Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

I don't like to think about all the crap the people in the camps had to go through (I wont say Jews because it wasn't just them, there were homosexuals, black people, muslims and disabled people, the list goes on and most people just think it was the Jews who suffered) because it makes me depressed. There were so many people there that most of the world forget about.

It's one genocide among many to this day... no one's gonna forget that easily. It's part of our history, and so it is taught in our schools. And fieldtrips to important places like the battlefields in Ypres. We have one deportation camp in Belgium (in Mechelen), which is now a museum and one concentration camp (Breendonk near Antwerp) where first it was resistance members who were tortured and executed, and later on it was collaborators with the enemy.

[ShWeir]

It's one genocide among many to this day... no one's gonna forget that easily. It's part of our history, and so it is taught in our schools. And fieldtrips to important places like the battlefields in Ypres. We have one deportation camp in Belgium (in Mechelen), which is now a museum and one concentration camp (Breendonk near Antwerp) where first it was resistance members who were tortured and executed, and later on it was collaborators with the enemy.

Yeah, I know no one's forgotten that easily, and I'm not saying it's been wiped from our history, what I am saying is that there are so many deaths that people have forgotten. Most young people these days think the Titanic was a story. Not many people know of the others that died, like the resistance, details like that have been missed out in history classes and so young people think it was just soldiers and Jews that were killed not all the others. Yes it is in our history, and in museums but how many young people really care for history these days, I'm a history teacher, I know how many of the kids don't pay attention in class, and I know that in lessons done by other teachers they don't get taught about people like the resistance. So they are slowly getting forgotten by the younger generation, we know about it, but most of them don't.

[Falcon Horus]

It helps living in a country in which these wars were fought, and where many people still know of a family member who fought either as a soldier or as a resistance fighter. I had a great-granddad who was a resistance fighter who ended up in a camp, and survived to tell the tale.

Where the Commonwealth, German, Belgian military cemetaries are a constant reminder, and where bunkers and craters of mines are still visible in the landscape. Silent witnesses, and proof of what happened here. We were right in the middle of it... in a manner of speaking.

Anyhow, writing a story might bring knowledge to people who haven't been paying attention in history class.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Pretty Friday!

Madness reigns, that artwork spam was fabulous!

Thanks Have been going through old artwork for the 1st Anniversary of the AfA tread and found them lurking at the bottom of my PB account - interesting to see how much my art has changes over the past year

Whoa, these have just been sitting around for a while? You've got an impressive backlog!

The Holocaust Museum here in DC is the same way, the most emotional experience I have ever had. I've seen teenagers fall silent when they walk in. Everyone needs to see it because if you really think about it, you'll understand that it can happen again very easily. All we have to do is follow along blindly and not stand up to evil.

Negotiating with the Wraith would kind of be like going along with the Nazis I think.

Yeah, those scenes in Condemned where we find out the Olesians have basically sold their souls to the devil, so to speak, are pretty chilling. I wonder if TPTW had considered the Nazi collaborator angle when they were writing this one.

It's frightening to think about how people think, "oh, that happened so long ago, it could never happen now." Thinking that way is exactly why it keeps happening even today.

[Southern Red]

Yeah, I know no one's forgotten that easily, and I'm not saying it's been wiped from our history, what I am saying is that there are so many deaths that people have forgotten. Most young people these days think the Titanic was a story. Not many people know of the others that died, like the resistance, details like that have been missed out in history classes and so young people think it was just soldiers and Jews that were killed not all the others. Yes it is in our history, and in museums but how many young people really care for history these days, I'm a history teacher, I know how many of the kids don't pay attention in class, and I know that in lessons done by other teachers they don't get taught about people like the resistance. So they are slowly getting forgotten by the younger generation, we know about it, but most of them don't.

And the most frightening thing is that the history books are slowly dropping subjects and condensing wars and so on down to a page or two. Plus the rewriting of history seems to be in the hands of the network news these days with their blatant lies and outright obfuscation of facts. How are young people to judge? If their teachers tell them something, they tend to believe it. But I know firsthand from looking at textbooks, that a lot of it is biased and just plain wrong.

We must get our news from a variety of sources, read opposing views and take it all with a grain of salt.

[Falcon Horus]

It's frightening to think about how people think, "oh, that happened so long ago, it could never happen now." Thinking that way is exactly why it keeps happening even today.

It's still happening. - that's what I tell people who think like that

And yeah, I just made a character list, added a few new ones, and their background. The pilot and the patron of the Pegasus cafe get married and she moves with him to the States to live out the remainder of their lives (guess who? ). I also set a time frame for my fic, which is possible since I didn't have a time frame in mind when I originally wrote the part I already have. I've decided to start on the 17th of December 1943 and end the first part somewhere in 1946, and the intro will be present day 2012 (2013 depends when I finish).

I'm sorta excited...

[Falcon Horus]

Sidenote: Oye, who knew building a family tree could be this hard.

[Brie]

Hello everyone! I just got back from a day of dress shopping and I’m completely exhausted but I’ve found a dress for my aunts wedding so now I don’t have to think about that (now it’s all about jewelry, and shoes etc. but the dress is the hardest part).

WWII and the times around it will always be a dark chapter of our history but the sad part is that we really haven’t learned from it, we still live in a world where there is so much hatred and anger and war and suffering, and it’s become such a sickly normal part of our everyday life that it doesn’t have the same effect on us as it should.

I read somewhere that a teacher at a school had tried to teach their class about what happened at this time by electing two leaders and let them make all the decisions (like who could be in their group, who wasn’t aloud near them all kinds of things) and at first no one understood what it had to do with anything and what doing it would teach the students about what happened and how easy it would be for it to happen again. Now I don’t remember exactly how it went during the actual course but I do remember how frighteningly real the end result was and some of the classmates almost got hurt when one of the leaders went too far and told people that if they wanted to be in his group they had to do this and that. I remember it defiantly showed how easy it would be for it to happen again.

[Brie]

I was thinking of something when I saw ‘Progeny’ on TV how many times John says “Are you ok?” and how I love the way he says it, his voice and eyes are so full of concern and it’s always directed to Elizabeth.

So far I’ve counted three of them.

The end of ‘the eye’ when John saves her from Kolya:



The infirmary scene in ‘The Long Goodbye’ when Elizabeth wakes up for the first time after being hit by Phoebus black-box beam.



And in the scene in ‘Progeny’ after John saves her from Niam’s attack.



It’s obvious that it’s REAL concern he’s feeling and it’s funny in all these scenes that his eyes doesn’t leave hers until he gets a response and then he always breathe a sigh of relief

[Southern Red]

Hello everyone! I just got back from a day of dress shopping and I’m completely exhausted but I’ve found a dress for my aunts wedding so now I don’t have to think about that (now it’s all about jewelry, and shoes etc. but the dress is the hardest part).

WWII and the times around it will always be a dark chapter of our history but the sad part is that we really haven’t learned from it, we still live in a world where there is so much hatred and anger and war and suffering, and it’s become such a sickly normal part of our everyday life that it doesn’t have the same effect on us as it should.

I read somewhere that a teacher at a school had tried to teach their class about what happened at this time by electing two leaders and let them make all the decisions (like who could be in their group, who wasn’t aloud near them all kinds of things) and at first no one understood what it had to do with anything and what doing it would teach the students about what happened and how easy it would be for it to happen again. Now I don’t remember exactly how it went during the actual course but I do remember how frighteningly real the end result was and some of the classmates almost got hurt when one of the leaders went too far and told people that if they wanted to be in his group they had to do this and that. I remember it defiantly showed how easy it would be for it to happen again.

I remember something like that too, but I also remember that the teacher got in trouble and the parents and administrators were all shocked that she would do such a thing. Idiots. What better way to teach the kids?

I was thinking of something when I saw ‘Progeny’ on TV how many times John says “Are you ok?” and how I love the way he says it, his voice and eyes are so full of concern and it’s always directed to Elizabeth.

So far I’ve counted three of them.

The end of ‘the eye’ when John saves her from Kolya:

http://i50.tinypic.com/20zv3bm.jpg

The infirmary scene in ‘The Long Goodbye’ when Elizabeth wakes up for the first time after being hit by Phoebus black-box beam.

http://i45.tinypic.com/25gf6rq.jpg

And in the scene in ‘Progeny’ after John saves her from Niam’s attack.

http://i48.tinypic.com/30k4riw.jpg

It’s obvious that it’s REAL concern he’s feeling and it’s funny in all these scenes that his eyes doesn’t leave hers until he gets a response and then he always breathe a sigh of relief

Indeed he did. He was always very concerned about her. Think about how he stayed right by her side in BIS and was concerned about how she was feeling. Then when he sought her out after hours at the end of TRW just to check up on her and stayed awake all night listening to her struggle with getting rid of Phoebus in TLG. Sounds like someone who cares deeply to me.

[CaptainMina90]

I was thinking of something when I saw ‘Progeny’ on TV how many times John says “Are you ok?” and how I love the way he says it, his voice and eyes are so full of concern and it’s always directed to Elizabeth.

So far I’ve counted three of them.

The end of ‘the eye’ when John saves her from Kolya:



The infirmary scene in ‘The Long Goodbye’ when Elizabeth wakes up for the first time after being hit by Phoebus black-box beam.



And in the scene in ‘Progeny’ after John saves her from Niam’s attack.



It’s obvious that it’s REAL concern he’s feeling and it’s funny in all these scenes that his eyes doesn’t leave hers until he gets a response and then he always breathe a sigh of relief

interesting topic

there's the scene in "this mortal coil" when Elizabeth is sitting alone in the back of the jumper and John comes to her and asks her "You doing ok?" and then he comforts her with "Everything will be fine".

The other scene I know is in "Lifeline" when she decides to go on the mission and he conforts her with " You’re gonna be OK, Elizabeth". ok, he doesn't really ask her, if she's fine but I think it's quite the same.

[Southern Red]

interesting topic

there's the scene in "this mortal coil" when Elizabeth is sitting alone in the back of the jumper and John comes to her and asks her "You doing ok?" and then he comforts her with "Everything will be fine".

The other scene I know is in "Lifeline" when she decides to go on the mission and he conforts her with " You’re gonna be OK, Elizabeth". ok, he doesn't really ask her, if she's fine but I think it's quite the same.

Good observations. It was like he was trying to convince himself because the thought of being without her would be more than he could handle. And I think both in TMC when he tries to convince her to stay even though she was not the real Elizabeth, and again in GitM when he asks Woolsey "What if one of them decides to stay?", he wants her back no matter what and is perfectly willing to accept both forms of her. That just tells me he is still grieving and most likely will never stop.

[Brie]

Indeed he did. He was always very concerned about her. Think about how he stayed right by her side in BIS and was concerned about how she was feeling. Then when he sought her out after hours at the end of TRW just to check up on her and stayed awake all night listening to her struggle with getting rid of Phoebus in TLG. Sounds like someone who cares deeply to me.

The thing I noticed was that he always stayed by her side whenever something happened or had happened earlier, say in the previous episode, say in ‘BIS’ which happened right after ‘Sanctuary’ but also in ‘Coup d’etat’ which happened right after ‘TLG’, now I get that he was military commander and in charge of security but it was almost always like he took it one step further and became her own personal bodyguard. You could also always tell when Elizabeth got into trouble of some sort and he wasn’t there then or couldn’t help her that he always felt guilty about it and did everything he could to make it up to her even when it wasn’t his fault at all (say ‘the eye’ and ‘TRW’ to name a few) and again, non of them were his fault in any way but it’s obvious that his care for her ran way deeper than just a guy being in charge of security and who is the military commander of Atlantis as a whole. And while he defiantly cared for all of his friends he never really went out of his way to make sure that they were ok even hours later, it was like he couldn’t relax unless he knew that she would be ok.

interesting topic

there's the scene in "this mortal coil" when Elizabeth is sitting alone in the back of the jumper and John comes to her and asks her "You doing ok?" and then he comforts her with "Everything will be fine".

The other scene I know is in "Lifeline" when she decides to go on the mission and he conforts her with " You’re gonna be OK, Elizabeth". ok, he doesn't really ask her, if she's fine but I think it's quite the same.

Not the exact same words but defiantly the same meaning and I just love those scenes even if they are really sad.

Good observations. It was like he was trying to convince himself because the thought of being without her would be more than he could handle. And I think both in TMC when he tries to convince her to stay even though she was not the real Elizabeth, and again in GitM when he asks Woolsey "What if one of them decides to stay?", he wants her back no matter what and is perfectly willing to accept both forms of her. That just tells me he is still grieving and most likely will never stop.

Seeing her go and not being able to do anything about it almost destroyed him that’s for sure and I think is the big reason for his change in the last two seasons. From his words it was obvious like you pointed out that he would have done whatever he could to get her to stay and live with them him, I wish they could have used it more though, because even if some of the writers weren’t fans of either Elizabeth or John they could have done a lot more with the whole thing to do something great with the character, it was like he said in ‘The Seige pt 2’ when Col. Everett confronted him about Col. Sumner’s death that not a night had gone by where he hadn’t relived that moment and I bet it was the same thing with both Ford and Elizabeth as well as everyone else (Carson too though his death really was a terrible accident) and the way the burden he carried because of the guilt we know he felt.

[ShWeir]

I'm going to the olympics tommorow!!! If anyone's watching the womens hockey look out for some crazy people with a heap of GB stuff!!!!!!!

[Brie]

I'm going to the olympics tommorow!!! If anyone's watching the womens hockey look out for some crazy people with a heap of GB stuff!!!!!!!

Have fun. I’m going to go and watch Stockholm pride parade tomorrow so I will probably miss it but I hope you’ll have a great time.