Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

gateraid, you've still got the touch!

*hugs all those lovely pics of John and Elizabeth mirroring each other and sighs*

Ah, alas poor Keller, I knew her well. So to speak.

Great minds! Hello! I thought of this very scene when I read your last post. Carson had barely gotten back and he just took over and she let him. And everybody else just went along. They were probably glad he was back. I thought she was a good doc but again, even if she was young, they could have had her be a bit more mature. I didn't mind it so much but a lot of posters hated it in S&R when she talked to John about playing with his insides. And they said Elizabeth didn't have a good bedside manner. Sheesh.

That line annoyed me more because of how unprofessional it seemed in contrast to her much more professional attitude in FS/Adrift/Lifeline. Plus it just seemed that John was kinda squicked out by the line, too.

It was certainly a little odd how TPTW made such a fuss about how Keller was going to be so awesome, and then when Carson came back, he was totally the Kick Ass Doctor from Day 1.

I thought Keller and John had a good rapport, so that remark didn't bother me. I loved the scene when they put Carson in stasis and John had a quiet talk with Keller and told her to get some rest. It was sweet, and shipping them would have made a lot more sense than shipping her with McKay. *dodges rotten veggies* Not that I would have gone there.

And then there's that bit from Adrift where she's talking to John so gently about Elizabeth's condition. I have to agree with you about shipping her with John making more sense than shipping her with McKay. But yeah, I wouldn't have gone there either. Because, yo, SHEPPARD/WEIR OTP!!!!! LOL!

But then, as TPTB were known to do, they went on to overuse her to the extreme in S5 and turn off just about everybody while telling us how we were going to love her. Didn't they know by then that we didn't like to be told what to think?

Gee, kinda like how they tried to tell us that we were going to love Carter in S4. Except they practically wallpapered her. Einstein was right about the definition of insanity. *shakes head*

[Brie]

Hi everyone and thank you for all the ’get well’ wishes, I do feel much better today.

gateraid – those pic fics were amazing and hysterical.

And oh, hot dang, just realized I will not be here for the "Conversion" snark-a-thon. Dang it!

I hope that you’re feeling better and it sucks that you won’t be here for Sundays post-a-thon.

Thanks, SW!!!

Since we got to talking about missing discussions from TLG and TRW this little ficlet for TRW kept screaming at me to write it. I'm not sure about it though. I think I may have took the ending a little too far.

Spoiler:

Sparky heart-to-heart

Lieutenant Colonel John Sheppard sat in his room working on a Sudoku book because he couldn’t sleep. While Dr. Elizabeth Weir had been cleared by Dr. Carson Beckett, he was still worried about her. The few hours she had fought with the nanites for control of her own body had seemed like centuries to John.

If he was being honest with himself, John knew exactly why he was so worried about Elizabeth. He was just not ready to admit how madly in love he was with Elizabeth to himself or to her. Yet. Thankfully his door chimed to distract him from his musings.

As if summoned by his thoughts, Elizabeth now stood in his doorway looking a little unsure of herself.

“Do you have a moment, John,” asked Elizabeth.

“For you,” answered John. “Always. Please come in.”

“John, I can’t go through that again,” began Elizabeth. She had decided to just come out and say it. She’d deal with John’s response after. “I will not become a threat to the city or you. If the nanites become active again and Carson or Rodney can’t shut them off, I want you to end my life.”

“Elizabeth,” began John before she cut him off again.

“John, I know how much you care for me,” said Elizabeth trying to quell the protest she saw forming on his lips. “Believe me the feeling is mutual. But you have no idea what the nanites put me through. For awhile I thought I was back on Earth negotiating treaties. Some how you kept showing up as this shadowy figure. Right at the end, you came in crystal clear and I knew what I had to do to get back here. I have no idea what could happen if I loose to them. You can’t let that happen. Please promise me.”

“If I have to,” began John reluctantly. “You have me word, Elizabeth. If your nanites cause you to become a threat to the city, I’ll end your life before you can bring any harm to us. I have one condition, however. Since we both know how much we care for each other now, I want to see if we can make things work between us. IOA be damned.”

“Well,” said Elizabeth before kissing John tenderly on the cheek. “Can you settle for just that until I check with Carson if there is anyway I might spread my nanites to anyone else?”

“I’ll take it as a promise on many wonderful things to come,” said John as he escorted Elizabeth to his door.

That was great, I can defiantly imagine them having a moment like that in between episodes, as well as many other moments they must have missed out on but that were obviously there.

[Brie]

You still got it, gateraid, don't ever change. Actually, I feel the opposite about Keller. While I never really disliked her, I liked her better in S4 in the early episodes. Trio just killed her for me. Her character seemed to get more silly by the minute there, but I liked how she dealt with Elizabeth's injury and especially how she related to John in S4. Putting her with McKay was just such a bad decision, I can't imagine why they thought the fans would like it. I always felt sorry for Jewel.

Now, to get serious. On Keller, I really think it was the youth issue. They wrote her like a college coed at times and then tried to make us accept her as CMO. Not gonna work.

I agree with you on that one, I did like Keller in the beginning even if I do feel like they send some weird mixed signals when they first tried to make Keller this insecure person who grew-up while being in the Pegasus galaxy but then also have her be this almost wonder child and this amazing doctor and it didn’t really fit together and while I do get the idea and I’m all for personal growth and know that it’s very important when it came to Keller it was as if it turned her into two different characters. I still think that the best thing to have kept Keller the way they wrote her would have been to have made her maybe a doctor in training or something to help Carson that way she could have stayed the same character as they had her but she wouldn’t have to have had the entire Atlantis expeditions health resting on her shoulders.

[Brie]

That is a fascinating observation about the subtle shift in John's behavior post-TLG. Crafty boy, isn't he?

That he is
Another thing that I always thought about was the way that in ‘Progeny’ when the replicators get into John’s head there was a lot of Sparky moments, especially a lot of eye!sex moments, it was as if they knew that they needed to have at least a bit of that to make sure that John wouldn’t expect there to be something wrong, and hey, they didn’t add anything that wasn’t already in John’s mind, hence, one can also add the end scene of TRW when even though John was joking in a way to cheer her up one can ask why being in her prescience he would believe in some way or at least mention that he might be in his own dream, because again, the replicators and the nanites always seem to use what a person already thought or, in Elizabeth’s place, feared deep inside, even if it’s never mentioned on the show. Then it was also the scene in ‘Submersion’ that we have thought about before, where when Teyla needs to trick the wraith queen into believing their plan and Teyla shows her another eye!sex scene, I guess we can at least say that if nothing else, both the wraith and the replicators both must believe that something is going on.

What were TPTB trying to tell us about the Sparky bond? Zip, zilch, nada. To them, there was no bond. They barely knew each other. Elizabeth was General Hammond, remember. John hardly saw her as a woman. I wonder how they would explain all the things we saw as ship. The balcony? Well, he was out there sometimes with Carter and Woolsey, so just two leaders having a talk away from the underlings. The desk sitting? Well, John is sometimes very casual. He leans, he sits sideways in his chair, he sits on desks. Perfectly innocent. We already were told "A hug is just a hug", so we got that. And the kiss wasn't them, so nobody should see that as shippy. Carrying her in his arms? Faster than calling for help. Besides, everybody was busy and we all know John wanted to hurry down to the infirmary to see how Teyla was anyway. Why can't you people see all this?

Let's face it. They just didn't think like we do.

There's no telling what they left out for fear of ship misinterpretation. Like them having a talk about prolonging life or him apologizing to her for choking her. We already know they would never have had any sort of reaction from him from S4 onward if it hadn't been for Joe. We're lucky we got as much as we did.

Haha, love that but I do agree, TPTB always had more of a tell rather than show idea for their writing, it’s funny how now when you look at especially these character boards and especially the most popular pairings it’s more those that people saw rather than what the PTB told us about that people seem to have enjoyed more (not only just a bit more).

[Brie]

Gee, kinda like how they tried to tell us that we were going to love Carter in S4. Except they practically wallpapered her. Einstein was right about the definition of insanity. *shakes head*

You know to make myself feel better I like to think that when it comes to Carter and no one really having a problem with her is because of Elizabeth’s great leadership and the way she brought them all together (because no one can deny that she did) and they felt that the best way to honor her and what she stood for was to keep the expedition intact and working…like I said, it makes me feel better thinking of it that way even if we all know it really wasn’t how it was.

[Nolamom]

Screw the Angst you say?

[Scary Kitty]

That he is
Another thing that I always thought about was the way that in ‘Progeny’ when the replicators get into John’s head there was a lot of Sparky moments, especially a lot of eye!sex moments, it was as if they knew that they needed to have at least a bit of that to make sure that John wouldn’t expect there to be something wrong, and hey, they didn’t add anything that wasn’t already in John’s mind, hence, one can also add the end scene of TRW when even though John was joking in a way to cheer her up one can ask why being in her prescience he would believe in some way or at least mention that he might be in his own dream, because again, the replicators and the nanites always seem to use what a person already thought or, in Elizabeth’s place, feared deep inside, even if it’s never mentioned on the show. Then it was also the scene in ‘Submersion’ that we have thought about before, where when Teyla needs to trick the wraith queen into believing their plan and Teyla shows her another eye!sex scene, I guess we can at least say that if nothing else, both the wraith and the replicators both must believe that something is going on.

And let's not forget how Kolya always kept needling John about Elizabeth. If the bad guys keep acting like something's going on, then something's definitely going on.

Screw the Angst you say?

AHAHAHAH! Now that's what I'm talking about!

[Brie]

Screw the Angst you say?

Love it.

And let's not forget how Kolya always kept needling John about Elizabeth. If the bad guys keep acting like something's going on, then something's definitely going on.

Haha, yeah and if it’s one thing we’ve learned from the movies is when the bad guy wants to get to the protagonist he/she always goes for the one closest to the heroes heart.

[ShWeir]

Screw the Angst you say?

That's it!

[TheLadyMore]

Since I am a giant nerd and listen to music and associate it with characters and pairings I got two more songs to add to the Massive Playlist of Spark

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNrQOUtXYOo

[mandogater]

Loved it! My favorite line? "IOA be damned."

*does fist pump*

Thanks, SW!! I just had to put that in there.

Just to update on the interview. After 15 minutes, I was on the floor of the warehouse to see how I'd do. I get to go back tomorrow. I think that's a good sign. How about you all?

[ShipperWriter]

*pops in*

So I traded cars with my mom so I could drop hers off for an oil change, and when we switched later and she's driving home, her check engine light goes off. So she thinks she can't drive her car tomorrow, and I'm supposed to be driving out of town. I've got a bad feeling about this.

Anyhow. In regards to the Keller discussion, I was disappointed with how they wrote her in S4. In FS, she comes across as the young immature doctor who's suddenly thrown into a tough situation that she wasn't expecting at all, but she pulled her big girl panties up and made the tough call in connection with the first surgery on Elizabeth's brain. Then after she and McKay reactivated the nanites (which was originally her idea but because Rodney was the one who proposed it and then took the lead, he got blamed for it ...) she disappeared for the rest of the episode. And then during S4, like it was said, she became a college co-ed. *shakes head* They had a great opportunity to make her grow a little bit in each episode, as she became more comfortable with her position, but they dropped the ball. Much like they did on a few other subjects.

And Brie, I totally agree with that last statement! Which just makes me wish even more that scene from "Remnants" where "Kolya" is sneering at John about the people he's let down (including Elizabeth) had actually made it onscreen. The more alien species in Pegasus that see there was something going on, the better.

[ShipperWriter]

Thanks, SW!! I just had to put that in there.

Just to update on the interview. After 15 minutes, I was on the floor of the warehouse to see how I'd do. I get to go back tomorrow. I think that's a good sign. How about you all?

Awesome! I hope everything continues to go well! With the economy being as insane as it is, it seems like you have to commit murder to get a job.

[ShipperWriter]

Screw the Angst you say?

Awesome, as usual!

*sends more virtual green*

[mandogater]

What were TPTB trying to tell us about the Sparky bond? Zip, zilch, nada. To them, there was no bond. They barely knew each other. Elizabeth was General Hammond, remember. John hardly saw her as a woman. I wonder how they would explain all the things we saw as ship. The balcony? Well, he was out there sometimes with Carter and Woolsey, so just two leaders having a talk away from the underlings. The desk sitting? Well, John is sometimes very casual. He leans, he sits sideways in his chair, he sits on desks. Perfectly innocent. We already were told "A hug is just a hug", so we got that. And the kiss wasn't them, so nobody should see that as shippy. Carrying her in his arms? Faster than calling for help. Besides, everybody was busy and we all know John wanted to hurry down to the infirmary to see how Teyla was anyway. Why can't you people see all this?

Let's face it. They just didn't think like we do.

There's no telling what they left out for fear of ship misinterpretation. Like them having a talk about prolonging life or him apologizing to her for choking her. We already know they would never have had any sort of reaction from him from S4 onward if it hadn't been for Joe. We're lucky we got as much as we did.

I guess they just think we're totally nuts. And if that is the case, than sanity is way over rated.