Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

Happy New Year to you as well! I'm doing okay, but my computer at home is on the fritz and I can only go online when I'm out of the house. I can't post anything for any of my stories either!

I am sorry to know that. And now i know why i haven't seen you around here much lately. Hope the problem with your computer at home will be solved soon.

[Southern Red]

Dear Lord. Who was doing the naming of them in the stories?

The authors, obviously. In Homecoming, at least, there was Guide, Bonewhite, Ember, Death, Farseer, Hivemaster, Steelflower, Precision, Hasten, Edge, Snow, and Smoke. Just to name a few. No wonder we are laughing our butts off. And they completely rewrote the Wraith history making them more like humans.

Thanks Anuna and Lythisrose for chiming in. Obviously, this is a sore subject around here. I know we are probably accused of hating these books because of the Sparky angle, but believe me, that's only the tip of the iceberg. Pretty much every shipper group and every character fan group, with the exception of the Wraith lovers, are not fans of this series. I don't know how they have sold enough books to finish the series. But I guess, whomever is approving them at MGM likes the way things are going. Book sales must not be a priority.

"Fifty Shades of Grey" is a good comparison. Just because books get published and people buy them doesn't make them well written. *shutting up now* Maybe.

[Sparky She-Demon]

I am sorry to know that. And now i know why i haven't seen you around here much lately. Hope the problem with your computer at home will be solved soon.

It should be soon. My uncle is sending an unused laptop to us. I'm not the only one going crazy with the lack of internet. It's driving my mom insane as well.

I'm also planning on getting my stories off the hardrive. I need to do that.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

It should be soon. My uncle is sending an unused laptop to us. I'm not the only one going crazy with the lack of internet. It's driving my mom insane as well.

I'm also planning on getting my stories off the hardrive. I need to do that.

Good luck!

[america126]

i think if the writers of the show had allowed John and Elizabeth to be together say in the sixth or possibly seventh season, it would have been memorable and sweet and so well worth the wait.

Carl Binder intended to write an episode that brought back Elizabeth Weir once again in the show's sixth season

"The reason we brought back the Weir character was in order to tell a story -- potentially a series of stories -- that fans of the character would enjoy. While I think closure it certainly nice, I'd argue that fans would have preferred to leave the door open and seen the character make multiple reappearances rather than ending Weir's story. For instance, the scenario ... 'Team Sheppard successfully rescues Weir and brings her home to Atlantis to recover and rejoin the team?' is not a conclusive end to the storyline but a continuation in a different creative direction.

"In my mind, the original Weir was not destroyed (as the human form Replicators would have us believe). Her body was kept 'on ice' somewhere to serve as a prototype for future study. At the time I wrote 'This Mortal Coil,' I imagined a future storyline that would have involved the team learning of Weir's fate and launching a rescue op. They would have retrieved her and, in the end, Elizabeth would have headed back to Earth for some R&R, leaving the door open for future guest appearances."

[Sparky She-Demon]

I'll be sending you a question over PM concerning the Valentine's Day story I'm planning.

Hey Pearl, you need to clear out your inbox for PM messages.

[Anuna]

The authors, obviously. In Homecoming, at least, there was Guide, Bonewhite, Ember, Death, Farseer, Hivemaster, Steelflower, Precision, Hasten, Edge, Snow, and Smoke. Just to name a few. No wonder we are laughing our butts off. And they completely rewrote the Wraith history making them more like humans.

Thanks Anuna and Lythisrose for chiming in. Obviously, this is a sore subject around here. I know we are probably accused of hating these books because of the Sparky angle, but believe me, that's only the tip of the iceberg. Pretty much every shipper group and every character fan group, with the exception of the Wraith lovers, are not fans of this series. I don't know how they have sold enough books to finish the series. But I guess, whomever is approving them at MGM likes the way things are going. Book sales must not be a priority.

"Fifty Shades of Grey" is a good comparison. Just because books get published and people buy them doesn't make them well written. *shutting up now* Maybe.

And Twilight is a perfect proof. And no, I won't allow that it's a matter of tatse. Twilight is badly written, period.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

I'll be sending you a question over PM concerning the Valentine's Day story I'm planning.

Hey Pearl, you need to clear out your inbox for PM messages.

Sorry about that, try now.

[Sparky She-Demon]

Sorry about that, try now.

Will do!

[Sparky She-Demon]

Hate to sound like a broken record Pearl, but you need to clean house with your PM inbox.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

Hate to sound like a broken record Pearl, but you need to clean house with your PM inbox.

Try now. I am leaving now. Talk to you later, in a couple of hours or so.

[Brie]

Hello everyone!

I‘m not going to go into the whole legacy thing again (have done so before) but I can say that what everyone else here have written is the same opinion that I have on it, it’s just two un-canon (is that a word?) for my taste, and while I haven’t read the books I did pick up the first one in a bookstore, looked and read some on one page and knew it wasn’t for me because it was just to many things that didn’t make sense, only on that one page alone.

And talking about names, how about the names given by the Wraith to the expedition members?

I always thought that by giving them “earth” names was a way to make them seem less scary/dangerous, but I dunno, we never find out what their real names are (though I doubt they have the names that the authors of the legacy books call them) so I’m ok with the names the Atlantis expedition gives them. I also feel that it’s about as far as I’m ok with them seeming a bit more human to still keep the creep factor that we saw in ‘Rising’ becuase I wanted them to keep being the bad guys of the Pegasus Galaxy and didn't want them to loose to much of that. It's also hard to tell becuase while I would have loved to have known more about them, part of the danger about them and their threat was that you didn't know much about them.

i think if the writers of the show had allowed John and Elizabeth to be together say in the sixth or possibly seventh season, it would have been memorable and sweet and so well worth the wait.

Carl Binder intended to write an episode that brought back Elizabeth Weir once again in the show's sixth season

"The reason we brought back the Weir character was in order to tell a story -- potentially a series of stories -- that fans of the character would enjoy. While I think closure it certainly nice, I'd argue that fans would have preferred to leave the door open and seen the character make multiple reappearances rather than ending Weir's story. For instance, the scenario ... 'Team Sheppard successfully rescues Weir and brings her home to Atlantis to recover and rejoin the team?' is not a conclusive end to the storyline but a continuation in a different creative direction.

"In my mind, the original Weir was not destroyed (as the human form Replicators would have us believe). Her body was kept 'on ice' somewhere to serve as a prototype for future study. At the time I wrote 'This Mortal Coil,' I imagined a future storyline that would have involved the team learning of Weir's fate and launching a rescue op. They would have retrieved her and, in the end, Elizabeth would have headed back to Earth for some R&R, leaving the door open for future guest appearances."

Well, we all would have loved to have seen that and that feels canon but the authors of the legacy books have nothing to do with the show, heck, they are no more fan of the show than we are (actually, I’m not sure if they are fans at all) so just because the show runners wanted/said that something would happen doesn’t mean that the legacy books authors will keep to it (since they can’t seem to stick to canon on anything else why would they do it with that, especially since we for some reason didn’t see it happen on the show).

And Twilight is a perfect proof. And no, I won't allow that it's a matter of tatse. Twilight is badly written, period.

Now this I agree with, I’m so not a fan of anything ‘Twilight’ but this isn’t the place to get into that.

[Southern Red]

i think if the writers of the show had allowed John and Elizabeth to be together say in the sixth or possibly seventh season, it would have been memorable and sweet and so well worth the wait.

Carl Binder intended to write an episode that brought back Elizabeth Weir once again in the show's sixth season

"The reason we brought back the Weir character was in order to tell a story -- potentially a series of stories -- that fans of the character would enjoy. While I think closure it certainly nice, I'd argue that fans would have preferred to leave the door open and seen the character make multiple reappearances rather than ending Weir's story. For instance, the scenario ... 'Team Sheppard successfully rescues Weir and brings her home to Atlantis to recover and rejoin the team?' is not a conclusive end to the storyline but a continuation in a different creative direction.

"In my mind, the original Weir was not destroyed (as the human form Replicators would have us believe). Her body was kept 'on ice' somewhere to serve as a prototype for future study. At the time I wrote 'This Mortal Coil,' I imagined a future storyline that would have involved the team learning of Weir's fate and launching a rescue op. They would have retrieved her and, in the end, Elizabeth would have headed back to Earth for some R&R, leaving the door open for future guest appearances."

While this is true, it was just wishful thinking on Carl Binder's part. The writers had lots of ideas that never happened.

This would have been a lovely idea, but ultimately she would still have been gone from the show and never never never would have been shipped with John. It was just not in their plan.

I think the angsty ending we got with the lovely show of emotion from John at losing her and his obvious grief for her in the last two seasons was the best that we could have hoped for. Even that they tried to stop, but thanks to Joe Flanigan, John's emotions were very real.

But if you're hoping for a good ending from those Legacy writers, you will be sadly disappointed.

[Falcon Horus]

What is it with TPTW, and thinking that killing off well loved characters was a *good* idea?

It's their version of adding drama except they then forgot to continue said drama into the next episodes where they simply forget the characters ever existed in the first place.

Sorta going OT again but they wanted an emotional reaction from what they did to our favorite Scotsman and that, they sure as hell did get. Though likely a wee bit more than they expected, they got enough to bring Carson back

Since it was always their plan to bring him back. The moment they killed him, they realized they'd made a mistake by doing so.

Yeah, the fans sure raised a ruckus to get him back. Shame the ruckus didn't work when it came to getting Elizabeth back!

Guess it only works one time with Stargate's TPTW and so that one time was used to bring our favorite Scot back to the show...unknown to us that we'd need the magic to work a second time because 3 episodes later, Liz was downgraded to recurring...and then didn't reoccur after a while.

Because they had no plan to bring her back. Elizabeth was kicked to the curb by Mallozzi and Mullie, while Carson was kicked out under the reign of the other set Wright & Cooper.

Kind of like 50 Shades of Grey?!

That keeps haunting me - every female colleague at work has read it, or is reading it I think. And they can't shut up about it...

...the wacky Wraith names. Those just did me in.

They make me laugh so hard, and it totally takes away their creepiness and ridicules them completely. The Wraith need to be creepy, it's a part of their absolute Wraith charm.

Because supposedly they wanted to "shake things up." Didn't work so well when the fans go on a rampage and the cast says the changes disrupted their chemistry.

They sure did shake things up - just not the way they envisioned.

The authors, obviously. In Homecoming, at least, there was Guide, Bonewhite, Ember, Death, Farseer, Hivemaster, Steelflower, Precision, Hasten, Edge, Snow, and Smoke. Just to name a few. No wonder we are laughing our butts off. And they completely rewrote the Wraith history making them more like humans.

See - those are not creepy names. They just make them look stupid... like when a big dude comes in and everybody cowers away and then he talks with this really high, almost girly-like voice and instead everybody starts laughing at him. Gone is the spectacular entrance or in the Wraith's case their creepy charm.

"Fifty Shades of Grey" is a good comparison. Just because books get published and people buy them doesn't make them well written. *shutting up now* Maybe.

On that subject though - apparently the Dutch translation of 50 Shades made it better than the English version - though still not going to read it. No way josé!

i think if the writers of the show had allowed John and Elizabeth to be together say in the sixth or possibly seventh season, it would have been memorable and sweet and so well worth the wait.

You would have been waiting an eternity for that to happen, especially with TPTW that we had.

And Twilight is a perfect proof. And no, I won't allow that it's a matter of tatse. Twilight is badly written, period.

My sister borrowed the books from a friend, didn't get past page 10 and returned them the next week. She has seen the films which are so bad, she says, they are too hilarious not to watch. Though she says the scoring is very well done.

[Pearl of Atlantis76]

i think if the writers of the show had allowed John and Elizabeth to be together say in the sixth or possibly seventh season, it would have been memorable and sweet and so well worth the wait.

Carl Binder intended to write an episode that brought back Elizabeth Weir once again in the show's sixth season

"The reason we brought back the Weir character was in order to tell a story -- potentially a series of stories -- that fans of the character would enjoy. While I think closure it certainly nice, I'd argue that fans would have preferred to leave the door open and seen the character make multiple reappearances rather than ending Weir's story. For instance, the scenario ... 'Team Sheppard successfully rescues Weir and brings her home to Atlantis to recover and rejoin the team?' is not a conclusive end to the storyline but a continuation in a different creative direction.

"In my mind, the original Weir was not destroyed (as the human form Replicators would have us believe). Her body was kept 'on ice' somewhere to serve as a prototype for future study. At the time I wrote 'This Mortal Coil,' I imagined a future storyline that would have involved the team learning of Weir's fate and launching a rescue op. They would have retrieved her and, in the end, Elizabeth would have headed back to Earth for some R&R, leaving the door open for future guest appearances."

Couldn't agree more!!!


Oh, really?! They should have put Carl Binder in charge of everything!

But we didn't want Elizabeth to end! We wanted her back in the show, back in Atlantis!

So why didn't they give us that story?

I always thought that by giving them “earth” names was a way to make them seem less scary/dangerous, but I dunno, we never find out what their real names are (though I doubt they have the names that the authors of the legacy books call them) so I’m ok with the names the Atlantis expedition gives them. I also feel that it’s about as far as I’m ok with them seeming a bit more human to still keep the creep factor that we saw in ‘Rising’ becuase I wanted them to keep being the bad guys of the Pegasus Galaxy and didn't want them to loose to much of that. It's also hard to tell becuase while I would have loved to have known more about them, part of the danger about them and their threat was that you didn't know much about them.

Yeah, I would have liked to have known more about

Spoiler:

the Wraith’s creation, so to speak, how they came to be and so on. We know they are connected to the Iratus bug, but how come they become kind of half human?

I think the angsty ending we got with the lovely show of emotion from John at losing her and his obvious grief for her in the last two seasons was the best that we could have hoped for. Even that they tried to stop, but thanks to Joe Flanigan, John's emotions were very real.

I agree, because the show (very unfortunately!) ended, but if not, I would have wanted more.