Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Shep]

...The pilot episode had problems. Torri seemed nervous and stiff, not the more relaxed performer we see today. The whole video thing with Simon was strange. And nothing was done to make her sympathetic to the audience......

...I'm not saying Elizabeth needed to strip (but hey, it's a thought. , just a short, well thought out moment where the audience is introduced to Elizabeth *the human being*, someone who's just like us. That never happened. It was just, "Elizabeth the noble". Then there was the unfortunate choice to go straight to heavy drama and yelling....

...The episode Before I Sleep really helped humanize Elizabeth, but it took how long into the season to do that? When that process should have started all the way back in the pilot episode? Talk about frustrating!)...

My personal problem with the character was that the actress orginally chosen set the character so.very.well. in the SG-1 arcs, and while Torri is a good actress, it didn't feel the same until the last half of Season 1 and now, finally, in Season 2, I see the character truly developing. So it was a combination, for me, of getting used to Torri in the role, and the character being given depth finally.

[macktheknife]

OT : Jessica Steen has'nt had a good run in pilots and getting into a series full time, she got ditched on Stargate, NCIS and I think Kojak..

[manybleemsago]

Don't know what the unfortunate scene with Kavanaugh is and I'd love for you to fill me in.

-Bama

"The Unfortunate Scene With Kavanaugh" was in 38 minutes, where they are racing to save Major Sheppard and the shuttle crew who are trapped midway through the stargate. Elizabeth only has x amount of time and is under huge pressure because of it. So she meets with the scientists and one of them - Kavanaugh - starts making an ass out of himself and somehow makes what's happening all about *him*. Now, since Elizabeth is a diplomat, you would think she would do the diplomatic thing. But what happens is, she busts Kavanaugh's b***s in front of everybody (BAD managerial move), wastes time doing it, and then, when he chases her down in the hallway to take it up with her again, she continues to waste precious time arguing with him. All she had to do (if she was being logical) was to not go after Kavanaugh in the first place, or, just admit to him that he has a point and deflect the situation to be dealt with at another time.

So by choosing to go the more dramatic route, they made Elizabeth look inconsistent, illogical, and more than a little power corrupted.

[manybleemsago]

I'm glad that my 'guess' on TPTB problem with the character is somewhat in the ballpark. I've seen the problem on series before. And even with Scully -who it seems was better fleshed out to begin with- we still witnessed a lot, lot of changes in her as the actress and the writers get a better feel for her. The Scully from season one was not the same woman that sat in that chair in the season nine finale by a long-shot. So, as long as the character is improving and evolving to the better, I'll hold no grudges. Perhaps it is better that I'm just now seeing a lot of Atlantis and learning about the characters from *this* point forward. All I know is that Elizabeth and her growing and unique relationship with John fascinates me the more I see of it.

-Bama

You are lucky to be watching it now, because we are seeing the characters finally settle in and find their stride. Season 1 for me was a bumpy ride, with lots of missteps and bad timing. But I go with it as long as there is improvement, fixing the things that need to be fixed, and building on what is working (the chemistry between Elizabeth and John and the intellectual challenge they represent to each other - and us). I know that for a lot of shows there's change and growth, and it's pretty rare when a show hits their stride right out of the box.

[Bama]

"The Unfortunate Scene With Kavanaugh" was in 38 minutes, where they are racing to save Major Sheppard and the shuttle crew who are trapped midway through the stargate. Elizabeth only has x amount of time and is under huge pressure because of it. So she meets with the scientists and one of them - Kavanaugh - starts making an ass out of himself and somehow makes what's happening all about *him*. Now, since Elizabeth is a diplomat, you would think she would do the diplomatic thing. But what happens is, she busts Kavanaugh's b***s in front of everybody (BAD managerial move), wastes time doing it, and then, when he chases her down in the hallway to take it up with her again, she continues to waste precious time arguing with him. All she had to do (if she was being logical) was to not go after Kavanaugh in the first place, or, just admit to him that he has a point and deflect the situation to be dealt with at another time.

So by choosing to go the more dramatic route, they made Elizabeth look inconsistent, illogical, and more than a little power corrupted.

I hate it when writers do that crap w/a character. All we, the audience is left to do if we refuse to accept out of character stupidity in her, is chalk it up to a bad case of PMS. : ( Characterization should *never* be exploited or abused for dramatic purposes.

That absolutely sounds nothing like the Elizabeth I'm coming to know the latter part of season one or the beginning of season three. The E-woman I see is confident in herself yet humble enough to ask opinions of others. She has respect and admiration and loving feelings for her entire crew and especially for her self-chosen military commander. She is a woman who wants to live life instead of just watching it. She wants her life to stand for something that matters and be important for the cause of good in the universe. She is open to experiences and refuses to back down from a personal situation that is trying. I see a need in her; a void that isn't completely filled. I see a woman who wants to be a woman in every sense but not at the expense of her ideals. I see someone who has an open heart and kindness in her eyes.

That is what I see and really dig about her and honestly, until I get to know her even better this season, I think it probably better to watch the first season experimental Elizabeth a little later.

Thank you again for your wonderful thoughts and explainations. Your patience with me is greatly appreciated.

; ) -B-woman

[manybleemsago]

My personal problem with the character was that the actress orginally chosen set the character so.very.well. in the SG-1 arcs, and while Torri is a good actress, it didn't feel the same until the last half of Season 1 and now, finally, in Season 2, I see the character truly developing. So it was a combination, for me, of getting used to Torri in the role, and the character being given depth finally.

I thought Jessica Steen was really good. I've always liked that actress, and my take on her is that she's very savvy after years of playing heavily dramatic roles. Her scene where she attempts a lame joke with O'Neill is an example of trying to humanize a character immediately, imo.

I do hope for Jessica's sake that she finally gets that one special role. I've been a fan of hers since she was on Captain Power (God help me.) and it would be great to see her succeed in that way.

[manybleemsago]

I hate it when writers do that crap w/a character. All we, the audience is left to do if we refuse to accept out of character stupidity in her, is chalk it up to a bad case of PMS. : ( Characterization should *never* be exploited or abused for dramatic purposes.

That absolutely sounds nothing like the Elizabeth I'm coming to know the latter part of season one or the beginning of season three. The E-woman I see is confident in herself yet humble enough to ask opinions of others. She has respect and admiration and loving feelings for her entire crew and especially for her self-chosen military commander. She is a woman who wants to live life instead of just watching it. She wants her life to stand for something that matters and be important for the cause of good in the universe. She is open to experiences and refuses to back down from a personal situation that is trying. I see a need in her; a void that isn't completely filled. I see a woman who wants to be a woman in every sense but not at the expense of her ideals. I see someone who has an open heart and kindness in her eyes.

That is what I see and really dig about her and honestly, until I get to know her even better this season, I think it probably better to watch the first season experimental Elizabeth a little later.

Thank you again for your wonderful thoughts and explainations. Your patience with me is greatly appreciated.

; ) -B-woman

Bama, it's a privelege.

I was going to yap some more, but now I'm fading. I'll see you tomorrow.

[Bama]

Also in the tower

Spoiler:

Liz goes off-world!!! again!! that's what, three this season? not THAT much but a big jump from last season.

Gosh almighty it is good to read that! Fits right in with

Spoiler:

that entire character analysis we got in 'Intruder' too where she wants to dive right into the work and she is obviously loving every bit of it so dang much. I love to see her continuing to expand her horizons and push herself. YAY for character continuity! (And yay for even more ship ops.

[Bama]

Bama, it's a privelege.

I was going to yap some more, but now I'm fading. I'll see you tomorrow.

Yeah, I'm supposed to be studying for some administrative boards I've got upcoming...but you can see I spend more time yapping whenever the computer is on this forum. ; ) Thanks again. I'll bombard you with more questions later.

-B

[Easter Lily]

It doesn't really bother me that much that Weir has had to work hard in her first year... making mistakes and learning from them... when you consider that not many people visit not-so-neighbouring galaxies everyday and fight sun deprived people suckers. I would find it much more unbelievable if she made the right decision all the time and Sheppard said, "Yes, sir, yes, m'am" to all of her orders. Capable or not, she's a civllian thrown into a military situation, if she didn't fumble around, I'd be really surprised. I've decided that I prefer the flawed Weir than the super computer Sam... at least she's a character I can relate to.

That said, Weir could do with more development... I'm happy with the direction they're taking at present. So far, so good...

[Bama]

Thanks for filling me in. I taped the episode, but haven't had a chance to go back and watch it closely.

Regarding Duet--

Spoiler:

Perhaps it will be like watching a romantic comedy (if it could be with McKay) that will give them a chance to smile at each other.

I'd settle for that.

Same thought crossed my (dirty) mind. ; )

Spoiler:

I love it when they share a mutual smile...and you know...a semi-blush or bit of embarrassment at being in the presence of such exuberant er...sexual affection might not be a bad thing either.

Good grief. Somebody hand me a pen already while this is fresh on my brain!

; ) -B

[Bama]

OMG that

Spoiler:

Major Lorne (sp) is hot-acious in this pic!

Heck yeah. The Major is one little yummy piece of manhood himself. Perhaps if John is stupid enough to let E-woman get away, she can er...double promote the Major. ; ) E-woman and her little toy soldiers. LOL!

-B

[Bama]

It doesn't really bother me that much that Weir has had to work hard in her first year... making mistakes and learning from them... when you consider that not many people visit not-so-neighbouring galaxies everyday and fight sun deprived people suckers. I would find it much more unbelievable if she made the right decision all the time and Sheppard said, "Yes, sir, yes, m'am" to all of her orders. Capable or not, she's a civllian thrown into a military situation, if she didn't fumble around, I'd be really surprised.



Some good thoughts...anyone in the situation would fumble and piss in the wind a bit.


I've decided that I prefer the flawed Weir than the super computer Sam... at least she's a character I can relate to.


That is exactly what my feeble mind was trying to get to my keyboard earlier. I like sam a lot but I can *so* relate to in charge/bossy Elizabeth a little better. We women all want to be the lead b!tch. *grin*

That said, Weir could do with more development... I'm happy with the direction they're taking at present. So far, so good...

Having said that, I'm off to snooze world. I'm getting nothing done constructively at my desk tonight.

-Bama ; )

[SallyLizzie]

Welcome SouthernRed and Pellmelody!

Angsty fic rec ~ Not Easy

Oooo Athena, you tease! Was thinking another Langford addition was due.
Seems to have been ages since I've read anything there (*Makes note to go back and re-read*) Tehe, ''Aunty Elizabeth''

[astronomicalchick]

Qwirky also has another great Atlantis fiction site at http://sg-atlantis.org/fanfics/

And she is a good sort, Qwirky is.

Have we met before?

Mint?