Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

I was a little late and put them in fourth. Does that still count?

Yup, it does.

You too get fic!

[TheLadyMore]

Most likely. Considering his abandonment issues, he's afraid to take a chance on rejection. *hugs him*

That or I see/interpet it as John is afraid to get too close or he will lose them. I think if indeed his mother died when he was at a young age, he would see relationships like that. Because as a psychology soon to be Art Threapy major one of the first thing that is drilled into our heads is Freud suggested that whatever happens in childhood is carried on into adulthood.

While we're on the subject just a little possible idea for Rising if you follow that route (or if I approached it) John is a bit too fearful to get close to Elizabeth, because I see after he lost her for the first time, his irrational idea of people going away in the end will be deffinitely solidified....I think he's just as scared with his team members.

[Southern Red]

That or I see/interpet it as John is afraid to get too close or he will lose them. I think if indeed his mother died when he was at a young age, he would see relationships like that. Because as a psychology soon to be Art Threapy major one of the first thing that is drilled into our heads is Freud suggested that whatever happens in childhood is carried on into adulthood.

While we're on the subject just a little possible idea for Rising if you follow that route (or if I approached it) John is a bit too fearful to get close to Elizabeth, because I see after he lost her for the first time, his irrational idea of people going away in the end will be deffinitely solidified....I think he's just as scared with his team members.

That makes sense. John had already had a lot of loss before he came to Atlantis and it just began right away all over again.

One of the few things Freud was correct about. I'm surprised they are still teaching him. He was a mess.

[Scary Kitty]

That or I see/interpet it as John is afraid to get too close or he will lose them. I think if indeed his mother died when he was at a young age, he would see relationships like that. Because as a psychology soon to be Art Threapy major one of the first thing that is drilled into our heads is Freud suggested that whatever happens in childhood is carried on into adulthood.

While we're on the subject just a little possible idea for Rising if you follow that route (or if I approached it) John is a bit too fearful to get close to Elizabeth, because I see after he lost her for the first time, his irrational idea of people going away in the end will be deffinitely solidified....I think he's just as scared with his team members.

I agree with SR, that's a very logical scenario for the development of John's views/fears of relationships. As for how things go in Rising, I think we've been considering that already.

[TheLadyMore]

That makes sense. John had already had a lot of loss before he came to Atlantis and it just began right away all over again.

One of the few things Freud was correct about. I'm surprised they are still teaching him. He was a mess.

Its part of the requirements for basic psychology. I think hes a quack....that idea that the daughter is closer to the dad is BS....Im closer to my mom.

[JT-2]

ARGH! GW just ate my whole post!

Kidney stone! Since it sounds like you are home now I hope you had an easy time passing it. I remember when my dad had one. The seem really painful.

Thanks. Haven't passed it, but it's being quiet so I'm just happy with that.

<snip>Then the fic bunnies finish drinking their carrot liquer and start beating me with shot glasses, telling me to concentrate on my other WIPs. Maybe try to actually finish one of them!!!

Then I wake up, wondering why I am dreaming about drunk bunnies.

My brain totally went here, after reading that:

Spoiler:

Oooh, sorry to hear that. A high school friend of mine just had one and we got all the excruciating details on FB. She had to have the lithotripsy thing done. Ick. But she's okay now. This comes under "you know you're getting old when". LOL

I've had that a few times. I started getting them in my mid-20s, so I guess I'm just really lucky [/sarcasm]

I didn't notice but you are welcome to follow me. You'll find a bunch of us on there being snarky and sarcastic. If you don't mind the occasional political retweet, you'll be right at home. Don't forget to follow Joe and David. David in particular tweets a lot.

I added you back. Snark and sarcasm are 2 of my favorite things. I also added KrisRussell and SK. They were the only ones I was sure of. I'm mathgirl24 over there too. I thought about using that for my name here, but feared everyone would think I'm a weirdo (before getting to know me, and knowing that the weirdo label is actually valid ). And now, knowing my initials mean something else, well, the stubborn part of me refuses to change it. (whoa that was some serious comma abuse)

I love that whole CD actually. "Hidden Away" is a great Sparky song and so is "Higher Window".

Ooh that song is great too! Another one to get on the iPod. My mom wanted to see him in concert, but the closest he ever came was Boston. That's too far to take her.

I go in circles as to which Austen is my favorite. It has passed between P&P, Persuasion, Emma and Mansfield Park at least 4 times a piece. Northanger Abbey even won a top slot at one point. Austen could tell such a good story--but there is so much more to her writing than just the plots. The genius of Northanger Abbey's mock of Gothic romance books is simply amazing when you step back and analyze in a literary context. And the social microcosm of Mansfield Park. I so bow to that woman.

It also helps that ever new film adaptation introduces really hot actors as versions of the characters.

Well, yes, that always helps. I know that it was acceptable at the time, but I can't get over the cousins thing in Mansfield Park. I love the Gwyneth Paltrow version of Emma (Jeremy Northam... drool). My favorite Persuasion version is the Amanda Root one. The people in that are more normal looking, but it's so beautifully done. Ok, ok, Ciarán Hinds... drool.

I think they put the War and Peace stuff in before they decided John wasn't Mensa material after all. Personally, I doubt he'd be reading something like that. It's boring as hell. Yes, I said it. I was one of those people in Lit class who was never asked what I really thought about a work. LOL

John and existentialism. No, just no. Maybe Metamorphosis until he decided that what's his face should have just shot himself and gotten it over with. But no, the bug factor would have turned him off. Though it would have been funny for Elizabeth to be reading it and see his reaction. LOL

The dumbing down of John was one of my many complaints about the later seasons. One of those season 5 Daniel episodes had this so bad I almost threw something at the screen. I'm going to start my S4/S5 rewatch soon (and posting my reviews on LJ - hopefully I'll have something to say). I'm not looking forward to those moments.

That makes sense. John had already had a lot of loss before he came to Atlantis and it just began right away all over again.

One of the few things Freud was correct about. I'm surprised they are still teaching him. He was a mess.

You mean men aren't all in love with their mothers? And I really hope my dreams aren't symbolic or I am a very screwed up woman!

[JT-2]

Oops found a post I forgot to respond to..

Oh, don't get me started on the dumb military guy characterization. I am liable to go off and rattle the windows. It's up there with the dumb football player. You go out there and try to remember all those plays. The soldier, especially in a war zone, has to remember a ton of stuff. And all while being shot at.

Totally, totally agree! For both types of situations, you have to be smart and good under pressure. I've seen some football movies where they discuss strategy and sometimes I'm like "the what now?" Are they X's or O's?

I also don't totally buy into the angle that John isn't good at talking to people. Take S1 for example, how many times did he go out to new planets and negotiate. I think in The Storm, he handled that snarky guy very well. Also Cowen, the Hoffans and a ton of others. Maybe it's just when the focus is on him and it's an emotional issue that he has a problem. Food for discussion.

YES, this precisely. I guess that's one way I'm similar to John. You want me to start discussing my feelings with someone and my brain goes . It's not that I don't know my feelings but I don't want to discuss them so much. I get complaints from friends and family about it, and even had a few Sateda type conversations where people try to fill in my blanks.

[Southern Red]

Oops found a post I forgot to respond to..


Totally, totally agree! For both types of situations, you have to be smart and good under pressure. I've seen some football movies where they discuss strategy and sometimes I'm like "the what now?" Are they X's or O's?



YES, this precisely. I guess that's one way I'm similar to John. You want me to start discussing my feelings with someone and my brain goes . It's not that I don't know my feelings but I don't want to discuss them so much. I get complaints from friends and family about it, and even had a few Sateda type conversations where people try to fill in my blanks.

You made me think of something. The Sateda conversation you are referring to. I see that as John just letting people fill in the blanks for him so he won't have to. Sometimes it may have absolutely nothing to do with reality. Like with Teyla when she implied that he didn't have friends and he seemed to be insulted. Yet for some reason she thought that. I wonder why. Did he spend a lot of time in his room reading War and Peace? Was he never seen with anyone but the team, Elizabeth and maybe Carson? Did he not take part in the social activities? Puzzlement.

Oh and if you found some of us on Twitter, you can probably figure out some others. Anuna is there also. We are presently planning our move to a remote island where it seems I have volunteered to milk goats. If you have a survival skill, you may join us. We plan to subsist on goat cheese, wine and my homemade bread. Plus have lovely music, a veggie garden and the men will fish. Needless to say it has been named Sparky Island.

[Scary Kitty]

You made me think of something. The Sateda conversation you are referring to. I see that as John just letting people fill in the blanks for him so he won't have to. Sometimes it may have absolutely nothing to do with reality. Like with Teyla when she implied that he didn't have friends and he seemed to be insulted. Yet for some reason she thought that. I wonder why. Did he spend a lot of time in his room reading War and Peace? Was he never seen with anyone but the team, Elizabeth and maybe Carson? Did he not take part in the social activities? Puzzlement.

Sometimes, I wonder if he does it as much to indulge his playfulness, to simply be silly, as it is to avoid subjects that he doesn't want to talk about.

As for Sparky Island, I think we'll have to invite Joe and his family to live there as well. Joe would probably be really sad if he doesn't get to play in the garden too. And hey! He can have a beehive and make honey for us!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

let me ask you guys this? could you ever see john and elizabeth divorced? cause i was thinking of that we always see them as getting together or are together in some stories but it would be nice to see them as a divorce couple and seeing where their marriage went wrong and some how try to figure out how they could solve it.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

John demonstrated a few moments where he showed he was smarter than the average grunt. I guess it was mostly in Season 1, but I remember one time where McKay condescendingly goes "Do you have any idea how many possible addresses there are?" And John answers him correctly. I think that was very early on, maybe Rising?

Or the time in Season1 or 2 where John calculates how many years it would take them to rescue McKay by Puddle Jumper if he gets stranded far from Atlantis without hyperdrive.

They made a reference to John almost being in MENSA in Season 5 though.

[mandogater]

Yup you win a cookie

Chocolate chunk if you please.

[mandogater]

Yup, it does.

You too get fic!

Yay! *Does happy dance*

[Southern Red]

Sometimes, I wonder if he does it as much to indulge his playfulness, to simply be silly, as it is to avoid subjects that he doesn't want to talk about.

As for Sparky Island, I think we'll have to invite Joe and his family to live there as well. Joe would probably be really sad if he doesn't get to play in the garden too. And hey! He can have a beehive and make honey for us!

Sounds good. There has to be surfing. I'm sure he would probably agree with us on our original reason for moving there. I guess I'll have to open a one room schoolhouse.

let me ask you guys this? could you ever see john and elizabeth divorced? cause i was thinking of that we always see them as getting together or are together in some stories but it would be nice to see them as a divorce couple and seeing where their marriage went wrong and some how try to figure out how they could solve it.

No, too soap opera. But Anuna's story Of Sunday Fathers and Melted Ice Cream is similar to that idea.

John demonstrated a few moments where he showed he was smarter than the average grunt. I guess it was mostly in Season 1, but I remember one time where McKay condescendingly goes "Do you have any idea how many possible addresses there are?" And John answers him correctly. I think that was very early on, maybe Rising?

Or the time in Season1 or 2 where John calculates how many years it would take them to rescue McKay by Puddle Jumper if he gets stranded far from Atlantis without hyperdrive.

They made a reference to John almost being in MENSA in Season 5 though.

They did all that early on, and I forget which ep but once he tells Elizabeth "coulda been Mensa" when she praises his idea. Yet by S5 they never miss an opportunity to make him look stupid. The way Daniel and Rodney made fun of him made my blood boil. And Martin Gero saying on the commentary that nobody was going to believe that Sheppard could have been Mensa made me want to shake him.

[Eri13]

You made me think of something. The Sateda conversation you are referring to. I see that as John just letting people fill in the blanks for him so he won't have to. Sometimes it may have absolutely nothing to do with reality. Like with Teyla when she implied that he didn't have friends and he seemed to be insulted. Yet for some reason she thought that. I wonder why. Did he spend a lot of time in his room reading War and Peace? Was he never seen with anyone but the team, Elizabeth and maybe Carson? Did he not take part in the social activities? Puzzlement.

Oh and if you found some of us on Twitter, you can probably figure out some others. Anuna is there also. We are presently planning our move to a remote island where it seems I have volunteered to milk goats. If you have a survival skill, you may join us. We plan to subsist on goat cheese, wine and my homemade bread. Plus have lovely music, a veggie garden and the men will fish. Needless to say it has been named Sparky Island.

The Twitter convo was starting to scare me.

I think with regards to the Sateda convo, that John was a bit of a workaholic who was pretty much always busy or commanding. And I don't wonder if Teyla compared his leadership style to hers, not really 'getting' that military commanders aren't supposed to make friends with their troops. But I would consider him like Elizabeth, who was many times called out by various people for working too much. I remember Teyla's reaction in Sunday when Elizabeth cancelled their lunch date--both she and Carson were amused, in part because it was a 'date' but also because Elizabeth was getting out. And didn't John ask someone at one point to invite Elizabeth out because she was in her office too much? I think he, like she, lives for his duty on Atlantis and just wasn't interested in making friends with the people he could be friends with. He had enough in the group he names back to Teyla.

ARGH! GW just ate my whole post!

Thanks. Haven't passed it, but it's being quiet so I'm just happy with that.

My brain totally went here, after reading that:

Spoiler:

I've had that a few times. I started getting them in my mid-20s, so I guess I'm just really lucky [/sarcasm]

I added you back. Snark and sarcasm are 2 of my favorite things. I also added KrisRussell and SK. They were the only ones I was sure of. I'm mathgirl24 over there too. I thought about using that for my name here, but feared everyone would think I'm a weirdo (before getting to know me, and knowing that the weirdo label is actually valid ). And now, knowing my initials mean something else, well, the stubborn part of me refuses to change it. (whoa that was some serious comma abuse)

Ooh that song is great too! Another one to get on the iPod. My mom wanted to see him in concert, but the closest he ever came was Boston. That's too far to take her.

Well, yes, that always helps. I know that it was acceptable at the time, but I can't get over the cousins thing in Mansfield Park. I love the Gwyneth Paltrow version of Emma (Jeremy Northam... drool). My favorite Persuasion version is the Amanda Root one. The people in that are more normal looking, but it's so beautifully done. Ok, ok, Ciarán Hinds... drool.

The dumbing down of John was one of my many complaints about the later seasons. One of those season 5 Daniel episodes had this so bad I almost threw something at the screen. I'm going to start my S4/S5 rewatch soon (and posting my reviews on LJ - hopefully I'll have something to say). I'm not looking forward to those moments.

You mean men aren't all in love with their mothers? And I really hope my dreams aren't symbolic or I am a very screwed up woman!

I know, Ciaran Hinds! I wrote a paper once on how the filming of that version of Persuasion was reflective of the imagery Austen used to describe her characters. One of the best sequences is when Anne arrives in Bath and the home of the Eliots is that white marble palace flat, cold and austere and beautiful--and then you immediately see Elizabeth seated on a settee in the middle of it. It was wonderfully done.

I have been an Austen fangirl for so long, I'm completely over the cousins thing. I don't even remember when it happened, because I was so young when I questioned why they'd marry their cousins. At some point I just accepted it, though I know that genetically it caused problems.