Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Xcully]

Question for you all:

When Shep and Weir get together, would one of them have to be sent back to Earth?

Also, if you had your choice, would you want them to get together right now or wait and let it develop a bit more?

I would like to see more chemistry's dance between Shep and Weir...more scenes, problems, feelings! And after a real relationship....
For the first question for me not....maybe there'll be problems from SGC but Shep is a military, Weir not!!!It' better than Sam and Jack!

[Bama]

I just figure that if she's in charge of Atlantis (even if she is a civilian) that the military rules would still apply. Believe me, I hope they DON'T apply!

And I also think that while I would love to get them togethe, it needs time. I want to see it done right.

Naw, the military rules are for *the military*. I can't see any problem at all on her side of things-other than her own ethics and opinions on the matter- and very little on John's side. And I seriously doubt that the president laid down any ground rules on her own conduct as it related to anything other than how the job was to be handled. Actually, I think we have a lot of evidence that leads me to believe that it was pretty much handed to Elizabeth and she has a lot, lot of power and jurisdiction on all things Atlantis. The way she used her authority in Intruder to override the military pretty much told me all I needed to know on that issue. The military/pentagon can bear pressure on the president but if that's her boss, she only answers to him on her decisions. We also have Scientists and military personel *dating* as we see in Duet and I'm quite sure Elizabeth is aware of what's going on there and sees no need to stop such unless she sees it presenting a professional problem. I just cannot see her, with her civilian background and her acceptance of Atlantis as a 'life choice', being overly concerned about what someone on Earth thinks Atlantis personel should be doing with their personal lives.

As for John, he's already been semi-temp. 'involved' with an 'alien civilian' and we know he's not a stickler for rules and even such, I can see no technical reason why his Earth leaders could possibly prevent him from being personally involved with someone that was non-military unless they created a special 'rule book for Atlantis' that we don't know of.

What I find fascinating about the socialization of Atlantis is that all these military armies are blending and they all come from armies that have different rule, regs and the like. In his capacity, John would seem to have a lot of power to interpret rules for the blended group. We also have scientists and medical and clerical personel from civilian walks of life under Elizabeth's direct command and she certainly doesn't seem to have rules dictating their personal life, so this 'society' such as it is, will seemingly develop under the direction and vision of Queen Elizabeth and King John. I love that.

[Southern Red]

What I find fascinating about the socialization of Atlantis is that all these military armies are blending and they all come from armies that have different rule, regs and the like. In his capacity, John would seem to have a lot of power to interpret rules for the blended group. We also have scientists and medical and clerical personel from civilian walks of life under Elizabeth's direct command and she certainly doesn't seem to have rules dictating their personal life, so this 'society' such as it is, will seemingly develop under the direction and vision of Queen Elizabeth and King John. I love that.

Don't forget the what was it? International Committee or some such that Eliz refers to in Intruder. There must have been guidelines set up, but so far they haven't chosen to reveal them to us. Or follow them for that matter.

I just want to show off my new sig. Thanks to Bama for her help with the Spark-O-Meter. It will be updated as needed. Hopefully soon.

[SallyLizzie]

The fraternisation rule applies to Officers dating anyone under their chain-of-command. Whilst there are no actual rules being broken if John and Liz get together, there IS a question of personal ethics.

I used to say they would be ready for a relationship S3-4 but now i'd rather it was S4. I can't believe we're up to S3 already Reading spoilers, there seems to be great oppurtunities for Sparky to development the back end of
S2. Infact not just Sparky, there seems to be great character development for Weir, Shep, Beckett and possibly McKay. I want to see this continued in
S3...looking at the effect that happenings in S2 had on them. I also want to see more Teyla and Ronon development. THat line

Spoiler:

''I understand but the others wouldn't''

really intrigues me and i'd love to see that explored.
I think a 'near miss' the end of S3 then they hook-up S4. I'm not even talking about a 'near-kiss', just something that shows how aware they are and that they DO want to be together but realise that through timing and circumstance it isn't possible just yet.

[Bama]

Don't forget the what was it? International Committee or some such that Eliz refers to in Intruder. There must have been guidelines set up, but so far they haven't chosen to reveal them to us. Or follow them for that matter.

I would assume Southern that the 'International Committee' (boy, they were vague on that weren't they?) is headed by the U.S. pres. since he's her direct boss. I just foresee that as time goes on that Queen Elizabeth and King John will do such a competent job that they will be seen are irreplacable by these Earthly commitees who, let's face it, don't have a clue other than what Elizabeth reports to them. Now, could I see Caldwell making innuendos and reports to Earth that tried to undermine her? Sure I could. He's already 'hinted' that he did such. He's a pretty obvious rules stickler and old school military mind who hasn't discovered that he's in a galaxy far, far away and Earth tactical and ethical rules may not always be the best way. I could see Caldwell, in a report saying that Elizabeth and/or John were letting emotion and personal feelings cloud their judgements. However, as long as John and Elizabeth's professional records show up in good standing in the eyes of the president and the international committee, I can't see them giving a flying fig who they're feeling what about. Now, if things start going wrong (which I'm pretty sure we'll see)...all bets are off and Elizabeth and/or John may be caught having to defend their feelings and emotions in regard to their actions to these Earth bosses.

[Bama]

The fraternisation rule applies to Officers dating anyone under their chain-of-command. Whilst there are no actual rules being broken if John and Liz get together, there IS a question of personal ethics.

yeah, but *whose* personal ethics? The U.S. president's? *snort* And what may not seem 'ethical' *now* may very well seem quite ethical and indeed logical several years and experiences down the road.

I think a 'near miss' the end of S3 then they hook-up S4. I'm not even talking about a 'near-kiss', just something that shows how aware they are and that they DO want to be together but realise that through timing and circumstance it isn't possible just yet.

I do think that is doable. And your timeline seems logical too SL. I think they need to work on continuing 'awareness' the next year or so and then 'acceptance'. I don't think it would be a bad thing for either or both of them to show they've accepted that they have deep male/female feelings for the other but to also resolve to try and ignore them or work around/thru them. We all know that will prove quite impossible though....

[Major_Moomin]

Hello folks..

New fic over at the shep/weir LJ...not for the faint hearted!

(in other words....it's MATURE!!)

*strokes Rose wilde irish's smutty plot bunny...*

http://www.livejournal.com/users/ros...sh/251146.html

[FoolishPleasure]

Hello folks..

New fic over at the shep/weir LJ...not for the faint hearted!

(in other words....it's MATURE!!)

*strokes Rose wilde irish's smutty plot bunny...*

http://www.livejournal.com/users/ros...sh/251146.html

A little spice with my lunch.

[Melyanna]

I believe the international committee is referring to something on SG-1. Toward the beginning of Season 9, they talked about how funding was possibly going to start coming from more countries than just the US, given international oversight of the program.

And I don't think it's so much that Elizabeth has the approval of this oversight committee. It's that Elizabeth has the support of the President and foreign allies, meaning the people who picked who gets to be on the oversight committee. In some ways, she's above even that committee.

The regulations do state that one needs to maintain professional relationships with civilian employees and civilians under the command of military personnel – the stake through the heart of Shep/Teyla, frankly – but TPTB have made it abundantly clear in SG-1 that a civilian commander is above the fraternization regs. And even more than is the case at the SGC, the Atlantis expedition's civilians seem to exist outside the military's jurisdiction. The Air Force and Marine personnel would still be expected to behave professionally and follow the regulations of their branches of service, but the civilians who aren't on teams would be a totally different ball game.

As Sally mentioned, there's still the matter of personal ethics. I don't think Elizabeth and John would jump into a relationship just because it's not technically against the rules. But at least it's not illegal for them to do so.

And about tonight, I don't think there are any Canadians in the thread, but there are many at the forum, and I'd recommend checking out the Season 2 episode forum. There are a few people who, last season, wrote up some very good episode synopses following the Canadian airings. The episode airs at 8 PM EST.

[SallyLizzie]

yeah, but *whose* personal ethics? The U.S. president's? *snort* And what may not seem 'ethical' *now* may very well seem quite ethical and indeed logical several years and experiences down the road.

The ethics come into play when people like Kavanaugh (sp) start questioning how reliable Liz and John are when dealing with their judgement. Yes, years down the line, TPTB may look back and be able to say that they did a grand job and didn't let their personal relationship affect their professional relationship. Then again, situations may arise where they DO let it get in the way of the job. You just can't tell with these things.

Being back in semi-contact with Earth may or may not help matters.
Whilst the military can't court martial John or Elizabeth, they can make life difficult for them and cause a 'atmosphere' on Atlantis. Conditions, when pushed to the max, can make a person want to leave.
OTOH, if Atlantis personel know that Weir can't be removed, they may be less inclined to spout-off about their feelings as 1) it's not going to make any difference. It will only p!ss off the boss, and 2) the boss can then make life difficult for them, maybe even getting them reassigned back to Earth in the extreme.

I think basically, it comes down to the level of respect that John and ELizabeth have. We're not stupid, we all know what problems may arise, but on the same token we also know that John and ELizabeth are aware of this too, and if their subordinates have faith in them as leaders, then i don't see a problem. Of course i know there WILL be people who are against it, for whatever reason, so i think it would have to come down a majority.

[Bama]

Hello folks..

New fic over at the shep/weir LJ...not for the faint hearted!

(in other words....it's MATURE!!)

*strokes Rose wilde irish's smutty plot bunny...*

http://www.livejournal.com/users/ros...sh/251146.html

Gee, we sure got slutty!Elizabeth in that one didn't we? I would actually hope she has a bit more resistance to John than that.

*Note to self-do NOT click on these links while at work*

[Bama]

I think basically, it comes down to the level of respect that John and ELizabeth have. We're not stupid, we all know what problems may arise, but on the same token we also know that John and ELizabeth are aware of this too, and if their subordinates have faith in them as leaders, then i don't see a problem. Of course i know there WILL be people who are against it, for whatever reason, so i think it would have to come down a majority.

Some good thoughts SL. I think I agree most with this last paragraph though. It ultimately comes down to this point-respect. If the 'underlings' think nothing of John and Elizabeth -together and actually think it -fine or 'right' or 'normal' or 'expected' then it will be all of those things in perception and acceptability. I do think they both have garnered a great deal of respect thus far and I think in time, those under them will just want happiness for them both. I can see this 'respect' idea being real issue and impetus in Elizabeth trying to avoid her own feelings. Don't think it would bother John nearly so much but I could be wrong there.

[Major_Moomin]

Gee, we sure got slutty!Elizabeth in that one didn't we? I would actually hope she has a bit more resistance to John than that.

*Note to self-do NOT click on these links while at work*

...::headdesk::

[Suzotchka]

The ethics come into play when people like Kavanaugh (sp) start questioning how reliable Liz and John are when dealing with their judgement.

And you just know Kavanaugh is going to cause more trouble!

[Southern Red]

And you just know Kavanaugh is going to cause more trouble!

And where is the esteemed Dr. K by the way? There has been a distinct lack of dissent this season. Even John and Eliz haven't been fighting. Poor Colonel Skinner has been left to carry all the burden of complaining. I think because Skinner goes back and forth to Earth regularly, he has more orientation toward the SGC/military than anyone on Atlantis. It probably hasn't crossed his mind that loyalties have shifted in the expedition from Earth/home to Atlantis/home. Everyone seems to like and respect both John and Eliz,so my guess is if they eventually get together most of the 'Lantians will be happy. I can recall several quick little moments of interaction with these two and secondary team members that support that. For example in Duet

Spoiler:

at the end when John says something about getting stuck in Rodney's head would be his worst nightmare, Cadman gives a friendly little laugh and says something cute back to him in such a way that you just know they have a good relationship. Then all the times we've seen Lorne with Weir and even the Marines backing her up in Condemned without question. Shows respect and admiration.

I'm sure there are other examples also. We've heard from Joe M that S3 is going to be darker. I would love to see how John reacted to having to carry on without Eliz around, even for a little while. I'd bet he'd start by complaining about all the work, but in private we'd see him missing having her to talk to. Might wake the boy up.