Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Bama]

On the Long Goodbye pictures:

Spoiler:

The gun appears to be one of the little Wraith stunners that we first saw in either Siege II or III. A lot more practical than the big ones, though less with the stabbing action.

And on the Hot Zone virus makers:

Spoiler:

There was information early that we'd be seeing them this season, but I've not seen anything since to back it up since. We're supposed to get an episode that's more about Teyla this season too, but unless "Michael" is it, that's not panning out. That said, I've got next to nothing on Inferno and Allies (the last two of the season), so it could be in either of those episode. And who knows, maybe they'll show up in The Long Goodbye.

Mel, do we *know* that TLG is

Spoiler:

an 'elizabeth centered' ep? I know I was fooled by 'conversion' and I wouldn't put it past them to toss out the 'fun' aspect of the ep -Elizabeth kickin john's tail- and then have it be a more 'teyla' centered ep.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Very interesting thoughts on TLG.

Spoiler:

It just ocurred to me that if Liz was under the influence of drugs, memory loss, or perhaps possesed by something else, Shep would not want to fight back with full strength. Obviously, we're going to see Liz's combat ability in the ep, but does anyone else think that Shep won't be willing to fight?

I haven't been able to think of anything else "The Long Goodbye" might be refering to. The memory loss scenario is poignant and would really be, as others have pointed out, a great paralell for "Conversion". We're going to crash GW again after this ep airs, I'm sure lol.


EDIT: Just found Bama asked a similar question! (had already started writing). Anyway I think it is likely John would not fight--only if absolutely necessary. I think he would easily risk his life to prevent her form coming to harm. This ep has a lot of ship potential from that standpoint.

Royal

[Rubicon]

On the Long Goodbye pictures:

Spoiler:

The gun appears to be one of the little Wraith stunners that we first saw in either Siege II or III. A lot more practical than the big ones, though less with the stabbing action.

Eeek! Wraith!

Spoiler:

Could the mystery something happening to Elizabeth in TLG, be a Wraith Queen telepathically taking over her?! The Hive Queen in LB seemed to be able to make Sheppard kneel with her mind.
I've been nervously thinking the Wraith might see Elizabeth as Atlantis' Queen. And you know kill the Queen & the hive goes kaput.

[Melyanna]

My question though is

Spoiler:

'Would John fight her?' I can't see him doing much of anything but the bare minimum to protect himself against an aggressive Elizabeth whether she was out of her mind or not. He'd be too worried that he would hurt her and *about* her. You know Mel, I could see the writers working both the 'Elizabeth is learning self-defense on her own' and the 'Elizabeth has something that's making her crazy' into this plotline and they could do it seamlessly imo and that might stand the greatest chance of giving us the shippiness we sense could happen here. We could see Elizabeth 'learning' and doing well only to have this 'infection' cause her to use her new found skills to 'lash out' at those she normally would never do so at. I don't want her coming across like a sudden 'Wonder Woman' knockoff either only to be 'stripped' of everything at the end of the episode. The 'self-defense' angle just has too much validity and relevance after what occured in Eye/storm and conversion. She's in real danger-constantly -as the head of that city.

Spoiler:

My aversion to alien influence is more aimed at Elizabeth finding super strength due to alien influence. I'm relatively okay with her going crazy. To be perfectly honest, of course, I could see her snapping without a drug or virus, but that's another story (that I already wrote ). But as I've said before drug = strength has been done to death this season. We already beat that horse, time to find a new one.

However, I do like the idea of them blending Elizabeth having learned to defend herself with her suddenly misusing that training through no fault of her own. It could either be out of drug-induced paranoia or aggression. Personally, I like the latter.

But you've mentioned Wonder Woman, and now I want to write to Joss Whedon to beg him to consider Torri Higginson as Wonder Woman in his movie. He'd totally go for it, don't you think?

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Eeek! Wraith!

Spoiler:

Could the mystery something happening to Elizabeth in TLG, be a Wraith Queen telepathically taking over her?! The Hive Queen in LB seemed to be able to make Sheppard kneel with her mind.
I've been nervously thinking the Wraith might see Elizabeth as Atlantis' Queen. And you know kill the Queen & the hive goes kaput.

That is an interesting idea. Maybe "The Long Goodbye" refers to the speculation ahead

Spoiler:

the slow destruction of Liz's mind under such an intrusion? We know this Wraith Queen has it in for Shep. And your right, it seems the Wraith operate with queen bees, maybe they think a decapitation strike, or taking control of the "queen" equals control of Atlantis. Who knows, but that is an interesting scenario.

Royal

[Melyanna]

Mel, do we *know* that TLG is

Spoiler:

an 'elizabeth centered' ep? I know I was fooled by 'conversion' and I wouldn't put it past them to toss out the 'fun' aspect of the ep -Elizabeth kickin john's tail- and then have it be a more 'teyla' centered ep.

Absolutely all the information out on the episode has been about Elizabeth. With Conversion, we were getting bits about Teyla and about the team in general too. I suppose it's possible that we've been misled about the content of the episode, but that just seems incredibly unlikely to me.

[Melyanna]

Very interesting thoughts on TLG.

Spoiler:

It just ocurred to me that if Liz was under the influence of drugs, memory loss, or perhaps possesed by something else, Shep would not want to fight back with full strength. Obviously, we're going to see Liz's combat ability in the ep, but does anyone else think that Shep won't be willing to fight?

I haven't been able to think of anything else "The Long Goodbye" might be refering to. The memory loss scenario is poignant and would really be, as others have pointed out, a great paralell for "Conversion". We're going to crash GW again after this ep airs, I'm sure lol.


EDIT: Just found Bama asked a similar question! (had already started writing). Anyway I think it is likely John would not fight--only if absolutely necessary. I think he would easily risk his life to prevent her form coming to harm. This ep has a lot of ship potential from that standpoint.

Royal

Spoiler:

In a fair fight, that's the only way I see Elizabeth winning – if John lays down arms. Unless she's got the element of surprise on her side, I can't see her being able to physically overpower him. I think she could defend herself long enough to get out of a bad situation, but when push comes to shove, John would be able to snap her in two. I only see him getting the crap kicked out of him if he's trying not to hurt her.

[Melyanna]

Eeek! Wraith!

Spoiler:

Could the mystery something happening to Elizabeth in TLG, be a Wraith Queen telepathically taking over her?! The Hive Queen in LB seemed to be able to make Sheppard kneel with her mind.
I've been nervously thinking the Wraith might see Elizabeth as Atlantis' Queen. And you know kill the Queen & the hive goes kaput.

Spoiler:

Hmm. Good theory, but wouldn't they be a lot more likely to try to take over Teyla? That'd be easier, and a possessed Teyla could waltz in and kill Elizabeth, and then go berserk.

Those three pictures we've got all seem to be from the same place, and I kind of suspect that Elizabeth knocks John out and ties him up, and then Teyla finds him like that when he wakes up. So that stunner might be pointed at Teyla. Just a guess, though.

EDIT: Fixed spoiler tags.

[Hatcheter]

Eeek! Wraith!

Spoiler:

I've been nervously thinking the Wraith might see Elizabeth as Atlantis' Queen. And you know kill the Queen & the hive goes kaput.

Now there's an interesting idea.

To delve into other episode spoilers, in 'Michael' (which Gateworld lists as the ep before TLG)

Spoiler:

there is apparently some memory erasure going on. Perhaps another of Beckett's experiments goes awry.

For 'The Long Goodbye'

Spoiler:

Is it only Elizabeth who will be acting strangely? From the three pics that were released, we see that Sheppard was cuffed, had his pistol and knife taken, and has somehow obtained a Wraith stunner to hold Teyla at gunpoint. It might be possible that Sheppard is the one with "issues", or that more than one person is suffering some sort of ill effects.

And where does that lifepod fit into all this, and how do Shep and Weir end up locked inside before its all over ? (and in what state of dress will they be in? )

[Athenaktt]

Yup. Leave it to me to interrupt discussions with pictures. More from "The Gift."

[Melyanna]

Now there's an interesting idea.

To delve into other episode spoilers, in 'Michael' (which Gateworld lists as the ep before TLG)

Spoiler:

there is apparently some memory erasure going on. Perhaps another of Beckett's experiments goes awry.

Episode order could change, but with Atlantis they've been better about filming in order. As far as I know, the only episodes that have been filmed out of order were Underground (switched with Home, probably to facilitate the mutual guest stars of Underground and The Storm), and Trinity (switched with Condemned).

Spoiler:

Michael is a continuation of the retrovirus plot from Instinct and Conversion. Just as Sheppard was losing memory of who he was, the Wraith they capture and give the virus loses memory of what he was. They treat him as an amnesia patient and create an identity for him. It doesn't work, of course, as he ends up dredging up memories of having been a Wraith.

And now this is making me think about Conversion. I think this is a really, really positive indicator that John could never, ever hurt Elizabeth. He was losing who he was, but something which at that point was probably subconscious kept him from killing her.

For 'The Long Goodbye'

Spoiler:

Is it only Elizabeth who will be acting strangely? From the three pics that were released, we see that Sheppard was cuffed, had his pistol and knife taken, and has somehow obtained a Wraith stunner to hold Teyla at gunpoint. It might be possible that Sheppard is the one with "issues", or that more than one person is suffering some sort of ill effects.

And where does that lifepod fit into all this, and how do Shep and Weir end up locked inside before its all over ? (and in what state of dress will they be in? )

I know less about this episode than I did about Siege III and Intruder. At this point we're all guessing a lot.

Spoiler:

I suppose it's possible that John's infected with something too. The thing that really isn't making sense for me right now is how the whole life pod thing fits in. I suppose it's possible that Damian Kindler was screwing with us.

But as for the life pod... I think their state of dress is an important question which will reveal crucial information about the characters. We should discuss this further, and perhaps write fics on the subject.

[Hatcheter]

Spoiler:

And now this is making me think about Conversion. I think this is a really, really positive indicator that John could never, ever hurt Elizabeth. He was losing who he was, but something which at that point was probably subconscious kept him from killing her.

Spoiler:

After watching that scene a few dozen times as I chopped it up for the vid I was working on (finished that, btw), I noticed that he doesn't seem to be holding her that tightly. Elizabeth is panting, but she is able to talk and move her head freely. Sheppard seems to tighten his grip just breiefly before he lets go if her. With the way he took out the guards, he must have still been lucid enough to know when he did and didn't knock a person out, so he knew she would be okay.

And after that, when he's going on his mission to the cave, she's walking him to the gateroom. She knows she has nothing to fear from him.

[spoiler]I know less about this episode than I did about Siege III and Intruder. At this point we're all guessing a lot.

Spoiler:

I suppose it's possible that John's infected with something too. The thing that really isn't making sense for me right now is how the whole life pod thing fits in. I suppose it's possible that Damian Kindler was screwing with us.

You mean TPTB would mislead the fans? Say it ain't so!

Spoiler:

But as for the life pod... I think their state of dress is an important question which will reveal crucial information about the characters. We should discuss this further, and perhaps write fics on the subject.

Emphasis on "reveal".

[SapphireJewelledQueen]

Yup. Leave it to me to interrupt discussions with pictures. More from "The Gift."

Please! Interrupt anytime!

[Hatcheter]

Please! Interrupt anytime!

I hope that's an open invitation. Conversion caps:

They could be holding hands:



And since it's often been discussed, here's one of Sheppard licking his lips:


But what's this? Weir is doing it to?

[hollyshannensangel]

Do you know what's really, really bad? Although I don't ship for Weir/Sheppard....cos, we all know the best ship is slash ship

Anyhow, if a ship was to happen I'd have to say that it would more than likely be Sheppard/Weir...and I never thought I'd ever say that and I totally blame the drugs...hospital drugs that is...cos after being drugged up *snickers* I can't picture Sheppard/Teyla (that been said I can't picture Teyla/Dex-too much of a younger sister/ older brother relationship) and yet I could picture Weir/Sheppard You see?! This is what happens, when you're hospitalized and drugged up, all crazy thoughts and things start happenin' and that ain't right.

No, but, again, seriously, if TPTB head for ship (which I hope they don't, cos IMO it'll screw the show...I mean SG-1, need I say more? *Ponders* I think I've said that before....here on this thread *shrugs* can't recall. But if they do, I just pray that they seek advice off David E Kelley, cos he and his little crew can write romance: The Practice and LA Law, need I say more? Speaking of which, The Practice is on in a bit, so I best make this quick (and ot, but am I the only one who thinks Lara Flynn Boyle is very, very fine?)

I do have a habit of repeating myself, so if I have, then dudes I'm sorry, but, such is life.

Although I do have a question for you and don't shot me (not possible I know, but you know what I mean, right?)

Spoiler:

I've read that some Weir/Sheppard and McKay/Sheppard shippers (can't recall where, I'll have to hunt for it) are glad with Dex being introduced as Teyla'll more than likely be paired up with him...(which would be nasty, cuz come on they do have a brother/sister relationship, unless that's just me) which'll mean that their ship is safe...

Not sure if that was really a spoiler, but, best to be safe then sorry. Personally, I don't think that this is true as

Spoiler:

the intro of Dex mightn't mean nothing in ship sense

and I don't get that vibe from either the McKay/Sheppard or Weir/Sheppard shippers...unless it doesn't apply to this forum and the above was targeted at other SGA forums. But, I just wanted your opinions.


Mandeep