least after the first time they were posted. Not every aspect of every character is to my liking, but I don't feel the need to open thread after thread because of that, because I know that there's a difference between normal and logical character development and my demands to see my own dream characters.

I mean, people want RM to be nicer and less arrogant and quiet. But would that still be Rodney? And he's already much softer than the RM from SG1 (DH explained why, because you can't have a major character be that negative as he was as a guest star where his job was to make the lead characters look good). He's already nicer than before, he knows he has found friends and respects them in his own way. The rest is just the way he is and reacts. That's Rodney, that's the way I want him to stay.
And really, how much more can Rodney possibly be toned down? Do people want him to kneel, crawl and beg and excuse himself or what? He learnt his lessons already, I think, and if they didn't show it enough on the show, then that's a major mistake from TPTB who fear consequences and continuity. If he’s toned down even more, loses his snarkiness and his slight arrogance, then he’d be normal, and his appeal would be diminished. It’s as if Sheppard wouldn’t be the hero any longer but a standard military guy who follows rules and cuts his hair and does nothing than his job. No-one wants that, why do they want Rodney to change? Do they want another standard scientist? A nice, intelligent man who saves the day and curtsies afterwards?
Rodney polarizes, I can accept that. I can understand that you love or hate him, and that those who hate him might be a bit more open about that than other people who dislike other characters. But in his case fans have really gone to extremes IMHO. I wonder why – do they fear him? His ego? His presence? His loudness? The fact that many people like him? That the others characters might suffer because of RM’s popularity?

I agree, we need character development, and if that means that Rodney becomes a little softer when he slowly realises what his friends mean to him, that they like him, that Atlantis is his home and family, that he’s important but not more than others and so on, then it’s ok for me. But please, in a natural pace, not too much and not too fast. A fan once told David Hewlett, it was in the beginning of SGA, never to lose Rodney’s snark (don’t know the exact quote anymore). I laughed when I heard that, because I couldn’t imagine how important it would become, that one day people really would want this snarkiness to vanish. Now I can only hope that DH and TPTB will stick to what this fan said.


Bye, A.

[pavaneofstars]

Excellent post Arlessiar! I agree with what you said.

I mean, people want RM to be nicer and less arrogant and quiet. But would that still be Rodney? And he's already much softer than the RM from SG1 (DH explained why, because you can't have a major character be that negative as he was as a guest star where his job was to make the lead characters look good). He's already nicer than before, he knows he has found friends and respects them in his own way. The rest is just the way he is and reacts. That's Rodney, that's the way I want him to stay.

If you tried to tone Rodney down any more, you'd loose the character. And the show would not be the same. I think because Rodney is so "loud" a lot of the time, others feel like he can take the fall for a lot of things.

A fan once told David Hewlett, it was in the beginning of SGA, never to lose Rodney’s snark (don’t know the exact quote anymore). I laughed when I heard that, because I couldn’t imagine how important it would become, that one day people really would want this snarkiness to vanish. Now I can only hope that DH and TPTB will stick to what this fan said.

I remember reading about that. Gosh that puts into perspective doesn't it? Please don't loose the snark! I love the snark.

[tiggerific]

nooooooooooooooo cant loose the snark thats part and parcel of the character!

[pavaneofstars]

You know we have a discussion thread people just ignore the mad women ranting on it at the moment!

ok!

Quick post, I can't remember if I posted this in here? I know I posted just DH but I did them both in the pic for the Slash thread

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y28...x/4fb8ee1e.jpg

nice job

[Catsitter]

Whew, Arlessiar, that was a great post! And I thought mine was long! Well done. I agree with everything in it really, and especially about liking it when somebody tells RM "well done" or thanks him for saving them / everybody / Atlantis. It seems to me that Shep thanks him at the end of quite a few episodes in Series 1, and I haven't seen very much of series 2 yet, but one of the many things that annoys me about "Runner" is

Spoiler:

that nobody gets thanked or told they did well at the end, just because Shep has to get told off for not succeeding in his mission. When Rodney mentions that he shot Ford too nobody says well done for that, it just comes over as another "funny" bit, and we never get to see Rodney thanking Ronon for saving his life, or anybody praising Beckett for removing that device, as far as I can remember. Surely just because the mission failed it doesn't mean that nobody can be praised for what they did well?

[McKayRocks!]

Hello!!!!!!!!!

Had a busy day with RL yesterday so had to catch up when I go home from work!

Thanks for the info re language Arlessiar. You know I have trouble with catching everything that is said in some eps so I should check out the transcripts like you do! There is a scene in GUP where I just cannot get what Rodney says and I have been right up to the telly and have put my ear to the speaker! That is why subtitles are so ace but as I am holding out for the boxed set I shall have to wait a while yet!!

Very nice pic Willow!

*waves to everyone else*



Mx

[pavaneofstars]

You know I have trouble with catching everything that is said in some eps so I should check out the transcripts like you do! There is a scene in GUP where I just cannot get what Rodney says and I have been right up to the telly and have put my ear to the speaker!

I know what you mean. Rodney talks too fast at times and there are times when I have to turn the captioning on to get all of what he's saying, lol.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ocks/Home2.jpg

oh, happy hands! Love happy hands! Anyone else have happy hands pics?

[Red Phoniex]

just watched century hotel for the first time. David's got a cute butt!!!! shame we couldn't see any of it in Duet :goes off to wash her dirty mind:

[McKayRocks!]

just watched century hotel for the first time. David's got a cute butt!!!! shame we couldn't see any of it in Duet :goes off to wash her dirty mind:

Better stick mine in the machine with yours!!

Mx

[Arlessiar]

Thanks for the info re language Arlessiar. You know I have trouble with catching everything that is said in some eps so I should check out the transcripts like you do! There is a scene in GUP where I just cannot get what Rodney says and I have been right up to the telly and have put my ear to the speaker!

I know what you mean. Rodney talks too fast at times and there are times when I have to turn the captioning on to get all of what he's saying, lol.

Thanks you two! It's really reassuring to know that even you as native speakers don't understand every word, that makes me feel better when I fail to understand at first what the heck they're talking about in some scenes!

oh, happy hands! Love happy hands! Anyone else have happy hands pics?

I love his happy hands too! Sadly I don't have any more happy hands pics. Will just hands do?

just watched century hotel for the first time. David's got a cute butt!!!! shame we couldn't see any of it in Duet :goes off to wash her dirty mind:

*joins Mx and Phoniex at the sink/shower/washing machine*

Hey, I need more soap!

Bye, A.

[pavaneofstars]

*joins Mx and Phoniex at the sink/shower/washing machine*

Hey, I need more soap!

I may have to join you; I'll bring extra soap Thanks for the "geek hands."

[Arlessiar]

Hi Willow!
Hi strivaria!

Good to see you two!

So, I just watched DH's appearance in the Canadian series "The Campbells". Oh my, he was such a young cutie then! Poor woobie gets hurt (ok, he's not very nice in the beginning, so he probably deserved it) and looks simply cute!
And the best thing about this ep: We finally get to see David riding a horse! He said that he learnt to ride as a child, and I wanted to see pics so badly for a long time now! Now I have some, yeah!

I made many caps, beware!

First David and the horse (Now we can officially add a horse to our list of animals David worked with! ). He even rides bareback!







More to follow.

Bye, A.

[Arlessiar]

I may have to join you; I'll bring extra soap Thanks for the "geek hands."

Yes, join us and bring more soap, we'll need it!
"Geek hands" - did you see the name of the file in my PB account or did you just come up with that? Because if you just called his hands geek hands I'd be very amused that we chose the same term for this pic!

More Campbell pics:





Bye, A.