Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Bama]

Am I off my rocker for thinking

Spoiler:

that Elizabeth just being in John's bedroom was sexier than that whole mouthsmush wraith thing could ever hope to have been?

My fave 'other' moment than siege 3 was probably the 'shooting' scene in 'The Eye'. There was so much trust/emotion going on under the surface there. Loved the B-day present scene too.

-B

[SnoggingPicard]

Delurking here...

John regularly spars with Teyla and very likely injures her. I count that as real violence against women, not some annoying kiss. Now the choke hold - that's another matter altogether! I hope we don't get anymore of this between John and Liz. Once is enough. And I feel the same way about Liz beating up on John. I'm not very comfortable with it, to be honest.

Favorite moment: The Hug is # 1. Very cool moment between the two. John willing to give himself up for Atlantis and Liz's angst is #2. John shooting Kolya and Liz's reaction to that is #3.

Actually, I think that Teyla does a lot more damage to John than the other way around. She kicks his butt on a regular basis, so...violence against men? And the hug is my favorite scene between these two. So flipping cute!

[FoolishPleasure]

Actually, I think that Teyla does a lot more damage to John than the other way around. She kicks his butt on a regular basis, so...violence against men? And the hug is my favorite scene between these two. So flipping cute!

For awhile there was a small group of fans who were into the Dom/submissive thing with Teyla and Shep, but luckily that seems to have died out.

I actually think Liz would look great with a whip . . . um. . . nevermind. *LOL*

[snoopoony]

Have you guys seen what James Bamford said on his blog. Nothing new I know but

Spoiler:

Weir is seen in a very different light on this one..............you will love it.

I'm really confused. I thought before Conversion that Elizabeth may have some hidden skills in fighting but if she had some, she would have defend herself against Sheppard. I mean, even if she was certain he was not going to hurt her, it would have been natural that she tries to defend herself. But she did not. Though, when I read that line, I get the impression that we will see another side of Weir but not because she might be under the control of something. Though I did not see how she could have some fighting skills without having shown them before ?

Any thoughts ?

Snoopoony

[Major_Moomin]

Am I off my rocker for thinking

Spoiler:

that Elizabeth just being in John's bedroom was sexier than that whole mouthsmush wraith thing could ever hope to have been?

My fave 'other' moment than siege 3 was probably the 'shooting' scene in 'The Eye'. There was so much trust/emotion going on under the surface there. Loved the B-day present scene too.

-B

I think I have to agree with you there.

Spoiler:

I always believed that a persona bedroom is a truly personal space. It reflects who a person is without those emotional barriers. Liz was entering his personal space, It a place that John could be him self, and he willingly shows that to her. And he doesn't turn her away. I think its another step in their ever growing relationship.

ok, I dont know if that actually made sense, but you get the jist!

-Moo

[SnoggingPicard]

For awhile there was a small group of fans who were into the Dom/submissive thing with Teyla and Shep, but luckily that seems to have died out.

I actually think Liz would look great with a whip . . . um. . . nevermind. *LOL*

Wow! Remind me never to bring up the issue of dominatrix again!

[Bama]

Have you guys seen what James Bamford said on his blog. Nothing new I know but

Spoiler:

Weir is seen in a very different light on this one..............you will love it.

I'm really confused. I thought before Conversion that Elizabeth may have some hidden skills in fighting but if she had some, she would have defend herself against Sheppard. I mean, even if she was certain he was not going to hurt her, it would have been natural that she tries to defend herself. But she did not. Though, when I read that line, I get the impression that we will see another side of Weir but not because she might be under the control of something. Though I did not see how she could have some fighting skills without having shown them before ?

Any thoughts ?

Snoopoony

Oh yeah, you KNOW I have some.

Spoiler:

No, Elizabeth knew better than to even try to defend herself against wraithjohn. She knew there was no way she could match him physically at that transformation point no matter what 'skill' she might throw up against him. To fight him, might have enraged that side of him to the point that he would have seriously hurt her or worse. Same with teyla. Both the women realized submission to the physical dominance thing was the best course of action. Even in his hand, and pinned against the wall in pain, she was trying to talk to him and find the real john inside him and reason with him. That's Elizabeth's best strength no matter what kind of physical skill she may possess and she knows it.

As for the TLG spoilers. I think Elizabeth may also not be quite 'herself' in the episode and affected by something. I can't imagine what would happen to make her such a great fighter but we'll see...It just sound like an awesome episode whatever happens!

-B ; )

[Melyanna]

Delurking here...

John regularly spars with Teyla and very likely injures her. I count that as real violence against women, not some annoying kiss. Now the choke hold - that's another matter altogether! I hope we don't get anymore of this between John and Liz. Once is enough. And I feel the same way about Liz beating up on John. I'm not very comfortable with it, to be honest.

Favorite moment: The Hug is # 1. Very cool moment between the two. John willing to give himself up for Atlantis and Liz's angst is #2. John shooting Kolya and Liz's reaction to that is #3.

Hurting each other while sparring is one matter. It's hard to practice any martial form without getting hurt, even though you're not trying to get hurt. I once did some serious damage to a sparring partner because she wasn't moving fast enough. Was that violence against a woman? No, I didn't intend to hurt her, and I wasn't attacking her in any but the most literal sense of the word.

Conversion

Spoiler:

Now, getting slammed into a wall after being disarmed in a frightening show of superior strength and then being suddenly grabbed and kissed, with no way of getting out of it, is an act of violence. Can you imagine what might have happened if John hadn't snapped back into a more human way of thinking? The kiss scene and the second bedroom scene are very similar in tone. As I said yesterday, the kiss is just a more human expression of the transformation. Both scenes involve a woman not giving him what he wants – with Teyla, the more primal Wraith side obviously wants something physical from her. With Elizabeth it's more complicated, because it's what John wants, not necessarily the Wraith. But it's obviously still the Wraith side that lashes out against her, and John who manages to let her go before he loses control completely. What impresses me most is that even though John came so close to killing her, Elizabeth still recognized what was acting, and probably recognized that John let her go because he couldn't hurt her, not because letting her go would in any way serve the Wraith mind's purposes.

As for this stuff on The Long Goodbye,

Spoiler:

I suspect that we're actually going to be seeing some aftermath of all this in the form of Elizabeth learning to defend herself. Perhaps Ronon teaches her, and in this episode she's showing off for John and kicks his butt. (Really, that woman is built such that she could do some serious damage without a weapon.) I'd say that happens early in the episode, and later she has to actually defend herself in a real situation. Just a guess, though. I've got next-to-nothing on this episode.

Someone wanted my take on the final scene of Conversion, so here it is.

Spoiler:

It was another nail in the coffin of Shep/Teyla. Teyla looked positively relieved that he didn't want to really address what happened, and, well, John said it himself. It was something he'd never do in his right mind. I know a lot of people have said that his inhibitions were lowered (which I don't think was the whole deal – I've been on codeine before, and mostly it just made me rather fuzzily detached from what was going on around me), but not every guy gets drunk and kisses his pretty and platonic friend. I think the codeine analogy was a way to describe how he was feeling, not how he was acting. Just because the thought of kissing Teyla had crossed his mind once or twice since he met her doesn't mean he's madly in love. In fact, the fact that he now considers it out of character means he probably dismissed the idea of romancing her a long time ago.

Anyway. I think it all comes back to the kind of interaction John has with these two women. Look back at last season – John almost never had any kind of personal interaction with Teyla after the first few episodes. For that matter, he almost never had a real conversation with her, whether about work or other matters. Most of the time he was very dismissive of her. (Who among us remembers her using the traditional warrior-princess girlfriend line – "I will fight at your side!" – in The Eye, and John telling her to do as she was told? )

But with Elizabeth, he seeks her out, professionally and personally. In Conversion, Caldwell's question of Elizabeth wasn't out of the blue, like the Shep/Teyla incident was. But they're not just close because they've been through so much. They're close because they've sought each other. That's what I love about this ship. It's not based on pretty boy and pretty girl being attracted to each other. It's about two adults with huge responsibilities finding companionship and understanding in unlikely places – each other.

[Bama]

I think I have to agree with you there.

Spoiler:

I always believed that a persona bedroom is a truly personal space. It reflects who a person is without those emotional barriers. Liz was entering his personal space, It a place that John could be him self, and he willingly shows that to her. And he doesn't turn her away. I think its another step in their ever growing relationship.

ok, I dont know if that actually made sense, but you get the jist!

-Moo

Oh I 'get' you and just add this incident to SouthernRed and my ever growing list of 'married' type things that goes on between them. There's a subliminal 'under the surface' thing that goes on between the two of them constantly that screams intimate RELATIONSHIP! ; )

The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to half think pooh at Zero. Point. Snark. is so very right. SO DOING IT!


-B

[Bama]

Whoo MEL! GREAT POST! I have a meeting to go to but I'm SO gonna address your thoughts when i get back!
-B ; )

[manybleemsago]

I think I have to agree with you there.

Spoiler:

I always believed that a persona bedroom is a truly personal space. It reflects who a person is without those emotional barriers. Liz was entering his personal space, It a place that John could be him self, and he willingly shows that to her. And he doesn't turn her away. I think its another step in their ever growing relationship.

ok, I dont know if that actually made sense, but you get the jist!

-Moo

You know, my imagination is running wild thinking about the potential shippiness the *next* time she enters his quarters. He invites her in, she's very professional but secretly extremely pleased to be there. Lots of eye romance, etc. The possibilites are endless.

Big sigh...

[Rubicon]

You know, my imagination is running wild thinking about the potential shippiness the *next* time she enters his quarters. He invites her in, she's very professional but secretly extremely pleased to be there. Lots of eye romance, etc. The possibilites are endless.

Big sigh...

manybleems you stay un-lurked!! ::stamps foot::

[manybleemsago]

manybleems you stay un-lurked!! ::stamps foot::

Awww. You just made my day!!

[Major_Moomin]

You know, my imagination is running wild thinking about the potential shippiness the *next* time she enters his quarters. He invites her in, she's very professional but secretly extremely pleased to be there. Lots of eye romance, etc. The possibilites are endless.

Big sigh...

Gotta love the Eye Sex!!

-Moo

[seetheship]

In response to fave moments ......My fave defining moments?...any scene with Sparky!(tm) LOL...but I especially liked:-
1. Rising - the first argument on balcony `cos that`s where I saw the first "spark between John & Liz
2. 38 Min - John been resuscitated and Liz`s reaction & relief
3. The Eye - Kolya moment
4. Siege 2 -

Spoiler:

John defends Liz` leadership abilities and states he trusts & respects her
5. Siege 3 - John`s worry while on Daedalus ...with him calling "`Lizabeth" in that frantic tone of voice , he was clearly more than worried about Atlantis
- the HUG scene
6. Intruder - canteen scene
and who can forget Liz facing down SG 1 command about keeping John on as Atlantis` Military Commander ...she was fighting for more than just for his job
- Liz sniffing out the "Simon" candle...
7.Conversion - John : "It`s my life we`re talking about -" Liz`s emotional : "I know that"
- John "...then kill me now..it`s better for the BOTH of us!": Liz`s "I can`t do that.."
- Her plea with Carson to find cure for John
- Liz`s reaction both physical and verbal to Baldwell`s 'you two are pretty close,arent you?"

....and so the list can go on & on but pretty much all the above scenes /moments have already been passionately discussed and analysed( ) in previous thread posts. I suppose we can find Sparky! in any JE moments ...even the odd ones "Conversion" was pretty much the shippiest episode to date! addendum.....post Siege3 of course! how could I forget that ep!

Ps Best line in "Conversion":-

Spoiler:

John: "Anything that has you speechless , has me concerned"...