Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Anuna]

Oh you want to play hard, eh?

Spoiler:

She sat on the edge of his bed, cradling the plastic box in her hands. Offering a smile she looked up at him. “Thank you,” her expression was earnest, and brought back the unpleasant feeling he was trying to wash out taking a shower half an hour earlier. Rodney’s comments said during the dinner still stung his ears.

“For what?” he asked, sitting near her.

She looked at him a moment before answering, and he noticed an amused smile and how her eyes traveled up and down his persona.

“For being there,” she looked at the guitar. “For coming.” She added a sincere smile.

His heart took a dive toward his feet. Instead of having a fight with Rodney and leaving, he should have played for her, just like he promised to do, but this time Rodney’s comments hit too close to home, and he let himself get offended.

Well, because what Rodney said was true. Sometimes you displace what’s left of your brain in your pants, especially if some alien cheerleader sticks her cleavage into your face!

“I forgot to get you a present,” he mumbled, trying not to think about cleavages. The way Elizabeth’s shirt clung at her small, but probably beautifully shaped breasts didn’t help.

“John,” she paused, rolling her eyes and smiling at him. “I’m not five years old any more. My heart won’t break if I don’t get presents. You were there, that is what matters.”

He knew what she was saying was true, and because of that the fact that of forgetting about her birthday – and it was on the same day they spent on that planet – was all the worse.

“I was at my best, really,” he quipped making her frown. Good job Sheppard. Now make her upset after she came to bring your damn guitar back.

Her expression fell a little bit and she looked at her lap before returning her eyes to him. To his surprise there was a twinkle of mischief, but only for a second.

“No, it’s not your fault. Rodney usually opens the mouth and enters the foot,” she said, trying to lighten up the tone, but his shoulders slumped nevertheless. “Or rather forgets the foot part.”

“Sometimes even a foot isn’t enough to stop him. Anyway…. He was right.”


“About what?” she asked arching her eyebrows at him, her tone nearing amusement. It was good seeing her relaxed. He couldn’t pull himself out of the crappy mood he was in, but it seemed she refused to let him ruin her evening. Which was good. “It wasn’t right to insult you. It’s not the first mission gone badly,” she said and he almost couldn’t believe his ears. “It’s not the first time you made a mistake either and I have no doubt in my mind you’ll find a way to get yourself in trouble again,” she added making a point that she didn’t consider him completely innocent, but luckily, she didn’t hate him either. “John, you made a mistake and but you noticed it on time,” she added firmly and he let his eyes fall onto his hands.

“It’s a mistake I shouldn’t have made,” he added stubbornly and sighed.

“Well technically, you didn’t make it,” she added with a grin on his expense and he swallowed his wounded pride. Mara came very close to seducing him, but now, when he thought back he failed to remember what was so appealing about her. “Or did you get the girl after all?” she asked in a tone he didn’t hear her use very often, but usually he loved to be teased by her. Now wasn’t the case, but he did deserve to be teased.

John had always liked the women, and they liked him back. He was known as a flirty person. There were one night stands in his past, but he never considered himself a person who used the smaller head for thinking. Well at least not on duty. That person with Mara wasn’t him, or at least he wanted to believe that; and ever since they got back John was trying to justify his own behavior to himself, without much success.

“No I didn’t. I was a good guy and… well, didn’t let her cut my head off… the bigger one I mean,” he said and when she started laughing he realized he made his thoughts audible. Oh crap. “Well I could enter my foot now too.”

Elizabeth gave a hearty laugh. “No. That would ruin your mouth. What would the alien girls say then?”

Take that!

[Wormhole]

I'm gonna run out of teasers soon .

Spoiler:

Rodney looked nervous as he took a peek down the gap and shouted above the noise ****. “I can’t!”

“It’s just a run and jump McKay, you’ll be fine.”

“I’m not very good with heights.”

.

[Anuna]

Hehe, I won't run out of teasers. So better post that chapter soon.

[Wormhole]

You want an evil teaser... How about this one .

Spoiler:

Elizabeth suddenly felt a sharp stab of pain in her side and inhaled deeply to try and catch her breath; the minute the object used was removed. She felt herself falling to the ground as Kolya released his hold on her.

[Anuna]

*drums fingers on her desk*

[Wormhole]

*drums fingers on her desk*

*Gotcha.*

*runs*

[SMB_BOOKS]

Hello All!

I'm still here. I am reading all the episode discussions and enjoying every single minute of it. Sorry I haven't jumped in to add much to the discussion, you all cover the eps so well, it's hard to figure out something new to add!

Here's another photo to go along with the quote about looking in the same direction.....

Spoiler:

J - Does it ever amaze you how perceptive those Sparkies are?
E - Nope. They know a sure thing when they see it.
J - We ROCK!
E - Yes we do. Now quit groping my a** or I'll have to jump you right here in the control room.
J - Well wouldn't that be a shame?? (evil grin)
Elizabeth turns and gives him the killer eyebrow as if to promise retribution later.

[Eri13]

Okay...onto one of my all-time favorite season finales of any show--great cliffhanger, great moments!

The Siege, Part II

We begin with the group realizing that despite the sacrifice of Peter Grodin *GRRR* there is nothing much they can do to save the city now. Elizabeth and John begin their first of a number of meaningful looks as they set the self-destruct to take the city.







Of course, one of the greatest twists early in this episode is the arrival of Colonel Everett--I got about as excited as the Atlantis crew that he and his team had arrived. And despite the fact that he's standard military issue and treats Elizabeth and the others rather obnoxiously, of all the military colonels who've attempted to sideswipe her authority, I definitely liked him the best. He seemed to have a muted respect for what she'd done, even if he felt like she was no longer capable of handling what was coming. He could be contemptuous, yes, but I got the same sense with him I get with Caldwell--that there's disbelief a civilian can do what the military can, but at the same time, a begrudging respect of the fact she's there in the first place. And in both cases, that respect grows based on her actions.





Immediately they bring in the plans for what to do against the Wraith--and I have to admit, this was a smart bit of writing. Every question you or I might have had about loopholes in the plans of the military, Colonel Everett answers.





One of my all time favorite scenes comes up next. After Weir is stripped of command, John comes to her defense by defying Everett to allow her inclusion. I don't remember exactly if we see John's face when Everett denies her access to the meeting--but either way, this is a pivotal moment for the Sheppard/Weir relationship.

I believe here is where we get resolution to "Hot Zone". Though John questioned her authority and capability in that episode, his defense of her here--in a larger military situation and in defiance of a commanding officer--is his testament to 'trusting her.' He is willing to put his career on the line to see she's a part of everything. And John's smart--he knows what to risk and how to risk it.

We all know John has an easy time defying orders--but here, he does so solely out of respect for Elizabeth, not because he feels she has a vital strategic role in the dealings (though she will). I love the way he speaks on her behalf, and the way he throws in the little "including me" at the end. All in all, one of my absolute favorite moments of the series:

SHEPPARD and WEIR enter.

SHEPPARD: Self-destruct has been aborted.

EVERETT: Thank you. Did you contact the alpha site?

SHEPPARD looks uncomfortably at WEIR.

WEIR: I asked Major Sheppard to wait until I had a chance to talk with you.

EVERETT: Is that a fact.

SHEPPARD: Yes, sir.

EVERETT: Major, dial the alpha site.

WEIR: Colonel, you've been here all of five minutes. Now, I have been responsible for the lives of the people on this base, both military and civilian, for the past several months. I'm not about to put those lives in jeopardy until I at least know how you intend to defend this city.

EVERETT: I don't need to explain myself to you, Doctor, and I don't need your cooperation.

SHEPPARD: But you could probably use mine. [EVERETT glares.] Sir. So with all due respect, please answer Doctor Weir's question.

EVERETT: Is that a threat, Major?

SHEPPARD: No, sir. I understand you need to establish a clear chain of command. But if you cut Doctor Weir out of the loop, you'll only alienate the people whose trust and respect she's earned, which is everyone on the base. [He pauses.] Including me.

EVERETT: Is that a fact. [He looks at them suspiciously, but nods.] Have a seat.

Everett continues being condescending towards them, but the story is solid. I thought everything they argued--and everything he responds with--was realistic considering the circumstances. I love John's remark of 'this is beginning to sound like a plan' and the annoyed look Everett throws him because of it.





And onto the battle! There are way too many scenes to recount in this episode, so forgive me skipping over some stuff.

The Battle sequence is one of the better ones I've seen, and I've seen a LOT of sci-fi in my day. *teeth*. But considering the budget for SGA is lower than a more mainstream sci-fi show, they do an impressive job with this special effects sequence. Nothing compares to it IMO, not even the much touted battle in "Be All My Sins Remember'd". I thought the touch of making it happen at night made it all the more impressive.

And I love they add the snippet of Elizabeth out on the balcony alongside the military. Woman has guts.







This episode, like "Siege I", has so much stuff packed into it it seems impossible that it's only 42 minutes long. But what makes the Siege series great is that they DO address every character and their roles on Atlantis. Not only individually, but through combined scenes with other characters. And even beyond just interacting, we see development too--like the example of Everett changing his mind about Teyla and her people.

Perhaps what makes the Siege great is it does have a dose of realism spread throughout it, and I attribute a lot of that to how Everett was written and played. He could have been stubborn about Teyla, but he's a military man trained to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of each situation. And he's the same with Weir, same with Rodney, same with John. In Teyla's situation, he knows he'll be better served to use the Athosians, though he was wary of their Wraith abilities. But he does change his mind because he knows the situation calls for it. Everett makes the same kind of decision about everyone else as well, and though his treatment of them can be arrogant at times (as when he questions John about Sumner) in the end he's a strong character and a good military leader. He is a well-balanced antagonist.



Post two, coming up!

[Eri13]

Part II--the best part!

How in the world they manage to throw this next part in considering everything else that's going on, I don't know--but we get an Elizabeth hero moment here, and it's completely awesome. Once again demonstrating the strength of "The Siege" as an episode series--everyone has a role to play, and Elizabeth's would have been strong simply through her support of Everett. But the writers up the ante on her character and allow her to have a major course of action all her own.

It comes about because of an idea John has--and of course, Elizabeth knows exactly what he's talking about without even having to ask him:

EVERETT: I'll take it. [They leave.] How much damage can one puddle jumper do?

SHEPPARD: I've got an idea about that too. [He looks at Weir.] I think I know where we can get another nuke.

WEIR: Major, I don't know how sympathetic the Genii will be to our situation.

EVERETT: The Genii?

SHEPPARD: They want to test their weapon? Now's their chance.

And so, off to the Genii. The only smidge of disappointment here was the lack of either Cowen, Ladon or Kolya's involvement. We get Prenum, who never shows up again. But in this particular moment, we see Elizabeth's strength as a character, leader, and person demonstrated to the utmost. Not only that, but she's kicka$$ in her dialogue to him--she's negotiating, but here we get a little of that ruthless Weir we all know exists. John will point out again in "Common Ground" that she can't be manipulated that easily.

WEIR: I am offering you the chance to test your weapon design on a Wraith hive ship at no risk to your own people, and still have enough to build dozens more. Now, if you are too proud, or too stupid to see the-

PRENUM: Be careful, Doctor.

WEIR: I am way past careful! Now you know what the deal is, and it's a damn good one, so take it or leave it.

Hello, Chuck--in case you weren't aware, by the way, Torri was the one who named him.





Why do I like Everett so much? Because even in the heat of things, they found time to develop his respect of Weir throughout the Siege series. I mentioned earlier I thought he had a muted respect for her; I think it blossoms into admiration for what she's capable of doing. Though she will obviously never be equal in terms of military strategy, by the end of this episode he completely respects her.




He's crushing now. She's totally won him over.

Finally, the downward spiral of the last few scenes. While Atlantis has held on admirably well, we've got a cliffhanger coming up, and it's a great one. We have the resolution of a lot of interpersonal moments--Everett acknowledging Weir and Teyla's strengths, for example--we've also fallen into desperation. As Rodney, Zelenka and Sheppard realize they can't get the chair to work, you know, based on one line spoken by John, what's coming next.

This line always breaks my heart a little bit, because I love how Joe Flanigan says it.

WEIR: Why are there no jumpers in the air!?

McKAY: [over radio] We must have exhausted the Mark II's energy output. It's dead.

INT. Chair room.

SHEPPARD: So long, Rodney. [runs out]

And now...a second all time favorite scene--probably in my top 5. We've been talking about how Siege II and III are all John & Elizabeth, and this one is one of the very best moments between them, though, considering the circumstances, it's heartbreaking!

The beauty of Sparky, of course, is how well Elizabeth and John understand one another. Throughout the Siege II, we've had a few small moments between them, and none of them require exposition. Elizabeth doesn't have to ask John to plead her case--he just does it. John does not have to explain his idea about getting a nuke from the Genii--Elizabeth knows what he's thinking.

And here, Elizabeth does not have to ask what he's going to do next. She knows. And she doesn't want it to happen. And yet, because they are who they are, they both know it has to happen, if they want the rest of Atlantis to survive.

There could have been an easy way out--they could have let the city go, and evacuated. But John is willing to do everything for Atlantis, and so is Elizabeth. We've seen her 'sacrificial' moment in Siege II, where she challenges the Genii; this moment belongs to John.

But, it requires one thing--clearance. And Elizabeth, knowing him, his mind, knowing the cost--agrees to let him:

SHEPPARD runs into the room.

SHEPPARD: Elizabeth, wait.

He starts up the stairs as she turns around. He stops on the stairs and looks down at her.

WEIR: You *can't*.

SHEPPARD: I have to, and you know it.

WEIR: [shaking her head] John. . . [A long pause. SHEPPARD is still out of breath.] Go.

SHEPPARD nods and runs up the stairs.

Of course the moment is poignant because it's the last time these two expect to see one another. And they are the only two who 'understand' why it has to be done. Everyone else is appalled that she's allowed him to go on a suicide mission.

*SEASON 4 DISCUSSION WARNING - under the cut for those who refuse to believe Season 4 exists *

Spoiler:

This reflects the same type of feeling John will have when he orders Rodney not to reactivate Elizabeth's nanites in "Adrift", and anyone who questions his actions there should take a look at Elizabeth's here. Yes, the cost of the action is the loss of the other's life. Yes, it means they'll never see each other again. But Elizabeth and John have such an understanding of one another that they know, in their hearts, what the other one wants. Completely. And so, they're willing to make the sacrifice because they so respect (and care) about one another that they would do anything the other wants.

Here, John wants nothing more than to save the city. Elizabeth knows that's the only thing he can give them now, and she knows that's what he wants, more than anything. She believes the same thing he does--the city and its people are most important. So she lets him go, when no one else would. Because she knows him, she trusts him, and she believes in him. What has to be killing her is hearing Rodney and everyone else, who don't have as deep an understanding, asking 'why, why did you let him go!' when it's breaking her heart as much as theirs.









And so, we wait.

I'll leave it up to y'all if you want to carry this discussion over the weekend or Siege III.

[Torri012]

And one more thing.... some time ago I experimented with sparky and croatian music. Watch the video if you're brave enough! http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x...t=7455b819.flv

WOW!
love this one. i didnt understand a word but the way it sounded it must be a very beautiful song.

i thought about doing something like that once too with an austrian song but .. well .. i'm not sure if that really it fits though

[SMB_BOOKS]

I absolutely LOVE the fact Elizabeth gets a hero moment in Siege II. It's an example of how she could play a role in the story. She was INVOLVED.

I cheered when John had her back when it came to Everett. He went to bat for her just like she did for him when she picked him for the expedition. Pure awesomeness.

Her interactions with Everett - awesome. She didn't back down. She stood firm, articulated her point and at every turn had the safety of the city and the expedition as her top concern, even when it meant John sacrificing himself. And, I'll just add that I agree with all of Eri13's points regarding that moment between John and Elizabeth.

Great eps for Elizabeth's leadership and her and John's development as a team.

[Eri13]

I absolutely LOVE the fact Elizabeth gets a hero moment in Siege II. It's an example of how she could play a role in the story. She was INVOLVED.

I cheered when John had her back when it came to Everett. He went to bat for her just like she did for him when she picked him for the expedition. Pure awesomeness.

Her interactions with Everett - awesome. She didn't back down. She stood firm, articulated her point and at every turn had the safety of the city and the expedition as her top concern, even when it meant John sacrificing himself. And, I'll just add that I agree with all of Eri13's points regarding that moment between John and Elizabeth.

Great eps for Elizabeth's leadership and her and John's development as a team.

I was certain that Elizabeth was going to plead her own case for her involvement--but that was a twist the writers threw in that I adore--that John was the one who got her in, and he risked a lot, including the ire of Everett, in doing so. How awesome of him. He adores his Lizzie. *SQUISHES*

[borgprincess]

*interrupts ep analysis to pimp fic*

It's a light, non-angsty fic. Elizabeth's in a bad mood and Shep wants to make her feel better. Cute, no? Lol.

At fanfiction.net or at my LJ.

*back to the ep*
I really hated Everett and then the writers damn well made me like him and it's awful because I do feel so sad about what happened to him after his run-in with the Wraith. It's a testament to their character development skills that they made me care about this rude, abrasive character. The way he condescended to Elizabeth made me boil...then he went and acted all gentleman-like by shielding her from Wraith fire out on the balcony...

Spoiler:

...and he kept hitting on her the rest of the ep, he was always like, 'I owe you a drink...we'll get that drink I promised you later...' Lol. Everyone falls for Lizzeh's awesome seductive charisma.

I love how supportive and calm and matter-of-fact Elizabeth is with Shep in this scene:

Spoiler:

He's not always good with receiving advice or sympathy, as with Conversion's 'your bedside manner sucks', here he brushes off her well-meaning words about finding Ford and saying he'd've ditched the jumper and gated elsewhere and they'd never find him. But Elizabeth doesn't get defensive or pull back from him or keep pushing the happy little optimist routine. Quietly, firmly, she reminds him, 'At least we're still alive to try'.

I love comparing this scene with Lifeline. Here, he's bitter, he has no hope, he doesn't *believe* and it's Elizabeth telling him to pick himself up and keep going and keep hoping- in LL, when faced with Elizabeth's disappearance, in circumstances that would warrant hopelessness and despair, instead he's filled with resolve and determination that he *will* find her if it's possible, he'll do whatever he can to bring her back. And I like to think it's Elizabeth's influence on him that he's hoping for the best and that he's believing in himself.

[SMB_BOOKS]

He's not always good with receiving advice or sympathy, as with Conversion's 'your bedside manner sucks', here he brushes off her well-meaning words about finding Ford and saying he'd've ditched the jumper and gated elsewhere and they'd never find him. But Elizabeth doesn't get defensive or pull back from him or keep pushing the happy little optimist routine. Quietly, firmly, she reminds him, 'At least we're still alive to try'.

I love comparing this scene with Lifeline. Here, he's bitter, he has no hope, he doesn't *believe* and it's Elizabeth telling him to pick himself up and keep going and keep hoping- in LL, when faced with Elizabeth's disappearance, in circumstances that would warrant hopelessness and despair, instead he's filled with resolve and determination that he *will* find her if it's possible, he'll do whatever he can to bring her back. And I like to think it's Elizabeth's influence on him that he's hoping for the best and that he's believing in himself.

WOOT! YES! AMEN! AGREE 100%!

[Eri13]

*interrupts ep analysis to pimp fic*

It's a light, non-angsty fic. Elizabeth's in a bad mood and Shep wants to make her feel better. Cute, no? Lol.

At fanfiction.net or at my LJ.

*back to the ep*
I really hated Everett and then the writers damn well made me like him and it's awful because I do feel so sad about what happened to him after his run-in with the Wraith. It's a testament to their character development skills that they made me care about this rude, abrasive character. The way he condescended to Elizabeth made me boil...then he went and acted all gentleman-like by shielding her from Wraith fire out on the balcony...

Spoiler:

...and he kept hitting on her the rest of the ep, he was always like, 'I owe you a drink...we'll get that drink I promised you later...' Lol. Everyone falls for Lizzeh's awesome seductive charisma.

I love how supportive and calm and matter-of-fact Elizabeth is with Shep in this scene:

Spoiler:

He's not always good with receiving advice or sympathy, as with Conversion's 'your bedside manner sucks', here he brushes off her well-meaning words about finding Ford and saying he'd've ditched the jumper and gated elsewhere and they'd never find him. But Elizabeth doesn't get defensive or pull back from him or keep pushing the happy little optimist routine. Quietly, firmly, she reminds him, 'At least we're still alive to try'.

I love comparing this scene with Lifeline. Here, he's bitter, he has no hope, he doesn't *believe* and it's Elizabeth telling him to pick himself up and keep going and keep hoping- in LL, when faced with Elizabeth's disappearance, in circumstances that would warrant hopelessness and despair, instead he's filled with resolve and determination that he *will* find her if it's possible, he'll do whatever he can to bring her back. And I like to think it's Elizabeth's influence on him that he's hoping for the best and that he's believing in himself.

Thanks for finding that shielding picture! I was looking for it but couldn't find it. *saves it* I loved that part, too. That whole battle was teh *awesomeness*

I believe I'll leave Siege II discussion up for the weekend--I've got to do some work today. *teeth* and I haven't farmed pictures for it (though I have about 20 million of the hug scene). So if y'all don't mind, I'll postpone "Siege III" discussion until Monday and Tuesday.