Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Bama]

Guys I HAVE to share this incredible post from the sci-fi board. That board is usually full of a lot of crap but if you wade thru it, there are some good ones. Weir was taking punches for her actions in conversion by some over there (one guess who was leading the parade?) but this post LITERALLY brought tears to my eyes in it's simple truths and beauty. Enjoy.


From 'Calm Storm' in Texas:

Just wanted to add.....Weir is the one who gave Sheppard a second chance. It seemed most in the military were ready to write him off. From 'Letters from Pegaus', we learned that there was noone he wanted to send a message back home to....as if there was really nothing for him there.

He now has a life in Atlantis and a purpose where none seem to exist before. Why does he have this new life? He has it because Weir stood up for him and gave him the chance against the objections of Sumner and warnings from O'Neill. I think he realizes this and feels indebted to her. How would you feel if someone stood up for you, saw the good in you that others ignored? I know that I would want to prove myself to that person and let them know that their trust was not misplaced.

Now, where Weir is concerned......she gave Sheppard a chance and he did the very best with that chance and has more than proven himself. He has protected her and her expedition team on more than one occasion and was willing to make the highest sacrifice for them. Yet she continues to have to justify him to to the military. They were once again ready to write him off and place Caldwell in charge....quite honestly I'd be very short with the military brass too in defending him.

Is it any surprise that they seem to have an especially strong bond given all that they have been through and what each has done for the other? I think they both recognize that each has a good heart and have the best of intentions in mind and have both sacraficed much. They both have an extremely heavy weight on their shoulders and both recognize this in each other. Whether one or the other has romantic feelings is something still yet to be determined.

As much talk as their is of pairing off the cast, I don't think TPTB are going to take any concrete direction on that....just continue to tease and keep tension up with the various possibilities.


***
Here's a direct link to the board: http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php...=1#Post1227078

[Rubicon]

I have information (meaning casting sides) on The Lost Boys, The Hive, Critical Mass, Michael, The Tower, and Coup d'État. If I don't have casting sides on an episode, it generally means there are no new guest stars. So no, I haven't got anything on Grace Under Pressure.

As the episode neared, I was worried that I'd followed my gut and lulled you all into a false sense of security or something.

Being the spoilerhooker I am, the spoiler info is where?

I think we are going to have to start rubbing Melyannas guts for luck for the rest of the season! Like a mascot or something, move over Jor!

[Athenaktt]

Loved it. Loved this line. "Two words: Aqua Velva."

That line was not in my original draft of the fic, it just popped out of Elizabeth's mouth when I was typing it up. Those characters have a mind of their own I tell ya!

[Bama]

Good fic!!!!


Speaking of 'games'...my husband pointed this one out a bit ago as he was reading in the kitchen over my shoulder.

Spoiler:

I haven't heard anyone mention that Elizabeth was playing 'Solitaire' and Colonel Skinner offered to play her in a game of 'chess'. LOL! I thought it a cute touch in the ep by the writer. A little play on what is about to transpire there. Anyone have any thoughts on Elizabeth's choice of game? Oddly enough, the thought of her sitting in her office alone worried and passing time on her computer made me a little...I don't know...sad for her I guess. I think the ep itself pointed out how 'alone' she is at times and isolated. We see her go off in the last scene alone after her parting shot at Caldwell after the 'team' stays behind. It's like she's a 'part' of them but yet, she's not quite because of her position. John is her 'link' to the ground. He's her reality. Her touchstone. (yeah, I don't want to hear it xf fans) ; ) And without him, she really is playing a game of 'solitaire'.

-B

[Athenaktt]

Thanks!

I don't where I read or heard about this, but I remember hearing that Torri loves to play games on Weir's palm pilot when they are on set. So I wonder if they were making fun of Torri a bit there in that scene.

I agree because of Elizabeth's position she kind of keeps a distance from most people, except for John. I guess that's why

Spoiler:

it prompted that question by Caldwell about how close they were to each other. Since he sees how they rely on each other so much, even though he's been on Atlantis for some a short period of time.

[Alaskhah]

As long as everyone keeps their hands to themselves (unless, of course, it's J/E in regard to each other).

If I were Weir, I would already be so suspicious of Caldwell that I would be keeping such a close eye on him that it would hamper his ability to scheme.

And what better way to size up the competition than to

Spoiler:

play a game of chess...? You're supposed to keep your friends close and your enemies closer, right? I'd be interested to know the outcome of the game, just to see if his "military strategist" credentials got him anywhere. I think she was "spot on" when she gave him that friendly reminder about not wanting to be her enemy.

Our Elizabeth is one smart cookie, and not one to be messed with... Well, 'cept by a certain charming Lt. Colonel, but even he needs to watch out from time to time!

[SallyLizzie]

You know, I read a quote not too long ago that addressed Caldwell. I cannot remember who said it and I am paraphrasing, but it was something to the effect that he was going to cause some problems between John and Elizabeth (I don't think it was shippy, I thought it was more character related). I know I read the quote and it was one of the actors that said it, I think. I immediately thought it would be a Hot Zone type of issue, and the "trust" of Weir's decisions comes back up.
I could go for that, but I am not a big fan of "rifts" between characters. It is tough to pull off, especially if the show does not follow through well. And Atlantis has not proved to me that it follows through yet, which is part of why I worry about them doing Shep/Weir properly.

I believe you're thinking of the MP interview at GW.

And there will be shifts between these characters, too, as far as -- at one point Sheppard and Caldwell will be unified in how they feel toward something, and trying to convince Weir that they're right. And there will be times when Weir and Caldwell or Weir and Sheppard are trying to tell Caldwell, "Look, it ain't gonna work. Believe us, we know." And he'll take some convincing...........

So there's some pretty juicy exchanges between Weir's character and Caldwell, and also between Sheppard and Caldwell. There's some contention that's being developed. But then again, it's there but I don't want this guy to be -- and I don't think they want him to be -- a jerk. So there's always got to be a reason behind everything that he does. And there's got to be a valid reason, I think, in his mind............

No, but he gives [Shep] his props when they're due, too. If he does something, if he pulls something off that Caldwell deems as being that he did a good job, he'll tell him. And I have. Sometimes, even if it's not written -- he'll do something and over the radio I'll go, "Good job." Just to show that he does have an appreciation for this guy. This guy's a stud -- he's an ace pilot, and he's really good at what he does.

I'm sure i've posted bits of the interview before but as we're talking about it, and there a re so many noobies i thought i'd post (what i thought were relevant) exerpts again.

Could the part i highlighted be Critical Mass?

Spoiler:

i can see Liz still not wanting to torture a prisoner, but John and Caldwell agreeing that it the necessary action to take. Especially if it has the potential to give them a strategic advantage.

Athena, i loved your fic.

[Feli]

Think temporary. With a heavier focus on his missions leaving caldwell on homebase to butt heads with liz at times and even on some missions to butt heads with shep at times and a wrestle for control always. Breaking down and building up... I don't see a co-command if shep messes up like he's prone to. All the pointers edge to a liz/caldwell battle for control with Eliz. being the one caught in the middle between shep and his superior. it has potential for great stuff but also for some indigestion for us shippers at times. sigh...we are gluttons for punishment aren't we?

I haven't read any spoilers, so I'm wondering: are you basing your thoughts of Shep's future role on spoilers or your own speculation?

Because I really don't want to see Shep "demoted" by losing command to Caldwell! IMO there's enough potential for conflict between the three under the current status quo with Caldwell doing his best to get control of Atlantis for himself. I don't want to see John screw up so massively that command of Atlantis would automatically fall into Caldwell's hands.

On a related subject: some people have noted that they saw

Spoiler:

the Caldwell/Weir scenes in Conversion as Caldwell being interesting in Liz romantically. I didn't get any of those vibes - what did I miss?

[wizengamot]

And what better way to size up the competition than to

Spoiler:

play a game of chess...? You're supposed to keep your friends close and your enemies closer, right? I'd be interested to know the outcome of the game, just to see if his "military strategist" credentials got him anywhere. I think she was "spot on" when she gave him that friendly reminder about not wanting to be her enemy.

Our Elizabeth is one smart cookie, and not one to be messed with... Well, 'cept by a certain charming Lt. Colonel, but even he needs to watch out from time to time!

OMG IT'S A HAH!!!! <3 Anywhoo... good points. I would venture Elizabeth won but it just could be me channeling Spice Girl's universal theme of "Girl Power"

And Feli, did you not see that caldwell was all "I'll check your queen" with his eyes...

[SallyLizzie]

OMG IT'S A HAH!!!! <3 Anywhoo... good points. I would venture Elizabeth won but it just could be me channeling Spice Girl's universal theme of "Girl Power"

And Feli, did you not see that caldwell was all "I'll check your queen" with his eyes...

Lol, there's a theory doing the rounds that Liz and Caldwell sexed it up after the chess game and that is why she was so mad at him later...coz it ended badly...or something

Conversion fic rec....and another one.

ETA: Last one, promise Romancing the STone Chapter 3. Very funny

[Lexa Jayde]

i just read apology accepted at fanfiction.net and i though that it was brilliant and i loved it to pieces and there are quite a few more that are on there... on page 2

just thought that i would share that

Ooohh just saying again, please please, pretty please, anyone going to the convention, Torri and Joe, in Sydney Australia on Nov. 5th this year could they please contact me at [email protected] i would like to talk to you guys about it... thnx

[macktheknife]

ETA: Last one, promise Romancing the STone Chapter 3. Very funny

Disclaimer: If they were mine, they would have christened the puddle jumpers already. Numerous times, in an endless variety of positions.

[Bama]

And what better way to size up the competition than to

Spoiler:

play a game of chess...? You're supposed to keep your friends close and your enemies closer, right? I'd be interested to know the outcome of the game, just to see if his "military strategist" credentials got him anywhere. I think she was "spot on" when she gave him that friendly reminder about not wanting to be her enemy.

Our Elizabeth is one smart cookie, and not one to be messed with... Well, 'cept by a certain charming Lt. Colonel, but even he needs to watch out from time to time!

I wouldn't mind seein ol baldy try somethin just so she could knee him in the happies but even I know I'm wishin with that one. ; ) Yeah, Caldwell won't play 'chess' better than Weir. He thinks he might but she has done poker face for a living for a number of years with quite the nice success rate. But of course, he does have a lot of experience. I think anything that causes Shep and Weir to contest each other in some way or to have to hang together with each other has the chance to be shippy. Whenever they're on screen together, there's a chance for shippy and Caldwell helps provide that. So, I'm all for him as long as he keeps his hands to himself. He can say whatever he wants and I figure he will.

-B

[Bama]

I haven't read any spoilers, so I'm wondering: are you basing your thoughts of Shep's future role on spoilers or your own speculation?

Because I really don't want to see Shep "demoted" by losing command to Caldwell! IMO there's enough potential for conflict between the three under the current status quo with Caldwell doing his best to get control of Atlantis for himself. I don't want to see John screw up so massively that command of Atlantis would automatically fall into Caldwell's hands.

On a related subject: some people have noted that they saw

Spoiler:

the Caldwell/Weir scenes in Conversion as Caldwell being interesting in Liz romantically. I didn't get any of those vibes - what did I miss?

Oh, my own spec of course. With a little deductive reasoning mixed in. The thing is, whenever Caldwell is THERE, Shep is instantly demoted. I want that to be a temp thing too (meaning caldwell at some point must DIE. ; ) But, I don't mind him hanging around long enough to cause my boy and girl some heartburn and give them just ANOTHER reason to bond. ahhhhh...

Let me edit this to add...From reading Mitch's remarks about what the writers want from him, it appears he is to be just that, 'a stick stirrer'. The obvious reason he was brought in was to make more havoc and drama between our boy and girl. ; ) To me, that's a good thing because it assures that they're going to remain the focus relationship and it creates a situation where they can either bond over the common 'enemy' or be hurt at one another when/if they choose to side with the 'enemy'. Trust me, we want ops for John and Elizabeth to be hurt toward each other. Make ups are so nice....

-B

[Vixen]

They certainly would - I fancy the pants off all four of them

Imagine the tango scene

Weir was taking punches for her actions in conversion by some over there (one guess who was leading the parade?) but this post LITERALLY brought tears to my eyes in it's simple truths and beauty. Enjoy.

Definitely a great post with a lot of truth to it.

Is it any surprise that they seem to have an especially strong bond given all that they have been through and what each has done for the other? I think they both recognize that each has a good heart and have the best of intentions in mind and have both sacraficed much. They both have an extremely heavy weight on their shoulders and both recognize this in each other. Whether one or the other has romantic feelings is something still yet to be determined.

Bravo.

I think this person has defended these two in previous posts as well.