Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Finnstardust]

LMAO!!

Hey, that's EXACTLY the relationship i have with chocolate bars


*looks around*

*whistles innocently*

*discretely empties inbox*

Weird indeed.

I'm pretty sure there's already a vid to 'Clocks'...but can't think where. Sorry

HAPPY BIRTHDAY FINNSTARDUST!

Thanx to everyone for the nice birthday wishes

I have a question about Conversion.

Spoiler:

You've mentioned about John putting his hand through a pane of glass in Lizzes window. What exactly were the circumstances? How early was it in the ep...did he know about his Wraithyness? How did Liz react..did she flinch?

Thank you!!
Well I haven't seen Conversion yet but after looking at the pictures a few pages back I think I may end up with nightmares once I do see the ep.

[macktheknife]

Haha! Knew that'd get a response.... okay. Will go and read for the FIFTH time!!!
Football is a no-no for me right now. MY team just got beaten and is no longer in the finals....

But the mighty dragons remain.

I have a question about Conversion.

Spoiler:

You've mentioned about John putting his hand through a pane of glass in Lizzes window. What exactly were the circumstances? How early was it in the ep...did he know about his Wraithyness? How did Liz react..did she flinch?

Spoiler:

Well, shep wanted to go on the mission, but Weir would'nt let him, he asked repeatedly, got about 3 "no's" then turned around and broke the glass. Then he sort of did what ford did when he strangled beckett, he got all apologetic and went back to the infirmary.

[xkawaiix]

Happy birthday Finnstardust and SallyLizzie!!!!!!!!!


lol, friend's picture btw.

[Bama]

Sally, about your Conversion question:

Spoiler:

He was insisting that Elizabeth let him go on this very dangerous mission to get their hands on the bugs' eggs, in hopes that that would lead them to a cure. After she told him no repeatedly, and after his repeated assurances that he could do this, he lost control completely and put a fist through her wall. Security people started running up with weapons drawn, and Elizabeth screamed at them to lower their weapons. At that point, John got a hold of himself and backed off.

It was really kind of interesting to see how John would lash out and pull back. The most amazing of them was with Elizabeth in his room. He really could have killed her so easily, but he didn't. I'd like to think that some small part of John was still in there, fighting for control of himself, and managed to overcome long enough to let her go.

Mel,

I don't know if you caught my post from yesterday but 'good call' on saying that Teyla's reactions would be key.

What was your 'take' on things. I'm interested to know if it matched up somewhat with your thinking.

-B ; )

[SallyLizzie]

Thanx Mel and Mack. I seriously can't wait to see this, it sounds like the best ep of S2 so far.

Thanx Kawaii!! Hehe, i love your friends pic Reminded me of the song 'Lollipop' by DJ Aligator Project....which in turn reminded me of JohnLiz

[Melyanna]

Yeah, I did read yesterday's posts. Lots of good conversation. And what can I say, I don't mind being right about some things.

I've not posted yet and probably won't until tomorrow because I've only watched the episode once. And the one time I DID watch it was well after midnight on Friday night (guess it was actually Saturday...), and I've been super-busy since. I've been able to read, but not do much else. On top of my usual stuff, right now I'm trying to finish knitting two gifts that have to be done before the end of the month, and I'm also setting up another Stargate AU community. (This one involves spies. And no, I didn't really need another project, but darn it, the idea of John and Elizabeth as spies is just so much fun!) Anyway, I'll get around to posting my take on the episode at some point early this week, once things around me have calmed down a bit.

[Finnstardust]

Happy birthday Finnstardust and SallyLizzie!!!!!!!!!


lol, friend's picture btw.

Thanks!

Ooh, I like that picture!!! It's...hmm, delicious.

[Southern Red]

Things I missed in the first viewing but caught in the second:

Spoiler:

l. At the end, John also breathed a sigh of relief as Teyla walked away.
2. John implied that he should apologize to Teyla, but was it for kissing her or for being violent? She was surprised and unsure what to do. She had already noticed something was wrong when he showed new skill at fighting and waited to see what he would do. She didn't touch him or respond except to put her hands up defensively. She treated him exactly like he was her superior not like it was something she wanted to repeat. Teyla is insightful and good at reading people, remember her sympathy and attempt to help Ford. How would she have acted if he had done the same thing? At the end it just seemed she wanted to forget it ever happened.
3. John's "it's better for the both of us" was a whoa moment. Not all of us, not the team or the mission, but just us two.
4. There's something about the way John and Eliz converse that reminds me of a married couple, a certain understanding and comfort level. Friendship? Maybe, but I have a male friend I've been close to for many years and he treats me like a sister. We never have the sort of mental connection I see with these 2, but my husband and I do. Several people have mentioned that if they pursue a ship with John and Teyla, it will be based just on physical attraction. I think true just because they are both beautiful people who get hot and sweaty together (fighting). She doesn't seem like the type though to get all giggly over a cute guy giving her the eye. She knows John is a flirt and enjoys it, but IMHO she doesn't exactly want to pitch a tent with him.
5. There was a look between Eliz and Tey when the military guys went off to capture John that seemed to say, "I promise I won't kill him." As perceptive as Teyla is, it seems impossible that she has missed what is obvious to Carson, Rodney and Colonel Caldwell.
Next I was thinking about the progression of bipolar John's condition as a gradual dropping of inhibitions and loss of control of his baser instincts.
1. snarky and flip with Carson
2. snarky and almost belligerent with Ronon Notice how he juts out his chin in an almost challenging way.
3. forward, violent and sexually aggressive with Teyla You can see the switch flip in his mind from wraith John to sweet John
4. verbally abusive with Eliz and violent toward inanimate objects
5. verbally and physically abusive with Eliz and others. He used his body to intimidate her just like with Teyla but was in control enough to stop himself. Did he kind of drag his hand down her body when he let go of her neck? Did his body language remind anyone else of various wraith--red-headed female, wraith who came to dinner in Condemned? Excellent job, Joe. Scared me.

Why did I miss all this the first time. My excuse is JF is so distracting I forgot to pay attention I kept thinking about Will Smith in MIB, "Damn, I make this look good."

Thanks, if anybody's still reading, for letting me ramble. I'm usually not an analyst but just can't seem to help it this time. Feedback please or just say "shut up, Red. You're way off the mark." Stop me before I watch it again.

[Whistler84]

Thanks!

Ooh, I like that picture!!! It's...hmm, delicious.

Are you talking about the lollypop, or John?

[seetheship]

Thanks, if anybody's still reading, for letting me ramble. I'm usually not an analyst but just can't seem to help it this time. Feedback please or just say "shut up, Red. You're way off the mark." Stop me before I watch it again.

Don`t worry Red ..we still here reading and liking it very much. I have a feeling that around here the Conversion analysis will still continue way into winter hiatus. It is definately worth watching more than once and its amazing what you can add after sitting through a few repeat rounds. I agree teh _Joe is very distracting ..looking both uughhh and droolicious at the same time. This ep despite the hype surrounding "you know what" was very,very John & Liz -centric.....they were indeed like a married couple throughout and TH - Lizzie angst was awesome. Major acting kudos to both JF/TH alike

[SoulSpinder]

Thanks, if anybody's still reading, for letting me ramble. I'm usually not an analyst but just can't seem to help it this time. Feedback please or just say "shut up, Red. You're way off the mark." Stop me before I watch it again.

Um , you're welcome? BEcause that was quite an intresting set of observations. A few of them I hadn't really noted.


I have on question (to anyone) my mind just might be failing me, but... There's several referances to how all the others are starting to get it. In Southern Red's post she pointed out Carson, Caldwell, and Rodney specifically.

WE all understand Caldwell, I see Carson. But, when has Rodney displayed this slight recognition? I ...can't remember x.x Forgive!

[Bama]

Things I missed in the first viewing but caught in the second:

Spoiler:

l. At the end, John also breathed a sigh of relief as Teyla walked away.
2. John implied that he should apologize to Teyla, but was it for kissing her or for being violent? She was surprised and unsure what to do. She had already noticed something was wrong when he showed new skill at fighting and waited to see what he would do. She didn't touch him or respond except to put her hands up defensively. She treated him exactly like he was her superior not like it was something she wanted to repeat. Teyla is insightful and good at reading people, remember her sympathy and attempt to help Ford. How would she have acted if he had done the same thing? At the end it just seemed she wanted to forget it ever happened.
3. John's "it's better for the both of us" was a whoa moment. Not all of us, not the team or the mission, but just us two.
4. There's something about the way John and Eliz converse that reminds me of a married couple, a certain understanding and comfort level. Friendship? Maybe, but I have a male friend I've been close to for many years and he treats me like a sister. We never have the sort of mental connection I see with these 2, but my husband and I do. Several people have mentioned that if they pursue a ship with John and Teyla, it will be based just on physical attraction. I think true just because they are both beautiful people who get hot and sweaty together (fighting). She doesn't seem like the type though to get all giggly over a cute guy giving her the eye. She knows John is a flirt and enjoys it, but IMHO she doesn't exactly want to pitch a tent with him.
5. There was a look between Eliz and Tey when the military guys went off to capture John that seemed to say, "I promise I won't kill him." As perceptive as Teyla is, it seems impossible that she has missed what is obvious to Carson, Rodney and Colonel Caldwell.
Next I was thinking about the progression of bipolar John's condition as a gradual dropping of inhibitions and loss of control of his baser instincts.
1. snarky and flip with Carson
2. snarky and almost belligerent with Ronon Notice how he juts out his chin in an almost challenging way.
3. forward, violent and sexually aggressive with Teyla You can see the switch flip in his mind from wraith John to sweet John
4. verbally abusive with Eliz and violent toward inanimate objects
5. verbally and physically abusive with Eliz and others. He used his body to intimidate her just like with Teyla but was in control enough to stop himself. Did he kind of drag his hand down her body when he let go of her neck? Did his body language remind anyone else of various wraith--red-headed female, wraith who came to dinner in Condemned? Excellent job, Joe. Scared me.

Why did I miss all this the first time. My excuse is JF is so distracting I forgot to pay attention I kept thinking about Will Smith in MIB, "Damn, I make this look good."

Thanks, if anybody's still reading, for letting me ramble. I'm usually not an analyst but just can't seem to help it this time. Feedback please or just say "shut up, Red. You're way off the mark." Stop me before I watch it again.

FANTASTIC post Red!

Let me address your #4 and #5!

You are incredibly spot 'on' with number four. It pounds me everytime I watch them together. If you've never been married or haven't been for any length of time, you may not entirely 'get' what Red and I are getting so excited about here. But she's old and so am I and being long-term marrieds, we see it so clearly. ; ) When you connect on that level with that special someone and you grow together as a unit over time, you begin to sense the other's thoughts.

Spoiler:

Like John knew ahead of time that Elizabeth would use protocol on him. "That's your excuse for everything." (That is SUCH a 'couple' line and red I think it's why both your and my shippy sensor button went off on it. ; )

You begin to sense and anticipate the actions the other will take. You begin to finish each other's sentences and develop a trust through sharing that you will never have with anyone else-not your mom, not a close friend, not your brother and certainly not sexy workmates in skippy clothing. ; ) I *love* your line about Tey not wanting to 'pitch a tent with him'. Not only is it LOL funny it is so dead on true imo. Like I said in an earlier post, they've had a handful of 'real' conversations about anything meaningful in the two years they've been teammates and they're not much closer than they were when john met her in that cave. That same 'oddness' exists between them. That same 'boundry' that they'll never get quite past because they're not 'right' for each other in any sense of the word. I could get into the reasoning there but this post might break a record length if I did. Why didn't Tey volunteer to be the one to go talk to him? Why didn't she try and confront him and 'reach' him? Because she isn't the one that 'reaches' him under any normal circumstance. Elizabeth does. Huge, huge difference in the base of these two relationships. Curiosity and attraction can and does wear off over prolonged exposure and rational experience. True connection between two people never does.

As for your #5,

Spoiler:

I too caught the 'look' only on the second viewing and thought it a bit significant. It was like the women shared a moment of 'this is important' and 'he is important' so we don't need to blow this.

Again, it is Teyla who is the wisest of John's team. She's oddly mature despite those belly revealing outfits. You make a great point about her not missing anything. She will sense things too just as everyone else but John seems to be doing.

[seetheship]

SoulS........He`s asked John twice now to convince Elizabeth to agree to let them do the stupid thing of the week like in Trinity and I think in S1`s Defiant One (?) and why?..`cos he knows Liz cannot say no to John.. ..... Yup even dense in the romance dept Rodney has picked up the vibey thing between JE and that says alot IMHO

[Bama]

WE all understand Caldwell, I see Carson. But, when has Rodney displayed this slight recognition? I ...can't remember x.x Forgive!

"Elizabeth will listen to you."

Ring a bell? ; )

-B

[Southern Red]

Thanks. I was thinking about when Rodney

Spoiler:

went to John's room in Trinity and asked him to talk to Eliz because "she'll listen to you."