Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Eri13]

Yup, let's have all the neat pairs. We can pair Woolsey with Doctor Biro or someone even more random.

However when it comes to John and Nancy, there's another thing. If someone got a divorce that means the marriage wasn't working, the relationship lacked something - it was disfunctional. Debating whose fault is it, John or Nancy is beside the point (however I believe in cases like that both parties bear the guilt).

So, why pairing him back with her? To go and fix something from the past? That makes no sense, for a mature adult IMO. They both moved on and changed and aren't the same people who were married ten or how many years ago. I do believe most people still love their ex spouses (if they weren't abusive or something in that vein, and some people still love the spouses who beat the cr*p outta them), but going back in past and bringing old love to life simply isn't possible. If it is, then this person never really gotten over the ex, didn't deal with issues which led to ending of the marriage, so revisiting this relationship can't be healthy. I don't think that seeing John in a disfunctional relationship would be much fun.

However, Elizabeth had done one thing Nancy didn't - she knew how "guide" John to give his best. It's her who helped him shine. I think the circumstances added up to that, but the bottom line is, she believed in him, even when he was, er, misbehaving. I wouldn't say that Elizabeth deserves him more (hey, wait. I take that back. I think Elizabeth does deserve him more, ), the important thing is, he has/had (damn canon! She's not gone!) a chance for a healthy relationship with her, something with a future.

While I'd never want to bring back the ex just to wrap things up, I do think you can argue that John was changed because of Elizabeth, and it was that change they're exploring now. When John appeared in Rising, he was a guy who flipped a coin to determine whether he wanted to go, was banished to Antarctica for disobeying orders (and liked it), had an extreme sense of 'leave no man behind' syndrome and definitely did not value his life over other people's--to the extreme of being willing to sacrifice himself for others.

In Outcast, Nancy pointed out that he was always leaving her behind to go and do secret stuff he couldn't share. And presumably, what irritated her most was that he kept it all bottled up and pushed her away. They obviously parted on good terms--he even asked about her new significant other.

I do think you can explore how he's been changed since then, and how people like Elizabeth have made part of that 'loner' into a better man--a man who keeps his family close. From that perspective, I personally believe you could have delved into that relationship again--if you had to the time to explain why Nancy left her significant other and if you spent multiple episodes exploring it slowly. That's the only way it would be believable to me.

I don't think you can do it in a movie, and as a Sparky I'd be hurt if they did because I knew it'd be a 'patch job'. Definitely be easier to reincorporate Elizabeth, and honestly (okay, slightly biased) I think John can't let go of her easily enough to return to Nancy.

[Scary Kitty]

Yup, let's have all the neat pairs. We can pair Woolsey with Doctor Biro or someone even more random.

*snorts*

However when it comes to John and Nancy, there's another thing. If someone got a divorce that means the marriage wasn't working, the relationship lacked something - it was disfunctional. Debating whose fault is it, John or Nancy is beside the point (however I believe in cases like that both parties bear the guilt).

So, why pairing him back with her? To go and fix something from the past? That makes no sense, for a mature adult IMO. They both moved on and changed and aren't the same people who were married ten or how many years ago. I do believe most people still love their ex spouses (if they weren't abusive or something in that vein, and some people still love the spouses who beat the cr*p outta them), but going back in past and bringing old love to life simply isn't possible. If it is, then this person never really gotten over the ex, didn't deal with issues which led to ending of the marriage, so revisiting this relationship can't be healthy. I don't think that seeing John in a disfunctional relationship would be much fun.

Well said. Nancy is John's past. He's over her, he's moved on. Obviously, he still cares about her as a friend (hence his asking her about Greg, or whatever his name was), but only as a friend. And maybe not even a close friend, given that it's apparently been a while since they've seen each other.

However, Elizabeth had done one thing Nancy didn't - she knew how "guide" John to give his best. It's her who helped him shine. I think the circumstances added up to that, but the bottom line is, she believed in him, even when he was, er, misbehaving. I wouldn't say that Elizabeth deserves him more (hey, wait. I take that back. I think Elizabeth does deserve him more, ), the important thing is, he has/had (damn canon! She's not gone!) a chance for a healthy relationship with her, something with a future.

And that's something we've talked about with regards to other potential relationships John might have with other characters, too. Those potential significant others are always trying to change John, make him into someone they think he should be. But Elizabeth never did that. As you said, she 'guided' him; she understood what kind of person he is, and worked with that instead of against it, letting him make up his own mind about what path he wanted to take.

I do think you can explore how he's been changed since then, and how people like Elizabeth have made part of that 'loner' into a better man--a man who keeps his family close. From that perspective, I personally believe you could have delved into that relationship again--if you had to the time to explain why Nancy left her significant other and if you spent multiple episodes exploring it slowly. That's the only way it would be believable to me.

I don't think you can do it in a movie, and as a Sparky I'd be hurt if they did because I knew it'd be a 'patch job'. Definitely be easier to reincorporate Elizabeth, and honestly (okay, slightly biased) I think John can't let go of her easily enough to return to Nancy.

I agree; there's just no way any significant John/Nancy story could be given proper coverage in a 90-minute movie. Ironically enough, the same can be said for a proper resolution to the Weir-Replicator storyline. They both need more time than a mere movie can provide. And Elizabeth's story has more choice meat to build a good movie on, anyway.

[Eri13]

*snorts*



Well said. Nancy is John's past. He's over her, he's moved on. Obviously, he still cares about her as a friend (hence his asking her about Greg, or whatever his name was), but only as a friend. And maybe not even a close friend, given that it's apparently been a while since they've seen each other.



And that's something we've talked about with regards to other potential relationships John might have with other characters, too. Those potential significant others are always trying to change John, make him into someone they think he should be. But Elizabeth never did that. As you said, she 'guided' him; she understood what kind of person he is, and worked with that instead of against it, letting him make up his own mind about what path he wanted to take.

I agree; there's just no way any significant John/Nancy story could be given proper coverage in a 90-minute movie. Ironically enough, the same can be said for a proper resolution to the Weir-Replicator storyline. They both need more time than a mere movie can provide. And Elizabeth's story has more choice meat to build a good movie on, anyway.

Mmm...there I disagree. I think you could completely tell how you get Elizabeth back in 90 minutes or less. You just have to make it it's own movie.

Spoiler:

My thoughts were that it somehow involves whatever spare human-form replicators are left (one escaped the Wraith in Reunion, then there's the rebels spacegated after GITM), the renegade Asgard (whose mortal enemies were the block-form replicators) and the Wraith in a struggle for power.

I don't know much about the renegade Asgard, but if they were looking to compete with the Wraith for control, the Wraith might look to using the replicators as weaponry. So if someone found out about a 'weapon' that the Asurans had hidden away that could control replicators without being a danger to the user, everyone would be trying to get their hands on it.

Only it's not a weapon, it's Elizabeth, whose human form is the only thing that can honestly exercise control over replicators. The Asgard want to kill her, the Wraith want to use her, and the Lanteans just want to get her back to protect her and prevent her from being used.

Even cooler would be if somehow the GITM Weir was involved, so you had two competing Elizabeth's, only the GITM version could be reprogrammed like Niam, so you'd have evil!Elizabeth in some form, which might be fun.

How Elizabeth was used and what it entailed requires more thought, but I honestly believe you could have some slam-bang entertaining stuff. I'd need to know about the renegade Asgard in full, however, to flesh out what their role would be. But to me, Asgard means replicators have to return somehow.

In the end, though, the resolution is simple. We've already had a nanite program used to 'heal', thanks to Miller's Crossing. Risky, but completely plausible, that Elizabeth's nanites are carefully reprogrammed to rebuild her system organically so that she no longer needs to rely on the machines. At the end of the story, she's 100% human again. That would take approximately 5 minutes to explain.

[pkprd869]

Anuna I see a new avatar and sig. Probie That vid of Miss Torri made my heart go ting-a-ling about 2,309,578,234,905,742,397 times. She looked very lovely and I think charming, but No hablo French. Though I don't know if white is appropriate for a cocktail event, but I know little of the rules lady's must abide. But if Miss Torri was on my arm, she could wear a burlap sack for all I care and still look gorgeous.

I do think Shep has been affected by every loss. I think TPTW said they wanted S4 to be abit darker, and it was. Lizzie had a little faith in Shep, and he proved it was well founded. Lizzie gave him a "that a boy" when he did well, and put him in his place when he messed up and that was the end of it. Shep strikes me as type of guy if you just complain at and "nag" he's just going to say screw this and do what he wants.

I'll try to write something, but one of my buddies from work wants me to meet some girl he knows. I guess he's been playing me up, and trying to chat her up. I hope I can write something before I go on nights.

[Scary Kitty]

Mmm...there I disagree. I think you could completely tell how you get Elizabeth back in 90 minutes or less. You just have to make it it's own movie.

Spoiler:

My thoughts were that it somehow involves whatever spare human-form replicators are left (one escaped the Wraith in Reunion, then there's the rebels spacegated after GITM), the renegade Asgard (whose mortal enemies were the block-form replicators) and the Wraith in a struggle for power.

I don't know much about the renegade Asgard, but if they were looking to compete with the Wraith for control, the Wraith might look to using the replicators as weaponry. So if someone found out about a 'weapon' that the Asurans had hidden away that could control replicators without being a danger to the user, everyone would be trying to get their hands on it.

Only it's not a weapon, it's Elizabeth, whose human form is the only thing that can honestly exercise control over replicators. The Asgard want to kill her, the Wraith want to use her, and the Lanteans just want to get her back to protect her and prevent her from being used.

Even cooler would be if somehow the GITM Weir was involved, so you had two competing Elizabeth's, only the GITM version could be reprogrammed like Niam, so you'd have evil!Elizabeth in some form, which might be fun.

How Elizabeth was used and what it entailed requires more thought, but I honestly believe you could have some slam-bang entertaining stuff. I'd need to know about the renegade Asgard in full, however, to flesh out what their role would be. But to me, Asgard means replicators have to return somehow.

In the end, though, the resolution is simple. We've already had a nanite program used to 'heal', thanks to Miller's Crossing. Risky, but completely plausible, that Elizabeth's nanites are carefully reprogrammed to rebuild her system organically so that she no longer needs to rely on the machines. At the end of the story, she's 100% human again. That would take approximately 5 minutes to explain.

Well, I suppose it's possible, but what concerns me is whether or not a 90-minute movie is enough time to cover all those plotpoints without rushing through it and glossing over important details, which was a problem that hampered both Ark of Truth and Continuum, as well as certain episodes that could've benefited from a longer run time, like EatG.

Your idea is very, very cool, though.

Spoiler:

I agree that the Asgard have got to be involved, cause the Asgard vs. Replicator thing is just way too much fun to not want to play with it. Or turn it on its head; since the Pegasus Asgard are also out to destroy the Wraith (but are kinda bad guys since they don't care about collateral damage), maybe they might want to pick up where the Ancients left off and use the Replicators to kill Wraith. Hence, the Wraith would want to kill Lizzie to keep the bad Asgard from using her... though maybe Todd could have his own angle, hahaha.

As for Elizabeth's nanites, the original intention of Rodney and Keller's plan was to use the nanites to heal Elizabeth just as you described; Rodney just ran out of time to finish the code when Elizabeth's condition started going downhill. When we learned in Miller's Crossing that Rodney was still working with the nanite code, I got the feeling that he was doing it in the hopes that when (not if, darnit!) they found Elizabeth, they could finally heal her the 'right' way and make her human again. *pets Rodney*

Gah! We always come up with better stuff than the writers. We should be in charge of the show!

[Eri13]

Well, I suppose it's possible, but what concerns me is whether or not a 90-minute movie is enough time to cover all those plotpoints without rushing through it and glossing over important details, which was a problem that hampered both Ark of Truth and Continuum, as well as certain episodes that could've benefited from a longer run time, like EatG.

Your idea is very, very cool, though.

Spoiler:

I agree that the Asgard have got to be involved, cause the Asgard vs. Replicator thing is just way too much fun to not want to play with it. Or turn it on its head; since the Pegasus Asgard are also out to destroy the Wraith (but are kinda bad guys since they don't care about collateral damage), maybe they might want to pick up where the Ancients left off and use the Replicators to kill Wraith. Hence, the Wraith would want to kill Lizzie to keep the bad Asgard from using her... though maybe Todd could have his own angle, hahaha.

As for Elizabeth's nanites, the original intention of Rodney and Keller's plan was to use the nanites to heal Elizabeth just as you described; Rodney just ran out of time to finish the code when Elizabeth's condition started going downhill. When we learned in Miller's Crossing that Rodney was still working with the nanite code, I got the feeling that he was doing it in the hopes that when (not if, darnit!) they found Elizabeth, they could finally heal her the 'right' way and make her human again. *pets Rodney*

Gah! We always come up with better stuff than the writers. We should be in charge of the show!

Yes, I'm hindered by what little I know of S5 (and to be honest, I don't know much about the SG-1 movies, I stopped watching SG-1 a while ago). What I do know is that with the replicators killed off in BAMSR (and the block replicators were eliminated in SG-1, right?), and with only a handful left running around, you're not necessarily confronted with the huge onus of solving the 'Wraith problem', for example. The replicators could never be brought up again, or they could play a major role. I think you'd have to find a way to make Elizabeth 'interesting' in the movie--give them a purpose for finding her and salvaging her--but you wouldn't have to explain too much about what she'd been doing. In my shadowy outline for a Weir script that will probably never get written...

Spoiler:

I have Ronon leading a team to an unknown planet to find this 'weapon' and they stumble upon a stasis pod in a hidden location--that turns out to be Elizabeth. Won't go into details about why Shep and Rodney aren't there--time passing and whatnot--but Ronon is all about not reviving her and destroying the facility because he thinks its a clone, but he's overridden and when she's revived, she wakes up thinking it's only been a few hours since the day she was taken in Lifeline. They figure out that Oberoth placed her in stasis and put her away for safekeeping and she never would have been found had it not been revealed that she was regarded as a 'weapon'.

When they emerge out of the facility, trying to figure out what to do with her, they're attacked and captured by either the Asgard or the Wraith, chaos ensues, blah dee blah use your imagination...

Like I said, I'd have to flesh out the whys, but I'm thinking the Wraith, perhaps, needing her to use her to control the other Replicators to attack the Asgard, and they threaten to kill Ronon, or Atlantis, if she doesn't comply. But if the replicators are let loose of course there's a problem of them becomes Asuras all over again...

John and the others are in a race to save them...coupled with that is all the doubt about whether she's the 'real' real Elizabeth, the replicators being back, what kind of a danger she might pose, etc, etc. And then she might sacrifice herself to destroy the other replicators for good and save the team, or they have to consider destroying her to prevent the Wraith's plan, but does John let that happen a 3rd time? Angsty central...

[Southern Red]

*snorts*




And that's something we've talked about with regards to other potential relationships John might have with other characters, too. Those potential significant others are always trying to change John, make him into someone they think he should be. But Elizabeth never did that. As you said, she 'guided' him; she understood what kind of person he is, and worked with that instead of against it, letting him make up his own mind about what path he wanted to take.

And after watching Sateda today I'd have to add that she never put words in his mouth or misunderstood what he was trying to say or thought for a minute that he lacked social skills or had no friends.

Mmm...there I disagree. I think you could completely tell how you get Elizabeth back in 90 minutes or less. You just have to make it it's own movie.

Spoiler:

My thoughts were that it somehow involves whatever spare human-form replicators are left (one escaped the Wraith in Reunion, then there's the rebels spacegated after GITM), the renegade Asgard (whose mortal enemies were the block-form replicators) and the Wraith in a struggle for power.

I don't know much about the renegade Asgard, but if they were looking to compete with the Wraith for control, the Wraith might look to using the replicators as weaponry. So if someone found out about a 'weapon' that the Asurans had hidden away that could control replicators without being a danger to the user, everyone would be trying to get their hands on it.

Only it's not a weapon, it's Elizabeth, whose human form is the only thing that can honestly exercise control over replicators. The Asgard want to kill her, the Wraith want to use her, and the Lanteans just want to get her back to protect her and prevent her from being used.

Even cooler would be if somehow the GITM Weir was involved, so you had two competing Elizabeth's, only the GITM version could be reprogrammed like Niam, so you'd have evil!Elizabeth in some form, which might be fun.

How Elizabeth was used and what it entailed requires more thought, but I honestly believe you could have some slam-bang entertaining stuff. I'd need to know about the renegade Asgard in full, however, to flesh out what their role would be. But to me, Asgard means replicators have to return somehow.

In the end, though, the resolution is simple. We've already had a nanite program used to 'heal', thanks to Miller's Crossing. Risky, but completely plausible, that Elizabeth's nanites are carefully reprogrammed to rebuild her system organically so that she no longer needs to rely on the machines. At the end of the story, she's 100% human again. That would take approximately 5 minutes to explain.

I like your ideas. It would be great to see John having to figure out which Elizabeth was the real one. And of course he would know right away.

And I agree they could explain it all with a few minutes of technobabble.

Even though I think John and Nancy have both changed enough that whatever brought them together in the first place might bring them back together, I understand the negative reaction to that ship. But considering these writers, it would be the easy way out. As usual they wouldn't explain anything.

[Scary Kitty]

Yes, I'm hindered by what little I know of S5 (and to be honest, I don't know much about the SG-1 movies, I stopped watching SG-1 a while ago). What I do know is that with the replicators killed off in BAMSR (and the block replicators were eliminated in SG-1, right?), and with only a handful left running around, you're not necessarily confronted with the huge onus of solving the 'Wraith problem', for example. The replicators could never be brought up again, or they could play a major role. I think you'd have to find a way to make Elizabeth 'interesting' in the movie--give them a purpose for finding her and salvaging her--but you wouldn't have to explain too much about what she'd been doing.

Especially if she's been 'on ice' the whole time. Heehee!

Hmm, I've got to wonder... if she's in stasis, but she's also got active nanites keeping her alive, would it be possible for the nanites be able to access the stasis pod and by extension, other systems connected to the place where her pod is. Maybe take control of the computers from inside the pod? Ooooh...

In my shadowy outline for a Weir script that will probably never get written...

Spoiler:

I have Ronon leading a team to an unknown planet to find this 'weapon' and they stumble upon a stasis pod in a hidden location--that turns out to be Elizabeth. Won't go into details about why Shep and Rodney aren't there--time passing and whatnot--but Ronon is all about not reviving her and destroying the facility because he thinks its a clone, but he's overridden and when she's revived, she wakes up thinking it's only been a few hours since the day she was taken in Lifeline. They figure out that Oberoth placed her in stasis and put her away for safekeeping and she never would have been found had it not been revealed that she was regarded as a 'weapon'.

When they emerge out of the facility, trying to figure out what to do with her, they're attacked and captured by either the Asgard or the Wraith, chaos ensues, blah dee blah use your imagination...

Like I said, I'd have to flesh out the whys, but I'm thinking the Wraith, perhaps, needing her to use her to control the other Replicators to attack the Asgard, and they threaten to kill Ronon, or Atlantis, if she doesn't comply. But if the replicators are let loose of course there's a problem of them becomes Asuras all over again...

John and the others are in a race to save them...coupled with that is all the doubt about whether she's the 'real' real Elizabeth, the replicators being back, what kind of a danger she might pose, etc, etc. And then she might sacrifice herself to destroy the other replicators for good and save the team, or they have to consider destroying her to prevent the Wraith's plan, but does John let that happen a 3rd time? Angsty central...

Aaaaahhhh! *flails* You have so got to turn that into a fic someday!

And after watching Sateda today I'd have to add that she never put words in his mouth or misunderstood what he was trying to say or thought for a minute that he lacked social skills or had no friends.

*snickers* Unlike some other people we could mention...

I like your ideas. It would be great to see John having to figure out which Elizabeth was the real one. And of course he would know right away.

Or would he? If indeed the duplicates were created to be as close to the original as possible... Oh, the evil angst!

Even though I think John and Nancy have both changed enough that whatever brought them together in the first place might bring them back together, I understand the negative reaction to that ship. But considering these writers, it would be the easy way out. As usual they wouldn't explain anything.

And that's really at the core of my argument against John/Nancy. It's not that I don't think the characters have changed and maybe 'grown up' a little; they have, so I think in the right hands, such a story might be possible. The problem is, after the way that these writers have botched other ships, they've clearly demonstrated that they can't handle it.

[Erin87]

These movie ideas are awesome!!! Ah, I don't know what I'd do to see something like that actually happen.

Spoiler:

But yeah, I've had the renegade Asgard and Replicators idea too. Mine was something like: the Asgard who are left after The Lost Tribe are now back to square one in regards to how to deal with the Wraith, since their plans for the Aterro device were thwarted. So they figure out a plan to use the Replicators to destroy the Wraith, and what do you know, there just happens to be a whole batch of them deep frozen in space just waiting to be used for a good plot. So the Asgard find the Replicators, but maybe only one of them is still active (Franibeth of course), so they pick her up and somehow fix it so she gets a body that looks like her old one or something like that. This idea was originally based on the assumption that the GITM Weir was the real one (even though I definitely like the 'real one tucked away somewhere' plan a lot better).

And this would also tie in to Atlantis coming back to the Pegasus Galaxy from Earth - maybe they steal it when they hear of all the trouble going on back home. (or maybe they don't have any idea what's going on, and when they get back they find everything in chaos because the Asgard are wreaking havoc) and dun dun dun! they find Lizzie with the Asgard and then the day/galaxy saving progresses from there.

And hey! This could even get worked in with the title they've released for the supposed SGA movie - Extinction. If they want to wrap everything up in one shot, they could do this: have several months pass with Atlantis on Earth and them dealing with the bureaucratic red tape, and then when they do get back, like I said above, they find that the Asgard have been busy with the Replicators and the Wraith are already nearing defeat (extinction!) Of course they could be talking about the Asgard that are facing extinction (that's more likely)
But anyway, whatever the little details, the important thing is that Lizzie gets rescued!

[Anuna]

While I'd never want to bring back the ex just to wrap things up, I do think you can argue that John was changed because of Elizabeth, and it was that change they're exploring now. When John appeared in Rising, he was a guy who flipped a coin to determine whether he wanted to go, was banished to Antarctica for disobeying orders (and liked it), had an extreme sense of 'leave no man behind' syndrome and definitely did not value his life over other people's--to the extreme of being willing to sacrifice himself for others.

In Outcast, Nancy pointed out that he was always leaving her behind to go and do secret stuff he couldn't share. And presumably, what irritated her most was that he kept it all bottled up and pushed her away. They obviously parted on good terms--he even asked about her new significant other.

I do think you can explore how he's been changed since then, and how people like Elizabeth have made part of that 'loner' into a better man--a man who keeps his family close. From that perspective, I personally believe you could have delved into that relationship again--if you had to the time to explain why Nancy left her significant other and if you spent multiple episodes exploring it slowly. That's the only way it would be believable to me.

I don't think you can do it in a movie, and as a Sparky I'd be hurt if they did because I knew it'd be a 'patch job'. Definitely be easier to reincorporate Elizabeth, and honestly (okay, slightly biased) I think John can't let go of her easily enough to return to Nancy.

That's too many ifs for this bunch of writers - they'd probably ignore all of that stuff and fall straight back into a horrible horrible cliche. Think the cave scene from the Rising, only much worse.

Then, you have to keep in mind that John still didn't get over his grief for Elizabeth, and after arriving to Earth the way they all did, he'd probably "grieve" for Pegasus galaxy. John is a man loyal to his purpose. The job in PG is left undone, and he'd want to go back. Who says he wouldn't shut Nancy off again?

Pfff, there goes a fic idea

And after watching Sateda today I'd have to add that she never put words in his mouth or misunderstood what he was trying to say or thought for a minute that he lacked social skills or had no friends.

<snippy snip>

Even though I think John and Nancy have both changed enough that whatever brought them together in the first place might bring them back together, I understand the negative reaction to that ship. But considering these writers, it would be the easy way out. As usual they wouldn't explain anything.

That particular thing irks me about Sateda conversation. He has social skills and friends, for crying out loud.

Yes, but it's also possible they changed so much and whatever brought them together simply isn't there any more - that's how Bones handled going back to old relationship possibility for Booth and his ex, in one single episode, and it was perfect. I'd watch something like that, that would give us some character insight. Not that our precious PTB can even think of something like that. They'd bring back Nancy just because she's hawt, and wouldn't think about what makes sense and what doesn't.

[nogigglingmajor]

Yes, I'm hindered by what little I know of S5 (and to be honest, I don't know much about the SG-1 movies, I stopped watching SG-1 a while ago). What I do know is that with the replicators killed off in BAMSR (and the block replicators were eliminated in SG-1, right?), and with only a handful left running around, you're not necessarily confronted with the huge onus of solving the 'Wraith problem', for example. The replicators could never be brought up again, or they could play a major role. I think you'd have to find a way to make Elizabeth 'interesting' in the movie--give them a purpose for finding her and salvaging her--but you wouldn't have to explain too much about what she'd been doing. In my shadowy outline for a Weir script that will probably never get written...

Spoiler:

I have Ronon leading a team to an unknown planet to find this 'weapon' and they stumble upon a stasis pod in a hidden location--that turns out to be Elizabeth. Won't go into details about why Shep and Rodney aren't there--time passing and whatnot--but Ronon is all about not reviving her and destroying the facility because he thinks its a clone, but he's overridden and when she's revived, she wakes up thinking it's only been a few hours since the day she was taken in Lifeline. They figure out that Oberoth placed her in stasis and put her away for safekeeping and she never would have been found had it not been revealed that she was regarded as a 'weapon'.

When they emerge out of the facility, trying to figure out what to do with her, they're attacked and captured by either the Asgard or the Wraith, chaos ensues, blah dee blah use your imagination...

Like I said, I'd have to flesh out the whys, but I'm thinking the Wraith, perhaps, needing her to use her to control the other Replicators to attack the Asgard, and they threaten to kill Ronon, or Atlantis, if she doesn't comply. But if the replicators are let loose of course there's a problem of them becomes Asuras all over again...

John and the others are in a race to save them...coupled with that is all the doubt about whether she's the 'real' real Elizabeth, the replicators being back, what kind of a danger she might pose, etc, etc. And then she might sacrifice herself to destroy the other replicators for good and save the team, or they have to consider destroying her to prevent the Wraith's plan, but does John let that happen a 3rd time? Angsty central...

That is AWESOME! I wanna see the fic.

On a sadder note however

Spoiler:

We are 99% sure that there will barely even be a mention of dear Lizzie in the movie...sigh, not sure I want to see it. Though with the title 'Extinction' it sounds very interesting.

[Scary Kitty]

These movie ideas are awesome!!! Ah, I don't know what I'd do to see something like that actually happen.

Spoiler:

But yeah, I've had the renegade Asgard and Replicators idea too. Mine was something like: the Asgard who are left after The Lost Tribe are now back to square one in regards to how to deal with the Wraith, since their plans for the Aterro device were thwarted. So they figure out a plan to use the Replicators to destroy the Wraith, and what do you know, there just happens to be a whole batch of them deep frozen in space just waiting to be used for a good plot. So the Asgard find the Replicators, but maybe only one of them is still active (Franibeth of course), so they pick her up and somehow fix it so she gets a body that looks like her old one or something like that. This idea was originally based on the assumption that the GITM Weir was the real one (even though I definitely like the 'real one tucked away somewhere' plan a lot better).

And this would also tie in to Atlantis coming back to the Pegasus Galaxy from Earth - maybe they steal it when they hear of all the trouble going on back home. (or maybe they don't have any idea what's going on, and when they get back they find everything in chaos because the Asgard are wreaking havoc) and dun dun dun! they find Lizzie with the Asgard and then the day/galaxy saving progresses from there.

And hey! This could even get worked in with the title they've released for the supposed SGA movie - Extinction. If they want to wrap everything up in one shot, they could do this: have several months pass with Atlantis on Earth and them dealing with the bureaucratic red tape, and then when they do get back, like I said above, they find that the Asgard have been busy with the Replicators and the Wraith are already nearing defeat (extinction!) Of course they could be talking about the Asgard that are facing extinction (that's more likely)
But anyway, whatever the little details, the important thing is that Lizzie gets rescued!

I had also considered something similar to this.

Spoiler:

I mean, hey, those renegade Asgard have gotta be pissed off about how Atlantis screwed up their plans and wanting revenge. That would be a delicious way to get it.

Great minds think alike!

That's too many ifs for this bunch of writers - they'd probably ignore all of that stuff and fall straight back into a horrible horrible cliche. Think the cave scene from the Rising, only much worse.

Then, you have to keep in mind that John still didn't get over his grief for Elizabeth, and after arriving to Earth the way they all did, he'd probably "grieve" for Pegasus galaxy. John is a man loyal to his purpose. The job in PG is left undone, and he'd want to go back. Who says he wouldn't shut Nancy off again?

Pfff, there goes a fic idea

Damn, we have got to stop doing that! LOL!

That particular thing irks me about Sateda conversation. He has social skills and friends, for crying out loud.

Yes, but it's also possible they changed so much and whatever brought them together simply isn't there any more - that's how Bones handled going back to old relationship possibility for Booth and his ex, in one single episode, and it was perfect. I'd watch something like that, that would give us some character insight. Not that our precious PTB can even think of something like that. They'd bring back Nancy just because she's hawt, and wouldn't think about what makes sense and what doesn't.

Now that Bones-like scenario something I'd be willing to watch. It lets them be mature adults who have learned from experience and aren't going to make the same mistakes just for the sake of trying to recapture some feeling from the past that is better left in the past.

[Scary Kitty]

That is AWESOME! I wanna see the fic.

On a sadder note however

Spoiler:

We are 99% sure that there will barely even be a mention of dear Lizzie in the movie...sigh, not sure I want to see it. Though with the title 'Extinction' it sounds very interesting.

I'd say it's more like 99.9999999999999%. Argh.

[pkprd869]

Some cool movie ideas. I agree that some of them would need a bit of explanation, but hey, *BEEP* it, TPTW did Ninety minutes would be hard to cover the "Lizzie is... whatever" arc. Another serial style season would be best, introducing the new (or different/original/copy) and building up to a confrontation would be cool. But I think it would be hard for folks to follow. It might go the ways of Enterprise, Veronica Mars (NOT A GIRLY SHOW! But that's for a different place all together) and lose viewers because too many people would get lost and stop watching.

SR You mention the convo in "Sateda" with Shep and Teyla. I thought it was good for some giggles, and a snicker even. But if a GF did that to me, I'd probably about face and leave. Plus Shep has social skills. And I think is a pretty cool cat. He's laid back, likes to joke, but gets the job done. Alot of us at the mill are like that, so maybe I'm biased.

About Shep and Lizzie changing, I have to disagree. I don't think people really change. Some aspects of their personality, good or bad, may become more dominant. But still, those traits have always been apart of that person. I know I'm too young to be cynical but what can you do.

Lastly, I did promise to write something, but frankly, it *BEEP*ing *BEEPS*. I might hang up the pen.

[Probie]

Pkprd: I hope your heart is better now. I didn't want to give you a heart attack because of the vid. I hope that we will have on of your story soon.

For everybody: I have only one word: WRITE!
You have great ideas for movies or for a season 6 I know that you don't have time for write but your ideas are so excellent. I'm sick and I finished "Exogenesis" (excellent book by the way). I need some stories to keep me alive.