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**Eri13** · 25 March 2009, 07:02 AM

*squeaks rust out of fingers* Okay, well, it's been a while, but here we go!

Honestly, as you may have noticed, I haven't been looking forward to the next two episode recaps. Not my favorite episodes, and each one winds us a leetle closer to my least favorite episode in terms of story--First Strike.

But, that type of thinking is what lets people like me forget that most television series, even the episodes you aren't fond of at first glance, have redeeming qualities. And I can say with some alacrity that I've terribly misjudged The Ark. There are five fabulous qualities about the story that make it an honest-to-goodness good episode, and I'll spell them out here:

T-E-Y-L-A
L-O-R-N-E
M-U-S-I-C
D-R-A-M-A
C-U-P-E-R-U-S

Okay, that last one isn't five letters, but he is the core reason this story, on many levels, works as an episode. Which is not surprising, coming from the scribe of Common Ground. So, without further adieu, let's get to:

The Ark

The Ark begins with a plot device not unfamiliar to television watchers, but unusual for SGA--a cliffhanger forward-flash. We see John, attempting something that looks dangerous, but we don't have the wheres and whys. All we get, after a few seconds of initial curiosity, is a flashback-descriptor: 8 Hours Earlier.

In the flashback, we see John and Rodney (looking like 1960's cosmonauts--what's up with that?) exploring what John calls an antiquated space station built into a moon. Despite John's lack of enthusiasm, Rodney is excited about the potential developments this station may hold. Cuperus manages to give us that feeling of 'no, don't!' with these sequences, since we know what's coming. You sort of want Rodney to heed John's advice and turn around.

Seriously, Rodney's head thing. Seriously.

As a throw out to one of my 'five' listed above, I will say that one of the things that caught me first about The Ark was the music. I don't know what they did differently here, but this soundtrack really stood out throughout the story. It was epic, and in many parts, lovely.

Back to the story--Rodney's curiosity is too much to contain, and he makes the first mistake of the day--powering up the station. Through an unusual beaming technology, a young man suddenly appears in the station. John contacts Elizabeth to let her know the situation, and they agree to check back in one hour later.

Though The Ark only boasts very minor Sparky, we do get something here, with John and Elizabeth finishing each other's sentences.

The young man is a technician named Herick, who explains that the station was built to be an "Ark" for his people, who were under siege from the Wraith. On board the station were supposed to be 2,000 souls trapped in wraith-beam stasis.

One of Cuperus's strongest talents is what I call 'the quiet'. It's the moments that don't really have an active purpose. Just the small parts where characters are just talking and reacting, thinking, observing, or communicating. Not so much plot forwarding as just developing. Cuperus really has this nailed--he did it with Todd in Common Ground, and again with Herick here. Before Herick goes kamikaze on our crew, you really kinda like him.

Herick is puzzled by the lack of a second storage vessel, and beams out one of the civilization's leaders--a fellow called Jamus. If he looks familiar, he should--Kenneth Welsh has been around for years as a character actor.

Jamus, another character Cuperus makes interesting off the bat, explains the unfortunate circumstances--the second 'Ark' never made it off their planet, it was detained when a few members of the group could not get to the launch pad in time. What is sad is that Herick's wife and child were supposed to be on that second ark, and as a result, are dead.

John has a lot of funny 'side' moments in this episode--stuff you wouldn't catch on the first go around, perhaps. Note when Jamus mentions the thousand souls in the Ark John's got his foot on, he gives a little embarrassed look and quickly removes his foot.

The result of this revelation isn't palpable at first--Herick seems set to go about his business restoring the remaining Ark and repopulating his planet.

In a moment I applaud the writer for, we get a token of wisdom from Ronon. Perhaps not eloquent, but certainly understanding of the situation:

SHEPPARD (to Jamus): We'll leave you folks to it. (Jamus nods. The other three start to leave the room.)
DEX: Look, Sheppard. I wouldn't leave this guy with that guy right
now – not unless you want this guy dead.
SHEPPARD: You really think he would, uh ...?
DEX: *I* would. (The three of them stop in the doorway and look back at Jamus, who is now working on the transfer device. John thinks about it for a
moment.)
SHEPPARD: Jamus, we're gonna stick around for a while – make sure
everyone gets safely back to the planet. Happy to give you a ride if
you need one.

The downside to Ronon's casual observation is that, once again, our folks decide to stick around and make sure the situation doesn't go out of control. Which, unfortunately, it does.

Another of my 'top 5' elements to this story begins her slow evolution to importance here. Teyla, on seeing Herick's attitude as he appears to be preparing the shuttle, knows something's wrong. She attempts to soothe him, but to no avail. And with Herick's understated, not overly dramatized response, we begin to pick up on where this story is really going. Again, it's that 'quiet' that the writer eschews so well.

And here begins the third of my 'top 5': Drama. For somehow, despite this story being a stand alone, I found that it features some of the most dramatic scenes in season 3. Which is high praise from me, considering how little of Doctor Weir and Atlantis is in it. The sequence of Herick destroying the shuttle, and our group's race to save themselves, is one of the most well-done dramatic sequences on SGA I've ever seen. Not only were the special effects eye popping, but for some reason, the pacing and music turn this into a seriously fantastic series of breath-catching moments. I particularly love John's slow motion struggle to close the last of the hatch doors before dropping to the floor.

Minor gripe: once atmosphere gets vented into space, isn't your brain supposed to get sucked out of your nose or something, because of the vacuum pressure? One of those science moments gone horribly awry here?

The writer here chooses to go down the path of splitting the group up, but his version doesn't bother me too much. Generally, I'm used to seeing one group rescue everyone else, but here, each character here has his or her own drama and his or her own role to play. We get rare Ronon and John bonding; we also get John trying to keep everyone calm and situated--as a commander should. We see Rodney assessing the situation from the control room--laying out how many ways they're going to die, in typical Rodney fashion, but his tone is tempered and doesn't (at least IMO) become spastic. And Teyla, of course, soothing Jamus, who lies mortally injured.

As Rodney counts down the possible ways to die, John makes a very important point, one which I sincerely applaud Cuperus for.

SHEPPARD: Well, Weir will send a rescue team.
McKAY: We don't have much time left. The moon was already in a low
orbit to start with. We're beginning to skim the outer atmosphere. We're gonna slow down exponentially.
SHEPPARD: Think of a brilliant plan, Rodney! That's what you do
best. Using as little oxygen as possible. (The base shakes. Ronon groans as the vibration hurts his shoulder.)
McKAY: Should I just repeat everything I just told you?
SHEPPARD: We don't leave our people behind – did you forget that?
McKAY: No.
SHEPPARD: Good! They'll show up, and they'll get us out of here. Clear?
McKAY (not totally convinced): Yes. That's clear. McKay out.

I can honestly say this is the first time, off the top of my head, I can think of John tying his 'mantra' to Elizabeth and her role on Atlantis. It's always been implied, but here, he forcefully asserts it more than once to both Rodney and Ronon.

What's even more brilliant? Cuperus actually has her deliver.

Minor Gripe 2--When you dislocated your shoulder, you don't pop it back in by turning it sideways, which is what Ronon does with the door. Second, there IS bruising and it looks weird. Ronon's biceps are just too pretty.

Coming Up: Elizabeth sends a rescue team that actually rescues! More (believable) drama. And, we play around with the shippers a bit.

**Anuna** · 25 March 2009, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red View Post

That is the most delightful story to come along in a long time. I hope it goes on and on.

And did someone mention smut day and storage closets? An old favorite.

Hehe I like that particular old favorite. It's one of the first smuts I came across and read. It still makes me smirk naughtily.

Here's one of my favorites. Very naughty little piece, and damn hot.

**Eri13** · 25 March 2009, 08:08 AM

The Ark, Part II

The Ark isn't a terribly funny episode. We don't see a lot of John's snark here, and even Rodney's panic moments are limited. But I like it where we get it. John feels laid back and serious throughout this episode, so when he cranks out a humor moment, it's well worth it. His snark to Ronon about fighting him to the death before they burn up in the atmosphere is funny. So is Rodney's brush with death by mini space debris.

While having a story play out like it's supposed to may seem completely normal, truthfully, in television it's not. Something always goes wrong to throw a wrench into traditional plans. Our assumption, as John reassures Ronon and Rodney of Elizabeth's promise to contact them in an hour, is more than likely that it won't happen. Communications will be dead, or comm links broken, or Atlantis decides to wait.

Instead, we're treated to the opposite. Elizabeth actually calls on time. John tells her what's going on. She responds by sending a rescue vessel--which actually shows up.

How...strange!

The only thing that bothered me slightly here (looking through my Sparky glasses) was that John kept referring to Elizabeth as 'Weir.' I didn't think he called her that amongst his team anymore.

We introduce yet another fantastic element of 'The Ark'--Major Lorne. For Lorne lovers, this is a great episode. Perhaps not in terms of time--he's actually not in it too much--but in terms of character. We see him as confident, assured, and calm. He looks amazing, and acts even more so. This is Sheppard's 2IC, and we've been waiting a while to meet him.

As he and Beckett make their way onto the station, to help Rodney, who's struggling with a door, Teyla finds herself trying to reassure a panicking Jamus that his people will be alright.

I really like how Teyla is treated here. She's rational and demonstrates many levels as a character in this episode. One of her main personality traits, that of being a comforter, is really utilized, but we are also treated to her being more than just a soothing presence. She is quick thinking and intelligent in her assessment of the situation, yet not compromising in her principles. Though she does lie to soothe Jamus initially, in the end she is unable to conceal from him the fact that, more than likely, his people will die.

Teyla doesn't seem to be either comfortable or good at lying. Which is probably a good thing.

Beckett and Lorne make their way through the corridors of the station releasing McKay, John and Ronon, but are stopped short when Jamus, desperate to find a way to save the ark, takes Teyla hostage.

Like many other things in this story, the hostage situation is very interesting and different from what we're traditionally used to seeing. Jamus is a sympathetic character, one you probably both like and now, at this point, dislike. We see his point of view, as Teyla does. But we don't condone what he's doing.

John's reaction to this is also good. I don't know if Joe Flanigan was tired during this week of filming, but everything John does is terribly understated here. Like he's just tired of this entire situation. I think it fits very well with the tone of the story.

SHEPPARD: Jamus, can you hear me?
JAMUS: I can.
SHEPPARD: I want you to listen carefully. If there was time to save
the storage device, we would, you know that. We got into this mess
by offering to stick around and help you in the first place. But we
can save you – this is your life we're talkin' about, alright? So
just open up the door.
JAMUS: I have her weapon. (The base shakes again.)
SHEPPARD: This rock is gonna burn up in the atmosphere.
BECKETT: Meaning if you don't open this door, you'll die.
JAMUS: Then I will die with my people.
SHEPPARD: OK. Open up the door and let Teyla out and you *can* die
with your people. (Jamus doesn't reply. John looks round at Lorne.)
SHEPPARD: Get the torch. (Lorne moves to fetch it.) Jamus, we're gonna open up this door one way or the other.

DIG. THE. GLASSES.

The only part of this episode I kind of dislike is what Cuperus does next. As Jamus continues to hold Teyla hostage, we find out there is a rather nasty twist to the history of the ark. Rather than it being simply a society attacked on many levels by the Wraith--and perhaps completely wiped out by them--we find out that the people of the planet actually killed themselves by activating atomic weapons which destroyed both the Wraith and any people remaining on the planet. A brutal, horrible way to die, which stuns Teyla into momentary silence.

For one thing, I don't think we're in need of darkening the innocence of the people trapped in the Ark. It was an interesting, complex story already, a la Michael, where the people of Atlantis had to make a difficult choice. Now, their culpability is leveled a little by the horrendous actions taken by this civilization. I'd prefer, on a 'grown-up' level, to keep Atlantis as the dark element here. Considering the ending they end up being unwilling heroes, but I wish it had stayed as completely unwilling rather than being tempered a little by the choices of Jamus's people. If you're sensible, you understand that Atlantis's choice to abandon the 1000 people in the Ark is inhumane in a sense--save only that there is nothing else they can do without sacrificing themselves. But leave it that way--I don't need a reason to feel better for Atlantis--they're still choosing themselves over the last of this man's civilization, regardless of what the civilization did. I suppose I'd rather it be only Jamus (and Herick) as the guilty parties.

Really, he's a great stand alone character. Conflicted, with really no weaknesses in terms of the character writing. And certainly not flat.

For the high drama element thrown into the last ten minutes of the episode, Cuperus presents with a killer twist--Jamus, knowing that the Atlantis people simply will not do everything they can to save the ark, forces their hand--he traps himself and Teyla in the device. With Rodney unaware of how to figure out their technology--a nice twist on the fact that they were mocking the archaic systems earlier--John and company are left with a nasty choice. Leave, and save themselves but not Teyla, or try a risky risky maneuver that seems, at first glance, suicidal.

Coming up: More cool special effects. And ship ahoy!

**SMB_BOOKS** · 25 March 2009, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

Okay Sparkies, some of you may recall that last week I recced a fic by chiarahhue called The Dragons of Locaris. Well, she's written a little "missing scene" fic:

Gossip Guys, about what Carson and Caldwell were ~~gossiping~~ talking about while John and Elizabeth were strolling through the marketplace... including John and Elizabeth themselves! Prepare to laugh your butts off!

Happy Sparky reading!

LOVED "The Dragons of Locaris" - what a happy little fic. Love, love, love it. Haven't had a chance to read the missing scene part yet, I'm sure it will be as good as the rest.

Originally posted by Scary Kitty View Post

*snerks* Drive-by posting counts!

Thank God, because that's all I seem to be able to do right now.....

Speaking of that - AAAAHHHH - Eri13 - can't read recap right now, hope to catch it later.

Taking a week off on vacation is great, it's the coming back to work part that's hard.

**Eri13** · 25 March 2009, 08:53 AM

The Ark, Part III

As the moon continues to spin out of control in its decaying orbit, John faces the difficult choice of leaving someone behind, or saving himself and everyone else. As we know with John, 1) leaving someone behind is out of the question; and 2) he's pretty self-sacrificial for his people. Naturally, it doesn't surprise us that he chooses to save Teyla and the ark by attempting to pilot the shuttle out of the burning space station.

Removing my shipper glasses for a moment, one could argue that this is a a pretty big decision by John for just one person. John here is throwing everything on the line for Teyla in a move that is probably going to end in death. But, on the other hand, this could be just what John does, no different from Sateda, The Real World or Doppelganger--or Vegas, so I've heard. Really it's a moment that's yours to decide; and I'm certain J/T fans raise their glasses to The Ark, much as I do to The Real World.

As Rodney and the rest of the crew watch from the jumper (and can I just say that Lorne looks incredibly hot here, sorry anyone who might be reading this that doesn't think so) John goes through a briefly scary moment as the shuttle fails to disengage. And in tying in the first few seconds of this episode, our flashback has caught up to our main action, and we are back with John about to die.

Except, of course, that he doesn't.

Hot, hot, hot HOTT HOTTTTTTTTT!

The aftermath of the shuttle's brutal landing (how on Earth did John not have any broken bones?) is cheers around the jumper. It's a cute moment for this group of guys and their leader.

John, however, looks pensive and a little overwhelmed. Not surprising, but I'm actually glad we got no humor here. His expression fits the mood of this story, which has been visually fantastic and, in terms of music, enthralling. Traditional Atlantis snark would have taken away from that, I think.

I mentioned ships, and we are treated to a few here, the most obvious being the one I noted above. But we also get a little Carson/Teyla, which is sweet, and another fun Sparky moment as Elizabeth pokes at John just a little for his crazy decisions.

The ending scene between Teyla and John is a wonderfully sweet one. It's nice to see them talking like this, in a sort of intimate, quiet moment. It's very reminiscent of the Mess Hall scene in Sateda.

TEYLA: He only did what you or I would have done.
SHEPPARD: Are you kidding?! He held you hostage and almost got both
of us killed.
TEYLA: He tried to save his people – and he succeeded, through you.
SHEPPARD: That's not the reason I did it. (Teyla smiles at him.)
TEYLA: I know.
SHEPPARD: Don't go feelin' special. I'd have done it for any one of you.
TEYLA: Of course.
SHEPPARD (walking away): Except for maybe McKay.
TEYLA: Yes – I think even for Rodney.
SHEPPARD: Maybe.

The fun of being a shipper is taking scenes like this and celebrating them, so J/T fans can certainly celebrate this one.

On my end, I like it because it shows how John feels about his people. They mean more to him than his own life. As we're in the Sparky thread, for me this scene is a friendship one, with John and Teyla showing how comfortable they are with each other. John, at least, lacks that awkwardness he sometimes shares in close moments with other characters, and there isn't a ton of UST. It's kinda nice to see--perhaps it's another extension of how Joe chose to play John in this story.

The only negative in this moment is that John's statement to her doesn't hold true--as we find out during Elizabeth's comparable situation in Lifeline.

For more on my thoughts on this, Sparky arguments spoilered below...

Spoiler:

Cute ending shot--but where did everyone go? Did they leave poor Teyla alone by herself in a dark infirmary?

Overall, I was pleased to find that I really liked the Ark. As far as elements were concerned, the music and visuals were stunning. The direction was really good, and the story was strong. We saw some great character moments, even from the stand-alone characters, and we weren't treated like fools, which I always appreciate as an audience member. In general, there is little I could criticize or snark at in The Ark overall.

While it probably won't make my top 10 list just because Elizabeth IS my favorite character, so there will always be episodes I'll be more inclined to watch than this one, I will give The Ark (and Ken Cuperus) it's due and say that, like Michael, this was one of those episodes that pleasantly surprised me.

What did you all think? Is the Ark watchable for you? What parts stood out, and what criticisms do you have? Discuss!!

**Anuna** · 25 March 2009, 09:10 AM

I think it's pretty obvious what I'm going to address (and mind you, this week has been very crappy for me, so watch out. I bite.).

On the J/T note. One of the things why that ship never worked for me (besides the fact that they simply lack on screen chemistry that translates into mutual attraction) is the fact that affection for someone, if it's deep and genuine, doesn't work like an "on/off" switch. If you like someone, you like them and it shows. Period. You don't forget about that person for entire year and a half and then suddenly remeber him/her. J/T moments happen way too randomly to pass as anything more than just friendship. And their friendship works just fine as friendship - shoehorning these two into something more simply doesn't work, never did and never will.

In case of Sparky, the connection is omnipresent, even after Elizabeth being gone (thank you, JF), and that is one of the strongest arguments in favor of Sparky over pretty much any ship. While Elizabeth was on Atlantis you could see John thriwing to be better - as a professional and a person as well, and Elizabeth had a huge role to play in his change from a hot headed, impulsive soldier, to the smart and brave leader he became. After she was gone all the light was gone from john's eyes, and most of the people who watch this show have noticed it. Sheppard became dark and gloomy. Most people saw it happen, and funnily enough, it happened after Lifeline. They (sparky) may not have been intended as a ship, but that's certainly how they turned out, and IMO, it's still the strongest (het) ship in SGA.

I like that you referenced TRW moment, and IMO, I still think TRW is unique. It's not only John who put himself, and exclusively himself (and not the others) on the line, but it's also Elizabeth who kept her connection to John only, and nobody else. I think that fact shouldn't be ignored, and I think it's very important to remember that John risked only his life when, by all standards he shouldn't have. That point is further strengthened by that small, but very important moment in GitM - when he practically asked Woolsey if Elizabeth could stay.

**Scary Kitty** · 25 March 2009, 09:19 AM

Good morning, Sparkies!

Heh, today (Wednesday) is actually Angst/Drama!Day; when I wrote that it was Smut!Day, it was still Tuesday in my part of the world. Pesky time zones!

Yay for analysis of The Ark!

My comments to come later...

**Southern Red** · 25 March 2009, 09:29 AM

I liked The Ark mostly because of the John parts and any Sparky bits. I think any lack of proper characterization, e.g. John calling her Weir, can be blamed on Cuperus's relative newness as an SGA writer. Overall, he did a great job and as in CG I think he had a very good handle on John.

This is another in the list of episodes when John risks his life to save one of the members of that family he named in Sateda. Because Teyla is a member of the team/family, naturally that extends to her. The final scene tells us that in no uncertain terms. Nothing shippy about it. He cares about her. That's undeniable, but he also cares about the others. But as a Sparky shipper, I believe the deeper connection is with Elizabeth. If the intent was to show J/T ship, it was another epic failure. And now, knowing how the whole thing turned out, I'm not the least bit bothered by any intent they may have had. The reality is just the opposite.

**Killdeer** · 25 March 2009, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Anuna View Post

On the J/T note. One of the things why that ship never worked for me (besides the fact that they simply lack on screen chemistry that translates into mutual attraction) is the fact that affection for someone, if it's deep and genuine, doesn't work like an "on/off" switch. If you like someone, you like them and it shows. Period. You don't forget about that person for entire year and a half and then suddenly remeber him/her. J/T moments happen way too randomly to pass as anything more than just friendship. And their friendship works just fine as friendship - shoehorning these two into something more simply doesn't work, never did and never will.

I agree. While there is a lot about the ark that I enjoy, and Eri touched on most of it (Eri, have I mentioned how much I love your reviews?), there are some things about it that annoy me. The whole situation with John and Teyla and the ark felt very contrived to me. First, it's very hard for me to believe that Teyla, a trained warrior, could not have disarmed and subdued an old man who could barely stay on his feet. Of course, if that had happened we wouldn't have had our "dramatic moment", but it doesn't work for me. I get very irritated when Teyla is placed into the damsel-in-distress role, because she should be anything but.

Secondly, John should have suffered much more trauma from the crash than he did. That last infirmary scene should have been reversed - there really was no reason for Teyla to be harmed, and every reason in the world for John to be. I'm still not sure why they played it this way. Maybe the hero checking on the damsel again, I don't know. But it seems like it would have had the same effect with John being the one in the bed and Teyla coming to check on him. And it would have made MUCH more sense, IMO.

As far as the J/T thing, it didn't read that way to me, although I can see how J/T shippers might read it that way. But.... see, here's another thing that gets me about the whole J/T thing. Brad Wright made a comment at the last comic-con when asked about J/T - something about "he's saved this woman's life so many times." Well, IMO, that's not a great basis for a relationship, unless you're Superman and Lois Lane.

John saves everyone's life. He risked nanite infection for Elizabeth (I agree that TRW was a very Sparky episode). He went to the bottom of the ocean for Rodney. He chased Ronon across the galaxy in Sateda. John does crazy things for his people. And I think he would have made the same choice had it been Ronon or Rodney or probably even Lorne in that box. If the writers wanted to demonstrate that John had some affection for Teyla above and beyond his feelings for the rest of his team, then they needed to consistently have him treating her differently, reacting to her differently. But that never happened, throughout the entire series. *shrugs* Just my opinion.

**Anuna** · 25 March 2009, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Killdeer View Post

I agree. While there is a lot about the ark that I enjoy, and Eri touched on most of it (Eri, have I mentioned how much I love your reviews?), there are some things about it that annoy me. The whole situation with John and Teyla and the ark felt very contrived to me. First, it's very hard for me to believe that Teyla, a trained warrior, could not have disarmed and subdued an old man who could barely stay on his feet. Of course, if that had happened we wouldn't have had our "dramatic moment", but it doesn't work for me. I get very irritated when Teyla is placed into the damsel-in-distress role, because she should be anything but.

Secondly, John should have suffered much more trauma from the crash than he did. That last infirmary scene should have been reversed - there really was no reason for Teyla to be harmed, and every reason in the world for John to be. I'm still not sure why they played it this way. Maybe the hero checking on the damsel again, I don't know. But it seems like it would have had the same effect with John being the one in the bed and Teyla coming to check on him. And it would have made MUCH more sense, IMO.

As far as the J/T thing, it didn't read that way to me, although I can see how J/T shippers might read it that way. But.... see, here's another thing that gets me about the whole J/T thing. Brad Wright made a comment at the last comic-con when asked about J/T - something about "he's saved this woman's life so many times." Well, IMO, that's not a great basis for a relationship, unless you're Superman and Lois Lane.

John saves everyone's life. He risked nanite infection for Elizabeth (I agree that TRW was a very Sparky episode). He went to the bottom of the ocean for Rodney. He chased Ronon across the galaxy in Sateda. John does crazy things for his people. And I think he would have made the same choice had it been Ronon or Rodney or probably even Lorne in that box. If the writers wanted to demonstrate that John had some affection for Teyla above and beyond his feelings for the rest of his team, then they needed to consistently have him treating her differently, reacting to her differently. But that never happened, throughout the entire series. *shrugs* Just my opinion.

And it makes more sense than the writing we've been treated lately. (there's one thing about lacky writing. It provides so much good material for ship writers).

Few things to sum this up:

A) Teyla as damsel in distress is annoying, way too old and doesn't work, especially when you keep telling us she is a strong female character. Look what Elizabeth does in Siege 2 when she goes to the Genii. That's what a strong female character does. (more on strong female characters - do check out "Ever after" with Drew Barrymore. Her Cinderella is way stronger than how some writers tend to portray Teyla, which is infinitely sad)

B) Using John to point out how Teyla is a damsel in distress and needs some sort of special heroic attention by the hero doesn't work, because it undermines already lacking attempts to portray her as a strong warrior. Writers, pick your cliche and stop feeding us with double bind messages.

C) John is not a super hero

D) by BW's definition of - what should that be, a special kind of relationship? - John is probably in relationship with every significant character from the show, including Todd. (didn't John save him at least once?)

E) As I said before, affection, deep caring and strong bonds between people don't work as on and off switchs.

F) the person John has the strongest connection with is Elizabeth. The person Elizabeth has the strongest connection with is John. You might have planned it differently, but, sorry guys, that's what you actually have delivered on screen. You can weep all you want now. Too late.

**Southern Red** · 25 March 2009, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by Killdeer View Post

I agree. While there is a lot about the ark that I enjoy, and Eri touched on most of it (Eri, have I mentioned how much I love your reviews?), there are some things about it that annoy me. The whole situation with John and Teyla and the ark felt very contrived to me. First, it's very hard for me to believe that Teyla, a trained warrior, could not have disarmed and subdued an old man who could barely stay on his feet. Of course, if that had happened we wouldn't have had our "dramatic moment", but it doesn't work for me. I get very irritated when Teyla is placed into the damsel-in-distress role, because she should be anything but.

Secondly, John should have suffered much more trauma from the crash than he did. That last infirmary scene should have been reversed - there really was no reason for Teyla to be harmed, and every reason in the world for John to be. I'm still not sure why they played it this way. Maybe the hero checking on the damsel again, I don't know. But it seems like it would have had the same effect with John being the one in the bed and Teyla coming to check on him. And it would have made MUCH more sense, IMO.

As far as the J/T thing, it didn't read that way to me, although I can see how J/T shippers might read it that way. But.... see, here's another thing that gets me about the whole J/T thing. Brad Wright made a comment at the last comic-con when asked about J/T - something about "he's saved this woman's life so many times." Well, IMO, that's not a great basis for a relationship, unless you're Superman and Lois Lane.

John saves everyone's life. He risked nanite infection for Elizabeth (I agree that TRW was a very Sparky episode). He went to the bottom of the ocean for Rodney. He chased Ronon across the galaxy in Sateda. John does crazy things for his people. And I think he would have made the same choice had it been Ronon or Rodney or probably even Lorne in that box. If the writers wanted to demonstrate that John had some affection for Teyla above and beyond his feelings for the rest of his team, then they needed to consistently have him treating her differently, reacting to her differently. But that never happened, throughout the entire series. *shrugs* Just my opinion.

Your opinion is very valid and perhaps carries just a little more weight because you are not strictly a shipper. As I mentioned earlier, I have been re-reading the early pages of this thread where much the same sentiment is expressed. The writing from day one has been consistently all over the page when it comes to J/T. It's like they forgot about it for episode after episode and then *pictures writers hitting themselves on the head* picked it up again for a brief scene or two. Sparky, on the other hand, was consistently written the same. Not romantic, per se, but as a slowly growing and deepening friendship. And even in S5 after she was long gone, it continued in John's change of demeanor. That's the primary reason that I am sort of satisfied with how it turned out.

**Eri13** · 25 March 2009, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Killdeer View Post

I agree. While there is a lot about the ark that I enjoy, and Eri touched on most of it (Eri, have I mentioned how much I love your reviews?), there are some things about it that annoy me. The whole situation with John and Teyla and the ark felt very contrived to me. First, it's very hard for me to believe that Teyla, a trained warrior, could not have disarmed and subdued an old man who could barely stay on his feet. Of course, if that had happened we wouldn't have had our "dramatic moment", but it doesn't work for me. I get very irritated when Teyla is placed into the damsel-in-distress role, because she should be anything but.

Secondly, John should have suffered much more trauma from the crash than he did. That last infirmary scene should have been reversed - there really was no reason for Teyla to be harmed, and every reason in the world for John to be. I'm still not sure why they played it this way. Maybe the hero checking on the damsel again, I don't know. But it seems like it would have had the same effect with John being the one in the bed and Teyla coming to check on him. And it would have made MUCH more sense, IMO.

As far as the J/T thing, it didn't read that way to me, although I can see how J/T shippers might read it that way. But.... see, here's another thing that gets me about the whole J/T thing. Brad Wright made a comment at the last comic-con when asked about J/T - something about "he's saved this woman's life so many times." Well, IMO, that's not a great basis for a relationship, unless you're Superman and Lois Lane.

John saves everyone's life. He risked nanite infection for Elizabeth (I agree that TRW was a very Sparky episode). He went to the bottom of the ocean for Rodney. He chased Ronon across the galaxy in Sateda. John does crazy things for his people. And I think he would have made the same choice had it been Ronon or Rodney or probably even Lorne in that box. If the writers wanted to demonstrate that John had some affection for Teyla above and beyond his feelings for the rest of his team, then they needed to consistently have him treating her differently, reacting to her differently. But that never happened, throughout the entire series. *shrugs* Just my opinion.

Thanks! I always love hearing your opinions on the stories.

What you pointed out is why I prefer Sparky. I saw more consistency. While I won't deny there are gems for the J/T ship as far as episodes, for me, personally I just never felt the consistency as with J/E, or even John's relationship with Rodney or Ronon/Teyla. A big part of me wants to chalk it up to the writers being boys and, like BW, have that 'he saves her all the time, he must love her--what else do we have to show!' mentality, but who knows? For me, as a viewer, I needed to see more stuff like the end scene here placed in more of the Teyla-centric episodes, like Michael or The Gift. Or even one shot scenes in general stuff. Ronon gets most of that, which is probably why I saw that relationship a little more easily as well.

And ITA on John's injuries, too. How in the world was he able to walk around?

**Scary Kitty** · 25 March 2009, 10:38 AM

The Ark!

I rather liked this one. Though we didn't see much of Elizabeth or Atlantis, it was a good, solid team episode with some great supporting characters, both new and recurring (yay, Lorne!). Everyone had an important role to play in the story (especially Teyla), and the story was action-packed without seeming rushed and based on a very intriguing premise. An added plus for me was that Jamus and Herick's civilization was one of those that was far more advanced than most of the worlds we've seen in Pegasus; like Sateda, the Wraith attempted to wipe the potential threat out... unlike Sateda, these guys took the Wraith with them.

It's very morbid, but, given the kind of threat the Wraith pose, it's also a very believable scenario.