Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Easter Lily]

For me Sam/Jack didn't start from "Broca Divide" for me it was "Solitudes". And I remember the TPTB giving and interview saying that they kind of saw a Sam/Jack potential after seeing "Out of Mind".

Anyways...speaking of "Solitudes", I think we need an episode where John and Elizabeth are stuck on a planet together.

I think the real trick would be incorporating that kind of interaction without alienating the rest of fandom. I've seen this two-people-stuck-on-a-planet- without-any-help scenario several times over and it would be hard to do anything terribly original. I didn't mind Solitudes... thought not a favourite... and I didn't see anything ship oriented then. Solitudes was okay because the audience could choose to read between the lines or they could see it as two people working together taking care of each other in a situation.

I like my romance built over a period of time through constant interaction (eg. Firefly) rather than have these once off scenarios where they never revisit again. I remember an episode in ST:TNG, when Picard and Crusher were alone together, trapped in each other's minds... and of course, they explore their feelings for each other. It was pretty slow going and became quite dull, I thought. It would be nice for a change that romance be explored without losing that sense of pace or urgency.

[gooner_diva]

Well, in a stasis pod, they'd be in, y'know, stasis, so it wouldn't be too interesting for them or us.

LOL, very true, wrong choice of words there. BTW, Part 3 of Game On was brilliant, I've just finished reading it. I'd say something more constructive, but it's 2:40 AM.

Today "she" really came out of the woodwork in two different threads. One overdoing it on praising a certain character (sounded like a stalker), the other was outright attacking an actor on the show - personally (which several people have reported to the mods).

No kidding, my eyes are still bleeding from that latest sock attack.

[Skyler]

I must admit to being surprised at the fact that they're going that way so soon.
While I am excited about the implications of TLG, I really hope that TPTB aren't going to botch this relationship up the way they did with a certain another pairing. I care a lot more about Atlantis and I really want it to do well... and I've come to appreciate both Sheppard and Weir as individuals and I certainly don't want them to sink under the weight of any "shippiness" or have their integrity compromised.

The subtext has become the full text within a context of a pretext...

I must admit that I am surprised that this all is happening, from what I am gathering from the spoilers. I hope that TPTB really invest in this relationship and not rush into the whole thing. I like what you said about not sinking under the weight of "shippiness" or have their integrity compromised. But, if Sheppard and Weir DO decide to pursue a relationship, isn't that compromising their integrity because she is his boss, and although she is not military, wouldn't that compromise both of their professional integrities? I think Weir would be really straight and narrow about the whole thing. To be honest I see her trying to avoid talking about the events of TLG, because even though she may have feelings, she can't allow herself to get involved with someone under her command.

Don't get me wrong, I WANT them to get together, but I think it will breach both of their professional integrities, I don't see anyway around that. Maybe they will be like Romeo and Joliet, just not without the whole dying thing, and the whole families at war thing. On second thought, just scratch that whole idea.. LOL...

Spoiler:

That carpet thing really freaks me out first the jar with the mints and now this carpet...but hey, maybe there is a hole behind, where she has her secretly chocolat-bar ration or she has tonns of jello-pulver

I don't know if these are spoiler questions but...

Spoiler:

What episode was the jar with mints in? And the carpet thing? Can someone explain it to me?

I'm listening to the Song over and over again while work...it's good, that it's allowed

What song where you listening to Dorka?

[Luz]

Oh, Okay. She was comparing that moment to the Sam/Jack moment in Broca Divide (which I've always hated... Sorry to any other Sam/Jack people who liked it... I just found it a little disturbing....)
Anyway, her comment was that that's how the Sam/Jack ship started out....

Oh, my, i hope they were comparing it to Shep/Teyla, 'cause look at what a disaster tptb made out of S/J. Not that i was a shipper, mind you, just that from an outsider's point of view the S/J ship was so full of wrongs.

As for the Conversion comments in the Sam/Jack thread... meh. I don't think anyone here felt like they'd taken a hit after seeing that episode. Most of the Shep/Teyla people (well, before the original posters all left because the thread quality tanked) walked out of that one feeling down about their ship.

Actually i was *SO* happy to hear about that conversion

Spoiler:

kiss

'cause for me that meant the definite assassination of the Shep/Teyla ship, it so showcased the absolute hopelessness of that Titanic, that episode to me was the iceberg for Shep/Teyla, not that there were much possibilities before, i mean to me Shep/Weir are this close to being cannon, it's just a matter of time.
This might be one of the reasons why i don't squee with those spoilers of TLG, it's hard to when i know just how fast the high goes away. You might enjoy it the moment it happens, but when nine years have passed and all you have is a couple lousy kisses, some of them not even real, then you'll know just how ephemeral that tiny little moment of happiness was, and how empty it feels when there is no resolution at all.

[Bama]

But, if Sheppard and Weir DO decide to pursue a relationship, isn't that compromising their integrity because she is his boss, and although she is not military, wouldn't that compromise both of their professional integrities? I think Weir would be really straight and narrow about the whole thing. To be honest I see her trying to avoid talking about the events of TLG, because even though she may have feelings, she can't allow herself to get involved with someone under her command.

Hey skyler...seen you around some of the other theads...

You ask a legit question that few of us in here have shied away from and most have asked ourselves. My answer is always the same because it's what it all boils down to for me: Time. Neither would wish to voluntarily push into a pair bond relationship for the very risks you mention. I find it interesting that these 'risks' are presently being addressed on the show in the form of

Spoiler:

Caldwell's inquiries, Elizabeth's final decision toward John in Conversion, Kavanaugh's innuendo and the like.

So, it seems that TPTB are seeing that same barrier and they're meeting it head on and I like that. I would hope that over time that E/J would find themselves in a strong enough position professionally to meet it head on as well and I think that will happen. But it will take some more time. And successes. And with every success, they gain power and trust as leaders that can make solid decisions that put the bigger mission first regardless of who is involved - including if it's those they care the most for. But, it is human nature to allow personal feelings to come into play. There's not a world leader or army general in the position today that's never been what others would call 'compromised' in some way because they made a decision based on personal rather than simply professional. Now, that doesn't make it right but it does make them human. I think we'll see in time that the earth command will accept Shep and Weir as co-leaders of this world of theirs and they'll accept that though personal relationships may play a part in their lives, there's no one they'd trust to do a better job in the positions of authority over atlantis. What person on atlantis even now would turn their back on john or elizabeth because they found out the two of them were involved? Very few. Where the people follow goes the power. So I simply think time, power and respect will solve any barrier to a personal relationship shift for J/E.

And honestly, would the people of Atlantis rather have happy, satisfied and content leaders or leaders that are grumpy, edgy and have trouble concentrating? Shep and Weir are becoming more and more to each other like a sailor's shore leave is to him.

[dahan]

No, I'm not in the wrong thread...

But since we're all good friends around here

I just thought that those who have yet to see the Scifi channel 30 teaser for the second half of the current seasons of SG-1 and SGA should get a chance to see the Shep and Weir scene, that will undoubtedly be dubbed "the infamous encounter" around here, so I capped and compressed it for everyone. Enjoy!

It's only 3 megs

INCREDIBLY SPOILERISH

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HRPUFJTT

[Buggy542]

I must admit that I am surprised that this all is happening, from what I am gathering from the spoilers. I hope that TPTB really invest in this relationship and not rush into the whole thing. I like what you said about not sinking under the weight of "shippiness" or have their integrity compromised. But, if Sheppard and Weir DO decide to pursue a relationship, isn't that compromising their integrity because she is his boss, and although she is not military, wouldn't that compromise both of their professional integrities? I think Weir would be really straight and narrow about the whole thing. To be honest I see her trying to avoid talking about the events of TLG, because even though she may have feelings, she can't allow herself to get involved with someone under her command.

Very true... It's always hard get two people together in a show that isn't centered on relationships. I have faith in the writers and producers though - they've tried it before, I just hope they learn from S/J.

I don't know if these are spoiler questions but... What episode was the jar with mints in?

Spoiler:

And the carpet thing?

Can someone explain it to me?

The

Spoiler:

carpet thing

I don't know about, but the mints started here:

[Rubicon]

I don't think I will ever "get" chain of command issues people bring up. I just don't.

Let's play what if...

Say E & J did the deed, & got married, lived happily ever after, the end.

What would change about their jobs if they were involved? Both of them would know the others values, what's important to them, their character. Would John demand E. stay home barefoot & pregnant? Would E. reassign John to a Janitor? Er... no. Being in a relationship would NOT change who they are, what they love about each other. They are leaders, professionals in love with what they do. They are both... umm... mature and have had a life apart from the other.

Oh doG, I'm beginning to sound like Bama. I must be stopped.

[Buggy542]

I don't think I will ever "get" chain of command issues people bring up. I just don't.

Let's play what if...

Say E & J did the deed, & got married, lived happily ever after, the end.

What would change about their jobs if they were involved? Both of them would know the others values, what's important to them, their character. Would John demand E. stay home barefoot & pregnant? Would E. reassign John to a Janitor? Er... no. Being in a relationship would NOT change who they are, what they love about each other. They are leaders, professionals in love with what they do. They are both... umm... mature and have had a life apart from the other.

Oh doG, I'm beginning to sound like Bama. I must be stopped.

I'm just guessing, but I think the reason it's kinda 'forbidden' is because of a favouratism issue. For example, if John went missing off-world it's possible that Liz would lose perspective and start making unnecesary sacrifices to find him. It could also be that if John unexpectedly died (which is very possible) she may be incapacitated by grief and/or lose her cool.

Oh heck! What do I know? Here's a pic that hasn't been posted for a while:

We went over this a long time ago, but it's still funny: Check out where his foot is.

[Bama]

I don't think I will ever "get" chain of command issues people bring up. I just don't.

Let's play what if...

Say E & J did the deed, & got married, lived happily ever after, the end.

What would change about their jobs if they were involved? Both of them would know the others values, what's important to them, their character. Would John demand E. stay home barefoot & pregnant? Would E. reassign John to a Janitor? Er... no. Being in a relationship would NOT change who they are, what they love about each other. They are leaders, professionals in love with what they do. They are both... umm... mature and have had a life apart from the other.

Oh doG, I'm beginning to sound like Bama. I must be stopped.

Hey! I'm still lurking! At least show some courtesy and wait until I de-lurk to insult me woman!

Your last two sentences...Nail. Meet. Hammer. Dead on straight. Now why can't I be that concise?

[Easter Lily]

I don't think I will ever "get" chain of command issues people bring up. I just don't.

Let's play what if...

Say E & J did the deed, & got married, lived happily ever after, the end.

What would change about their jobs if they were involved? Both of them would know the others values, what's important to them, their character. Would John demand E. stay home barefoot & pregnant? Would E. reassign John to a Janitor? Er... no. Being in a relationship would NOT change who they are, what they love about each other. They are leaders, professionals in love with what they do. They are both... umm... mature and have had a life apart from the other.

Oh doG, I'm beginning to sound like Bama. I must be stopped.

The issue is not with us but with the military or whatever authority these characters are answerable to. It's a complicated scenario in any culture: a figure in a position of authority falling in love with a subordinate always has ramifications for other issues. Can they be objective... can they be trusted to make decisions not based on emotional flights but on sound reasoning? They are expected not only to do the right thing but to be SEEN to do the right thing.
Would Weir be able to send Sheppard on a mission knowing that he may not come back?
Torri herself has acknowledge this problem at the recent Australasian conventions... the nature of Weir's position and how she has to be emotionally isolated from the rest of expedition. It's a very lonely job.

Love has implications not just for the couple involved but for the people they lead, as is the case here. Love may cover a multitude of sins but love can also bring about other kinds of problems for people in positions of power. They're under heavy scrutiny and they cannot be seen to show preferential treatment to anyone. Like it or not, their lives quite often not their own. Atlantis is also a rather claustrophobic environment... their lives are an open book.

[Bama]

I'm just guessing, but I think the reason it's kinda 'forbidden' is because of a favouratism issue. For example, if John went missing off-world it's possible that Liz would lose perspective and start making unnecesary sacrifices to find him. It could also be that if John unexpectedly died (which is very possible) she may be incapacitated by grief and/or lose her cool.

Do you really think being in a relationship would change her response? If she loves him-she loves him-period. Admitting it isn't going to suddenly make her into a dingbat, out of control, trigger happy idiot. And I don't get that whole 'favoritism' argument anyway. Elizabeth already shows that he's her favorite friend and confidant as her 2IC and has from day one and she doesn't really seem to care who knows it or who thinks what about that. I mean what's she going to do if she's personally involved with him to show more favor? Save him a seat at the lunch table? Share her blue jello? Maybe her red...but I digress...

[Rubicon]

Yeah still not getting it.

Even if Elizabeth did not want to send John on a dangerous plot/mission, (because what they all do in Atlantis is sooo safe) He wouldn't stand for it. The best person for the job does it. E has been shown to do the right thing, not the easy thing. Same with John.

Bama get out of my head!

OT: I just watched Mitch P. in Nip/Tuck--- hhhhhhhhhhhhot with the goatee. Wowza. Just sayin.

[LurkerLa]

I don't know if these are spoiler questions but...

Spoiler:

What episode was the jar with mints in? And the carpet thing? Can someone explain it to me?

If you are referring to the pictures that have been posted here recently (and that's the only one I can think of with the carpet thing), they're from Critical Mass.

What song where you listening to Dorka?

Obviously I can't answer for Dorka, but my thought is that it's "Ride" - the song from the promo vid.

Oh, and Hatcheter, black ops Jor is so cute that I'm tempted to kidnap him. But he's black ops trained, so he'd probably kick my butt for trying.

Can we have a Christmas/Chanukah/winter holiday Jor, too, please? Pretty pretty please?

[Bama]

Love has implications not just for the couple involved but for the people they lead, as is the case here. Love may cover a multitude of sins but love can also bring about other kinds of problems for people in positions of power.

But how do you *stop* the feelings if they're there anyway? How do either of them help themselves by keeping them all bottled up? How does that really help the commandship? If love and feelings from one man to a woman and vice-versa could be totally controlled, I could see the rationale of them getting a grip but we all know it's not the case. Still, I do understand the questions and it's not wrong for us or caldwell or anyone to ask them. It's up to shep and weir to handle situations and their feelings for each other the best of their ability and still get the job done together.