Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Mann One]

OMG we so need people like you around.I like Carter but just not on SGA. That's just me. As I said before, I'm among those who'll try to stick with the show. But I'm not blind and I'll fight as long as the show's on the air

Not sure exactly how to take that first remark was it meant as an insult or was it meant as just a statement.

I'll still watch SGA maybe not as frequently as i did but i'll still watch it.

( well the big question is will it make it past season 4 .... hm ).

Well that is a valid question as another show i liked made changes between season three and four and it ended up getting cancelled maybe it wasn't just down to the changes but they were probably a part of the reason.

I'm not bothered at all. DD took a year out of XF but that didn't kill the ship between Mulder and Scully; there were still plenty of angsty moments from Scully over Mulder, and I quite liked their reunion in the finale.

I can see what you mean with DD and the last couple of seasons of the X-Files.
Is that what you envision happening in Atlantis remembering the track record these guys have with recurring characters and their handling of Ships . I'm shaking my head in amused bemusement hopefully i can find the same kind optimism for the situation that you have.

[Vicky]

Dood, it's fact! I don't think you can disagree with fact, lol.

But yeah, there's plenty of sparkage between John and Lizzie... as evidenced in GUP.

Oh my I still remember the Sparky shippers' reaction to that scene on GUP! SPARKS!!

Well that is a valid question as another show i liked made changes between season three and four and it ended up getting cancelled maybe it wasn't just down to the changes but they were probably a part of the reason.

Sometimes when they are just too many changes at the same time, it's difficult to adapt to all of them. And I'm afraid that would the case with Atlantis. Now, I do hope that if there's a s5, Torri will come back full time!

And just a question, which show do you talk about?

[SallyLizzie]

Is that what you envision happening in Atlantis remembering the track record these guys have with recurring characters and their handling of Ships . I'm shaking my head in amused bemusement hopefully i can find the same kind optimism for the situation that you have.

On the whole, I like the show, and I find it's healthier to just enjoy it and make the best out of each situation than to freak out and rage against "those evil PTB".

I have no complaints in what we've got with Sheppard and Weir so far, but then different shipers want different things (some more realistic than others). Over 3 years, we've seen a steady progression from colleagues to close friends, and seen development in both their professional and personal relationship. And that's never gotten in the way of serious decision making, imo.

And before anyone jumps in with how bad TPTB ruined J/S, remember that until S5, that ship flowed beautifully and I'm sure they've learned a lesson regarding trying to wrap things up just because they think the show is ending. The showrunners of SG1 (BW and RCC) were'nt shippers; JM is a shipper and has said he has no problem with ship aslong as it's a natural progression, which is something we've ALL said applies to John and Elizabeth.

[Vicky]

On the whole, I like the show, and I find it's healthier to just enjoy it and make the best out of each situation than to freak out and rage against "those evil PTB".

I have no complaints in what we've got with Sheppard and Weir so far, but then different shipers want different things (some more realistic than others). Over 3 years, we've seen a steady progression from colleagues to close friends, and seen development in both their professional and personal relationship. And that's never gotten in the way of serious decision making, imo.

And before anyone jumps in with how bad TPTB ruined J/S, remember that until S5, that ship flowed beautifully and I'm sure they've learned a lesson regarding trying to wrap things up just because they think the show is ending. The showrunners of SG1 (BW and RCC) were'nt shippers; JM is a shipper and has said he has no problem with ship aslong as it's a natural progression, which is something we've ALL said applies to John and Elizabeth.

ITA with you on all your points! JM has given us pretty shippy eps in SG1 so why not in Atlantis too? And yep he's a shipper so that's a big plus!

[SallyLizzie]

ITA with you on all your points! JM has given us pretty shippy eps in SG1 so why not in Atlantis too? And yep he's a shipper so that's a big plus!

Not just in SG1. Although M&M have written a couple of duff SGA eps (The Tower, Irresponsible), they also written some of the most shippy:

• Home
• Siege 2
• Intruder
• Misbegotten

In Home, we had that wonderful scene in Shep's bedroom where he tells Elizabeth that it wouldn't be the same without her, and then in his fake!apartment he wonders about Elizabeth - then the others. Seige2 not only gave us 39:30, but I believe we also had Shep defending Lizzie to Everett. In The Intruder we had that very flirty scene aboard the Daedalus, and Elizabeth getting Shep his promotion. It's also the ep that killed Simon/Lizzie. Just saying. Misbegotten

Spoiler:

gave us Elizabeth gazing at John for a noticible length of time, John getting extremely ticked off when Woolsey "judged every damned decision [she'd] ever made" and Elizabeth teasing "are you defending my honour?!"

I'd say all these scenes - especially the one in Misbegotten - weren't needed to forward the plot in any way. The episode would have worked just as well without them. But they're still there.

So yeah, I am optimistic.

[Vicky]

Not just in SG1. Although M&M have written a couple of duff SGA eps (The Tower, Irresponsible), they also written some of the most shippy:

• Home
• Siege 2
• Intruder
• Misbegotten

In Home, we had that wonderful scene in Shep's bedroom where he tells Elizabeth that it wouldn't be the same without her, and then in his fake!apartment he wonders about Elizabeth - then the others. Seige2 not only gave us 39:30, but I believe we also had Shep defending Lizzie to Everett. In The Intruder we had that very flirty scene aboard the Daedalus, and Elizabeth getting Shep his promotion. It's also the ep that killed Simon/Lizzie. Just saying. Misbegotten

Spoiler:

gave us Elizabeth gazing at John for a noticible length of time, John getting extremely ticked off when Woolsey "judged every damned decision [she'd] ever made" and Elizabeth teasing "are you defending my honour?!"

I'd say all these scenes - especially the one in Misbegotten - weren't needed to forward the plot in any way. The episode would have worked just as well without them. But they're still there.

So yeah, I am optimistic.

Oh yeah, I've totally forgotten that they're behind those eps. Well if they keep going in that direction...

[Ronnikins]

On the whole, I like the show, and I find it's healthier to just enjoy it and make the best out of each situation than to freak out and rage against "those evil PTB".

I have no complaints in what we've got with Sheppard and Weir so far, but then different shipers want different things (some more realistic than others). Over 3 years, we've seen a steady progression from colleagues to close friends, and seen development in both their professional and personal relationship. And that's never gotten in the way of serious decision making, imo.

And before anyone jumps in with how bad TPTB ruined J/S, remember that until S5, that ship flowed beautifully and I'm sure they've learned a lesson regarding trying to wrap things up just because they think the show is ending. The showrunners of SG1 (BW and RCC) were'nt shippers; JM is a shipper and has said he has no problem with ship aslong as it's a natural progression, which is something we've ALL said applies to John and Elizabeth.

Sally!!!! *tackles*

And welcome back Mann One.

Back on topic, I wasn't really a S/J shipper, more D/S if pushed. It was only after Divide and Conquer I thought, hmmm, I can run with that and started looking for the "extras" after that.

I also have no complaints with S/W so far, well, a bit more wouldn't go astray.
I realise absolutely a love relationship is not the main focus of this show and may even detract from it, what I don't want to happen is having a ship go canon that seems so obviously forced just because that's the way it was meant to be. I rather we didn't have ship of any kind at all *please don't throw tomatoes* than watch scenes on screen that would have me cringing.

I've gotten rather "meh" with next season, it's a bit hard to ship when one half

Spoiler:

is not there most of the time.

I'll still watch cuz Stargate has been part of my life for 10 years now but only if I feel like it.

Since we're talking about other TV shows, I rewatched a couple of TXF episodes and was blown away again by the chemistry between M/S. They were a sizzling hot combination.
Was also watching "Numb3rs", "House", "Bones" and "NCIS" and, yes, I know these shows are different but they started about the same time as SGA but have progressed further along in terms of character development and relationships. These characters are far more 3-dimensional than what we're getting for the SGA characters. Why?

Ack!..... I kinda lost the plot now.....forget what point I was trying to make so I just do a pic!spam instead and make some coffee so I can think more clearly.

Spoiler:

[SallyLizzie]

Oh yeah, I've totally forgotten that they're behind those eps. Well if they keep going in that direction...

It's easy to forget. Which is why I'm happy to take 5 minutes to do a bit of research to remind myself, before joining the mass panic.

...and I was browsing newatlantis and found this lovely pic. Love the way she's looking at him.

[Mann One]

Sometimes when they are just too many changes at the same time, it's difficult to adapt to all of them. And I'm afraid that would the case with Atlantis. Now, I do hope that if there's a s5, Torri will come back full time!

And just a question, which show do you talk about?

I'm talking about Farscape they brought in one character at the end of season three and another at the beginning of season four and changed his main enemy and i just don't think it worked, it caused the show to lose a certain something in regards to its overall story .(I Could explain my opinion further but this is a SGA shipper thread and i dont want to go too off subject)

I'm not entirely convinced that its the amount of changes that cause problems, I think that its what the actually changes are, like new actors, changes to the overall story etc...

On the whole, I like the show, and I find it's healthier to just enjoy it and make the best out of each situation than to freak out and rage against "those evil PTB".

I don't think im freaking out about it there will probably some raging going on if they mess it up (if they continue the ship) but i think im more disappointed that one of the characters i like in the show has been cut back and also more than slightly disapointed in their judgement of what I as a fan may want from the series.

I have no complaints in what we've got with Sheppard and Weir so far, but then different shipers want different things (some more realistic than others). Over 3 years, we've seen a steady progression from colleagues to close friends, and seen development in both their professional and personal relationship. And that's never gotten in the way of serious decision making, imo.

I agree with that statement as i have from the beginning, I've never looked into the ship too deeply and seen more than what i believe would be there as have some shippers.

[Vicky]

I've gotten rather "meh" with next season, it's a bit hard to ship when one half

Spoiler:

is not there most of the time.

I'll still watch cuz Stargate has been part of my life for 10 years now but only if I feel like it.

Well I managed to get my ship fix every now and then in SG1 so...

Was also watching "Numb3rs", "House", "Bones" and "NCIS" and, yes, I know these shows are different but they started about the same time as SGA but have progressed further along in terms of character development and relationships. These characters are far more 3-dimensional than what we're getting for the SGA characters. Why?

Because those shows are not scifi shows and can have as many character driven eps as they want, while Atlantis... While I wouldn't mind if we have a lot of character driven eps, I don't think some would think the same.

[Ronnikins]

Well I managed to get my ship fix every now and then in SG1 so...

Well I'm keeping my fingers crossed for lots of John!angst next season.

Because those shows are not scifi shows and can have as many character driven eps as they want, while Atlantis... While I wouldn't mind if we have a lot of character driven eps, I don't think some would think the same.

That's a valid point Vicky, however, I always thought SGA would be a darker, more character driven show than SG:1 (don't ask me where I got that assumption). I didn't think it would be a clone of SG:1.
So maybe my basic premise that this wouldn't be a purely sci-fi show was wrong and that's why maybe I still don't fully know how these characters tick even at the end of Season 3. We have had more fleshing out, especially for McKay but I still don't have a handle for Shep yet except for conjecture and little canon glimpses here and there. Even for Elizabeth, there're parts of her I haven't quite grasped in regards to her actions. Or is it the way the different writers present them?
Ack! Another post that didn't make much sense. Now I really need to get my coffee.

[SallyLizzie]

Sally!!!! *tackles*

*picks self up off floor* Hey, Ronni!

I rather we didn't have ship of any kind at all *please don't throw tomatoes* than watch scenes on screen that would have me cringing.

WORD! When you put ship in just for the sake of going "there's some ship" it can go horribly wrong. It can also work great, as evidenced by some Sparky scenes, but I'd like to think that came natural to the writers, and that they didn't feel awkward when writing it.

These characters are far more 3-dimensional than what we're getting for the SGA characters. Why?

Stargate has never really been a character driven show. I think with shows like BSG, where there is a lot of character development (from what I've heard. I don't watch it), fans who watch both shows start wanting it in SG!verse bc it's an aspect they really enjoy in BSG/other shows.

I think Stargate is getting better with it, though. Might not be as full on as other shows, but what we've gotten in better than nothing, imo.

*pounces!* I've just been thinking of this pic and now you've saved me from going looking for it.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...sateda0424.jpg
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...goodbye946.jpg

Hee! It's like 'Mr and Mrs' matching outfits.

[SallyLizzie]

Well I'm keeping my fingers crossed for lots of John!angst next season.

Ditto.

First Strike and Season 4

Spoiler:

So right now Lizzie's pupil response is sluggish and she's in a Bad Way, but I can't how keeping her comatose for her appearances is going to create this big arc. There has to be a point when she wakes up. I'm hoping for a lovely scene between the two when that happens, like in TRW, but bigger bc dude! SHE GOT BLOWN DOWN THE FRICKIN' STAIRS!! I'm also hoping for some bedside angst, and if she is relieved of her command position, we could still get Shep defending her and trying to get her reinstated.

And if she does end up on Earth, it will be interesting to see how Shep reacts/treats his new boss. Could be some very nice build up for when she does come back.

See? Just bc screen time isn't shared, it doesn't mean a ship is automatically dead.

however, I always thought SGA would be a darker, more character driven show than SG:1 (don't ask me where I got that assumption). I didn't think it would be a clone of SG:1.

Maybe it was plugged that way in the beginning, bc now that you mention it, I recall thinking the same, that it was darker. Perhaps it had to do with how sinister the Wraith were... until they became camp and characters like Lucius and The Tower crew started making appearances, giving the show a campy feeling.

Now I've nothing against camp, I just prefer it in Will & Grace. However, I think the introduction of the Asurans will help bring back that edgier feel.

[Mann One]

Thanks Ronnikins for the welcome Back I really should have returned before now but time just slipped away.
Just want to recommend several fics I have no idea if anyone else has recommended them before but here you go.

Beginnings end
by Irony_Rocks
http://sg-atlantis.org/fanfics/views...ze=0&chapter=1

Deadly Passion
by Hazeydream
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2588543/1/

To be Continued
by Angel of fire SG1
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2247303/1/

Does anyone have any good AU Sparky fics they recommend.

Also does any one know where the sequel to the AU fic bronze can be found.

[SallyLizzie]

Bronze, and it's sequel, Malachite.