Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

I haven't seen seasons 3 and 4 . So, I can't really comment on how dark and more self-contrained John became, but I have been roaming across the Gateworld forums and I've been surprised by how many posters agree with this assessment. There are also a good number of posts complaining about the loss of Weir and how it took something away from the show, almost as if it was the beginning of the end.

Very dark and very cranky. lol But yeah, I've noticed some coming over to the light side who never saw it before. Better late than never, but it sure is frustrating.

JM is writing the movie. Ugh so I don't expect anything. I just need consistent distant, sad Shep and I'm good.

I don't expect much either. But I doubt Shep will suddenly start skipping through the halls.

I was just over on the Vegas thread. Some are still on the Ronon/Teyla got left out argument but some good John points are coming up. And I got to show off my new sig. *snickers*

[Scary Kitty]

RCC seems to see the lost potential. I wonder if they would ask Torri to come back to reprise her role. Imagine the uptick in the sales of the DVD if the fanbase for Elizabeth and Torri came back in full. It's interesting if the studio hasn't signed anyone yet. Maybe, they are still figuring out what story they want to tell.

Yeah, RP is right, it's not going to happen, at least not for the first movie. But if this first SGA movie does well, then perhaps the ones who can do a good Weir story, like Carl Binder, and those who are open to fixing past mistakes, as RCC appears to be, might be able to push for making things right with Torri and Weir. So we've just got to keep pushing for seeing Weir, and Torri as Weir, in the future.

Sparkies never say surrender.

[Scary Kitty]

Very dark and very cranky. lol But yeah, I've noticed some coming over to the light side who never saw it before. Better late than never, but it sure is frustrating.

Frustrating, indeed. At least they are out there and making themselves known.

I don't expect much either. But I doubt Shep will suddenly start skipping through the halls.

Especially when JM himself seemed to like dark!Sheppard on his blog.

I was just over on the Vegas thread. Some are still on the Ronon/Teyla got left out argument but some good John points are coming up. And I got to show off my new sig. *snickers*

*joins in the snickering*

[Ruined_puzzle]

I don't expect much either. But I doubt Shep will suddenly start skipping through the halls.

I was just over on the Vegas thread. Some are still on the Ronon/Teyla got left out argument but some good John points are coming up. And I got to show off my new sig. *snickers*

I just don't think he will see s1-s3 John because he doesn't have Elizabeth to play off anymore. I've said this before but through Elizabeth we saw the happy/flirty John more than with any other character. He doesn't have that interaction anymore so it does feel like he is sadder more serious. John and Elizabeth played off each other so well and through their interactions we saw different parts of them.

The Ronon/Teyla thing is making me all GRRR. It's an AU peeps, just get over it. At least they are still part of the cast.

[Southern Red]

I just don't think he will see s1-s3 John because he doesn't have Elizabeth to play off anymore. I've said this before but through Elizabeth we saw the happy/flirty John more than with any other character. He doesn't have that interaction anymore so it does feel like he is sadder more serious. John and Elizabeth played off each other so well and through their interactions we saw different parts of them.

The Ronon/Teyla thing is making me all GRRR. It's an AU peeps, just get over it. At least they are still part of the cast.

I know. I can see stating your objection but jeesh. Why you'd think their favorite character was DEAD.

Good points on John showing his light side more with her. We may need to make a list. Even in S4-5 when he was playing he just seemed to be doing it as a distraction.

Spoiler:

Toy cars with Rodney in Prodigal. Uh...did he play any other time? Huh?

Poor sad John. No golf. Even the beer drinking was serious. The boy needs a ferris wheel ride.

[Reiko]

Damn, now I'm going to have "Ring of Fire" stuck in my head all day.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that of the four PTW (Wright, Cooper, Mallozzi and Mullie) that RCC may end up being the first one to publicly admit that they screwed up with Weir (and Carson)?

Just maybe so. I know

Spoiler:

(spoilered for anti-tptpb sentiment) Mallozzi won't because I already asked him twice, the first on his blog got no response and then the second which was featured as the closing question on an online TV Guide interview (in which they lumped both my Elizabeth/any regrets questions together) he said that he's very happy with the way things are going and has no regrets so far. (I think this was halfway in s5's prduction.)

Someone's gonna admit it someday. *shrug*

[Lythisrose]

Damn, now I'm going to have "Ring of Fire" stuck in my head all day.



Just maybe so. I know

Spoiler:

(spoilered for anti-tptpb sentiment) Mallozzi won't because I already asked him twice, the first on his blog got no response and then the second which was featured as the closing question on an online TV Guide interview (in which they lumped both my Elizabeth/any regrets questions together) he said that he's very happy with the way things are going and has no regrets so far. (I think this was halfway in s5's prduction.)

Someone's gonna admit it someday. *shrug*

I don't know all the history behind the decisions, but

Spoiler:

didn't Weir get written out/aside when M and M took over as show runners? Was the original crew of Atlantis the creation of Wright and Cooper - they may have regretted the fact that she was sidelined, but at that point, gone with the current runners. I have a feeling the network plays a big part in what happens, character addition/subtraction-wise, and it's up to strong producers to fight for what they believe in in order to keep someone in or out. (how else to explain McKeller?)

[Falcon Horus]

The Ronon/Teyla thing is making me all GRRR. It's an AU peeps, just get over it. At least they are still part of the cast.

Even with the thing being AU - they just as might not be members of the cast. It's not like it matters. Some people are quite frustrated over that. Don't dismiss it because it's a big deal to some, including me.

[Ruined_puzzle]

Even with the thing being AU - they just as might not be members of the cast. It's not like it matters. Some people are quite frustrated over that. Don't dismiss it because it's a big deal to some, including me.

I'm only speaking of Vegas. Vegas was a John centered AU episode. I would have been okay with no one but John being in the episode. That would have been different and probably more interesting. From what I hear there has also been severe lack of John in s5 but not to the extend that people are saying that Ronon and Teyla have been missing. The thing is that I don't mind when main characters aren't in certain episodes because sometimes they are not needed. The thing is to make the episodes they are in count but SGA lacks that and basically everything.

[Reiko]

I don't know all the history behind the decisions, but

Spoiler:

didn't Weir get written out/aside when M and M took over as show runners? Was the original crew of Atlantis the creation of Wright and Cooper - they may have regretted the fact that she was sidelined, but at that point, gone with the current runners. I have a feeling the network plays a big part in what happens, character addition/subtraction-wise, and it's up to strong producers to fight for what they believe in in order to keep someone in or out. (how else to explain McKeller?)

I'll say what I (think!) I know. If anyone knows different -- shout it out.

Spoiler:

Okay, this is very tangled, so I'm trying to do my best to explain here. It was M&M's descision to get rid of Elizabeth for season four. Without getting into the Sam Carter debacle too much, SG1 had been cancelled that year so there's much speculation as to the removal of Weir being connected to Carter. TPTB says there isn't. Me? I think it definately plays in. TPTB have always wanted to draw in Sg1 viewers.

However, when Elizabeth was tossed out, Wright (who was known as the defnder of her character) nor Cooper did anything to stop it. It seemed, at that point, they were fine with the descision and the way things were headed over there.

I don't know what the network wants, but there was a recent release on JM's blog or whatnot saying that they wanted more Keller in EATG, though I'm fuzzy on those details.

And we're back to the producers. Oddly enough, they all think the same and generally tend to agree on things but they all like to go in different directions and write characters in different ways and make everything extrmely episodic.

In short, want to know who's responsible for what?

Mallozzi and Mullie: Getting rid of Elizabeth for s4, bringing in Sam Carter.
Gero: He's pretty much the master when it comes to Keller and McKeller, to answer your end statement.

Sorry for the mispellings. New keyboard.

Oh, and I'm dl'ing Vegas right now. Yay.

[Falcon Horus]

I'm only speaking of Vegas. Vegas was a John centered AU episode. I would have been okay with no one but John being in the episode. That would have been different and probably more interesting. From what I hear there has also been severe lack of John in s5 but not to the extend that people are saying that Ronon and Teyla have been missing. The thing is that I don't mind when main characters aren't in certain episodes because sometimes they are not needed. The thing is to make the episodes they are in count but SGA lacks that and basically everything.

Trust me when I say that John is still in every episode present, while the same can't be said for any of the other so-called main characters, who's own episodes aren't even about them. I think the only lucky people in the fandom are those that love John and Rodney, then follow those that think highly of Keller, then Woolsey. Ronon, Teyla and Beckett far behind. And I have the frakkin' proof sittin' on my harddrive.

I don't care whether Vegas is AU or not. They managed to stuck a ...

Spoiler:

wraith in there. Why not something for either Teyla or Ronon?

Personally, I'm already happy with a 2-second cameo.

[Ruined_puzzle]

Trust me when I say that John is still in every episode present, while the same can't be said for any of the other so-called main characters, who's own episodes aren't even about them. I think the only lucky people in the fandom are those that love John and Rodney, then follow those that think highly of Keller, then Woolsey. Ronon, Teyla and Beckett far behind. And I have the frakkin' proof sittin' on my harddrive.

I don't care whether Vegas is AU or not. They managed to stuck a ...

Spoiler:

wraith in there. Why not something for either Teyla or Ronon?

Personally, I'm already happy with a 2-second cameo.

I'm all about quality vs quantity. lol.

John is in every episode probably because JF probably has a contract that says he has to be in every episode, just like DH probably has the same contract and TH probably had the same one. I think John was like in a minute of Brainstorm, I don't think they would have bothered to show him if they didn't have contract saying how many episodes he has to be in.

Spoiler:

The storyline had to do with the wraith though so it made sense for it to be there or as much sense as their science makes sense to me.

But wouldn't a cameo would have been pointless. Isn't that exactly what people are complaining about? that it's useless and they are just wallpaper?

I don't know for Ronon and Teyla to be in the episode it would have had to been longer, they would have had to explain more things. The whole point of the episode was the unanswered questions, that you could make up your mind about things that were left unsaid. To me for once it makes sense why they weren't there.

The rest of the episodes well TPTB just don't care to write Ronon and Teyla as anything more than background. That is their formula, they are comfortable with writing familiar characters. They really have no idea what to do with them.


All I'm saying is that in this episode it made sense for them not to be in it.

[Reiko]

^ Well, my main issue isn't that Teyla and Ronon aren't in Vegas. The bigger problem at hand is that they aren't in most of the freaking rest of the season.

I like John and Rodney but McKeller of all things has had too much time this season. (Even with a whole episode devoted to them.)

Perosnally, I think in Brain Storm Rodney should have taken Teyla as a friend.

[Flowerbud]

I don't know all the history behind the decisions, but

Spoiler:

didn't Weir get written out/aside when M and M took over as show runners? Was the original crew of Atlantis the creation of Wright and Cooper - they may have regretted the fact that she was sidelined, but at that point, gone with the current runners. I have a feeling the network plays a big part in what happens, character addition/subtraction-wise, and it's up to strong producers to fight for what they believe in in order to keep someone in or out. (how else to explain McKeller?)

Do you know if it was the network or M&M that got rid of Weir? Somehow, it seems like micromanaging from a network like SciFi. Did they say shake things up and M&M came with their boneheaded idea. I also was wondering if the ratings increased through Season 4

[Reiko]

Do you know if it was the network or M&M that got rid of Weir? Somehow, it seems like micromanaging from a network like SciFi. Did they say shake things up and M&M came with their boneheaded idea.

I thought shake things up was just Sunday ... but I could be wrong.

I also was wondering if the ratings increased through Season 4

It didn't, I don't know why people are saying it did.