Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Purpleyin]

definately! i mean, if it's done well, romance can truly serve both the characters and the story, and can be fun and interesting to boot!! not to mention full of lots of great emotion

BUT if they don't do it well, i'll still watch, but be thinking the whole time "umm... ok, wish that wasn't there"... the main problem i had with how sam/jack was handled, for example, was having nothing more than friend stuff then suddenly "BOOM!!!" a huge mega-ship episode that totally overkilled and overstated it!! other than divide and conquer and evil!pete and kerry, i actually thought it wasn't handled THAAAAAT terribly

Mmmm boots...
Sorry caught me on the boots thing again (oh Ba'al! ) but yes on the rest of what you said. I suspect that despite my disinterest in Shep/Weir romance that if it was done well I'd still be happy to watch the show since I'm not anti-S/W or anything, just far less interested. And if it was done right then it'd be great to have more insight into the characters, particularly Weir.

[LurkerLa]

Back to Weir/Sheppard, since we were talking about moments, what is you're one (am limiting it so you have to think it through ) favourite Sheppard/Weir moment?

For me it would be from 'Home', their conversation in Sheppard's room where they are both dancing around trying to suss out what the other is thinking. And I like how the camer pushes in slowly in on their faces. Nice chemistry there.

Just one? I'll have to get back to you after I rewatch all the episodes a few more times...

See, part of the reason I'm LurkerLa is that I'm just enjoying the discussions y'all have so much - all these points about friendship and romance (except the disturbing bits about incest - YIKES!). And then I see fic recommendations (which is good and bad, because yesterday I seriously spent 12 hours on my couch with my laptop reading fanfic. With crappy dial-up internet. And my cell off so no distractions. In my pajamas. Yes, I'm that pathetic ). So I figure, why not just lurk and let everyone else do the work?

That said - I'm still going to throw in my own two cents. While I'd be disappointed if Sheppard/Weir never wound up going anywhere, I'd hope that it didn't happen for years, and that even then mostly it's just implied and left up to our own fertile imaginations. And I truly enjoy seeing Weir and McKay interact, although I'm with others who say it has more the appearance of a sibling relationshp. Heck, once when I was cold I made my brother put his arm around me (he grumbled about why he had to when he was just as cold). I'm liking all the friendships that are developing between everyone in Atlantis. And overall, as much as I'm a S/W and S/J shipper, I almost prefer friendship. Whenever romance and sex get thrown into the equation, it complicates and overwhelms the story (and generally not in a good way), and while that's fine in a show like, oh, say Gilmore Girls, I have no desire for Atlantis to turn into a soap opera or a romantic sitcom.

Okay, I intended to just say a couple of sentences here, but whenever my fingers touch a keyboard they get a mind of thier own...

[emily_reich]

oh, i can totally agree with you there!! i DEFINATELY don't want atlantis to turn sitcom or soap opera methinks the only scifi show that's gotten away with doing lots of romance is BSG (which is another show i've gotten quite addicted to, if not at the same level as SG )... certainly i think a ship could work out well on atlantis... i think the show has the right vibe for some romance... however i do think that at least for a couple years, just building strong friendships is key, and i love how much of that there already is in the show so i don't want that to be sacrificed just for some ship, but if they can BUILD on a friendship that's there and create a well-done ship out of it, then by all means go for it cuz as i said, i think atlantis has the right vibe about it

[Liv]

But I must say, that "ship" to me is much more than a romance. I really hope that we see a mature, open and honest approach to any relationship there is between Sheppard and Weir. I think their friendship and committment to each other as leaders and people is so important and in many ways much more interesting viewing.

So at this point, McKay/Weir has had the two of them under threat of death, huddling for warmth in a hurricane. This is romantic? I mean, I can understand how people who already liked the ship really liked that moment, but we can't read that as something other than a "competing ship"? Last night, when I was at a restaurant, I put my arm around one of my friends, and she had her head on my shoulder. Does this mean we're in love? Of course not, and no one who knows us would suggest it. But I do love her like a sister, and that's where the affection comes from.

Far too often in fandom, that kind of display is construed as romantic love, as if there's no other reason for showing someone you care. Coming to a point where you love someone else as you would love father, mother, brother, or sister is just as beautiful and powerful as coming to love someone romantically, and often I think it's more powerful.

The closest relationship I have is with my brother. Sure, we tease and torment each other, as we did when we were growing up, but I know he would do anything for me, and I'd do anything for him. That's an incredibly intense feeling, and it doesn't have anything to do with romantic love. This is why I love watching McKay and Weir interact, and why I don't see it as remotely shippy. That kind of closeness, having nothing to do with sex, isn't seen often in pop culture today, which is why I've been so happy to see it with these two, and to a lesser extent with Sheppard and McKay.

I agree with this so very much. This is why I consider myself a non-shipper more than anything else. I’d like to think that there is such a thing as men and women caring for one another without that having to translate into feelings of love. Like you said, Mel: in many ways that can be even MORE powerful.

I adore the little moments between the characters; them laughing together and teasing one another and all those other things that have them interacting as people who have formed a close bond with each other under extraordinary circumstances. Them caring for each other without there having to be anything more to it than just that: caring for each other.

I feel the same way about the McKay/Weir relationship. I adore their interaction, I really do. They bicker and tease each other and there’s also a great deal of respect between the two of them. I think it’s a beautiful thing they’ve got going. But I still see them as far too sibling-like in their interaction for me to ever be able to think of them as a couple.

I can’t help but see Sheppard/Weir, though. It's beyond my control.

[emily_reich]

I agree with this so very much. This is why I consider myself a non-shipper more than anything else. I’d like to think that there is such a thing as men and women caring for one another without that having to translate into feelings of love. Like you said, Mel: in many ways that can be even MORE powerful.

yes! it definately can be! i think the best (and most obvious) example, at least to me, is sam and daniel... it was sam's description of their friendship that convinced him to return to earth after descending... but then again, on SG1, i would actually say ALL the friendships are really well done i can only hope that the people on atlantis can be developed into having friendships as SG1 has done!! you can definately see that they're well on their way to that

[astronomicalchick]

I can’t help but see Sheppard/Weir, though. It's beyond my control.

woo hoo!!! did you see that???

Liv's a shipper!!

She is, I tell you, she is! A shipper.

Whoo hoo!

[astronomicalchick]

What can I add to the already excellent posts here. I couldn't agree more. Romance does not have the monopoly on beautiful, life changing and profound relationships. This is what annoys me a little about slash (I'm not bashing slashers truly), but there are instances were two guys can have a profound love for each other, that sex only spoils (in my opinion only). So I'm happy for Liz and McKay to love one another in a profound platonic sense, and that Lizzie does the HWMS thing with Sheppard (because you know, we all know theyaresodoingitomg!)

Oooh favourite shippy moment. In The Eye, when Sheppard is coming down the stairs and he hears that Elizabeth is alive. Oooh that gave me shivers that did!

[Oma-1]

ooh, does this mean i'm not the only mutil-shipper anymore??!! coolies!

yeah, most of the stuff we've had to go on for any ship is some caring, lots of juicy and wonderful angst, and lots of looks, glances, and gazes... and, lovely as that is, there isn't much beyond that yet... as someone pointed out earlier, it is actually mcweir that's had the most affectionate physical contact yet in the form of them putting their arms around each other in the eye... i'd love to see more stuff like that in ALL my ships next season.. even just a hand on a shoulder!! i'd love to see more of that just little things

If we're going for a technical definition of ship being relationship, then I'm a multi-shipper too

I think that S1 has set up great interactions between the main characters. Shep/Teyla I think is developing into a close bond of comrades and friends. The same can be said for Shep/Ford, Shep/McKay, McKay/Beckett, Weir/Beckett, Weir/McKay and just about all of the pairings (meaning platonic relationships not slash ). Each relationship interacts differently because of the vagaries of their personalities, but that bond of shared experiences and the love (plantonic kind), trust and appreciation for each other these experiences foster, is developing among all the characters. So in that respect, I ship for them all Character development and interaction is as important to me as the plot lines.

The reason I ship for Shep/Weir is because I like to think their relationship has the potential to develop into something so much more than friendship and comradeship. Whether that is deliberately written by tptb, or just naturally there between Joe & Torri, I don't know. This is why I was unsure where the ship was going. TPTB don't have a great record on ship as far as I am concerned. They like to throw in lots of red herrings (which hopefully was Teyla at the beginning) and don't like to play their hand too soon!

But I'm converted to Shep/Weir cos that's the ship I wanna see sailing. I think it has more magic than other perceived romantic pairings.

[seetheship]

Oooh favourite shippy moment. In The Eye, when Sheppard is coming down the stairs and he hears that Elizabeth is alive. Oooh that gave me shivers that did!

IMHO any moment of SW eye contact AKA "gazing" on this thread is a shipper moment Seriously though ..I`m in the camp of those who think the best relationships i.e romantic/true love relationship stems from a true friendship base. Love (for me at least) is synonymous with trust and respect and vice versa and if a rel`ship is not based on that...forget about it! ..Anyway what I wanted to say is that the most shippiest moment (perhaps corny for others ) is when Sheppard defends Elizabeth to Everett in Siege II by telling him that he "trusts and respects Dr Weir" . For now they building a true friendship and with time ( hopefully by S3 or S4 ) we`ll have great UST or hopefully RST.

[Oma-1]

Sam and Jack got together in Broca Divide? That's an interesting interpretation of "together", and I'm not sure there's a Sam/Jack shipper alive who would say that's what happened.

No, they weren't together at this point, but it certainly got me thinking they would be at some point

So at this point, McKay/Weir has had the two of them under threat of death, huddling for warmth in a hurricane. This is romantic? I mean, I can understand how people who already liked the ship really liked that moment, but we can't read that as something other than a "competing ship"? Last night, when I was at a restaurant, I put my arm around one of my friends, and she had her head on my shoulder. Does this mean we're in love? Of course not, and no one who knows us would suggest it. But I do love her like a sister, and that's where the affection comes from.

Far too often in fandom, that kind of display is construed as romantic love, as if there's no other reason for showing someone you care. Coming to a point where you love someone else as you would love father, mother, brother, or sister is just as beautiful and powerful as coming to love someone romantically, and often I think it's more powerful.

The closest relationship I have is with my brother. Sure, we tease and torment each other, as we did when we were growing up, but I know he would do anything for me, and I'd do anything for him. That's an incredibly intense feeling, and it doesn't have anything to do with romantic love. This is why I love watching McKay and Weir interact, and why I don't see it as remotely shippy. That kind of closeness, having nothing to do with sex, isn't seen often in pop culture today, which is why I've been so happy to see it with these two, and to a lesser extent with Sheppard and McKay.

As for Sheppard/Weir, I've enjoyed watching their friendship develop, and I see the potential for something more. There's great chemistry between them, and there have been times this season where it's felt like they're testing the waters with each other. Sure, she didn't sit huddling in the rain with John's arm around her, but her relationships with these two men are going to manifest themselves quite differently. That's why, I think, the moment where he grabs her hand to finally take her to safety, after doing so much to keep her alive, was so touching for most of us. It didn't need to be flashy and overstated, because at this point, they're probably not sure of it themselves.

So true. This is the point I was trying to make, but you do it so much more eloquently There are lots of types of relationships that are centred around love. I hope tptb aren't afraid to explore them without resorting to the stereotypical romantic interest, and forgetting the rest.

I want more than a typical scifi romance (ie lots of angst and avoiding the subject) for Shep/Weir. It would be great to see a real relationship for them, struggling through the ups and downs that all relationships suffer, instead of UST, UST and more UST.

I doubt that's what we'll get though ......

[Oma-1]

I wouldn't mind reading some fics for them that were only friendship, if anyone has any links I'd be grateful. The friendship I'm interested in but nothing more, just don't have desire to read anything more into it for whatever reason or to read stuff that does, and a bit wary of searching for such fics becuase I don't want to sift through ones with the romance in. If this was the wrong place to ask then I apologise.

No need to apologise Although I'm shipping for Shep/Weir, I don't like to read fanfic that doesn't say true to where the characters are in the show. At the moment, I like to read ff that has them as friends, with the question / possibility of something more. I don't wanna see any R or NC17 situations. So if you find any, send 'em my way too

[wizengamot]

Jeeze go away for two days and come back to multiple pages!! In response to most recent posts:

I think it was I that mentioned many moons ago that weir/McKay had to only real physical touching. Now that wasn't meant in any romantic way, as I myself didn't see it romantic, but it is literally the only real, personal physical touching. I think they have a very strong friendship in a different way than shepp/weir which I see as being equally strong. Because he isn't the commanding military officer it isn't weird to see him and Weir showcasing their friendship more openly. Since you don't have to worry about any misinterpretations of Regs, they can pretty much do what they want and no one would automatically think they were sleeping together.

Since Weir and Sheppard have a more... volatile (?) relationship, and they are both the bigger seen leaders of Atlantis, I think it would seem weird for them to be overly touchy-feely in public (not even in a romantic way) I could def. see it happening now that the wraith have come, killed so many, and tried to take over Atlantis because I think that brings all the danger and the real need for each other (as in, EVERYONE on Atlantis) into new light. I wouldn't be surprised if more touching was done between all characters. And I totally agree with Mel that not all touching is romantic. Because like a lot of you have said as well, esp. with my female friends, we are sometimes overly touchy feely because we are just that comfortable with each other that we all know we aren't trying to feel each other up and that we can do so without really caring. lol.

I love Atlantis because in my opinion, because it is (well was, we don't know now) vastly civilian and they were cut off from earth, everything and everyone had a much more personal feel and attitude towards each other. That made the friendships forge stronger and the reliance on each other needed and cherished. I love that from SG1, where they are really close, but sometimes I would sit there and think "That person almost died! Give them a ******* hug! Or atleast show some more emotion!" and with Grodin dying you can really tell everyone is torn up and even though they do have to move on, that they acknowledged his death more.

P.S- I think my sister is slowly turning to the side of shep/weir instead of Shep/Teyla. She was doing homework and I had use on the comp. so I put on episodes and I was like "WATCH HOW HE CARES ABOUT WEIR AND NOT TEYLA!!!" and by the end of an hour she was like surprised and happy by some weir/shep moment. Ok the end on that random story.

And Emily OT, after hearing you talk about Baam and seeing your siggy, I've been entrigued! What one good Baam episode would you recommend me to watch?

[Melyanna]

New Atlantis spoilers, for an episode entitled "Condemned" (#5 for Season 2, in production order):

Spoiler:

Sheppard and company crash-land on an island where the serious criminals of a planet are banished. This happens to be where the gate is, so when the Wraith come, they cull from the criminals and don't venture toward the civilization, which is quite advanced in comparison with most of the civilizations we've seen in Pegasus. The system seems to work pretty well until Sheppard and his team arrive there, finding out that not everyone on the island has committed a heinous crime.

One plot of the story is a murderer threatening to kill Sheppard, Teyla, and Ronon unless McKay fixes the crashed puddle jumper, so he can use it as his personal escape from the island. As you can imagine, that's all fun and games.

The other plot that I thought some here would find very interesting is that Weir gets to go off-world! Early in the episode, the gate activates and no signal comes through, so at some point she goes off-world and runs into the magistrate who runs the planet. Someone tries to tell her the truth of what's going on — that the magistrate has people who've done nothing arrested, to keep the population on the island high — and she stands up to the gross injustice on the planet. And essentially, she goes off-world to rescue John.

I know this is a bit vague, but I just got this stuff half an hour ago, so I haven't read it thoroughly. If anyone wants clarifications on things, I'll do my best — just remember that sometimes no clarification is available.

[La'rosh]

...

That's just plain scary.

Not that incest in fandom is all that uncommon. I'm told that the vast majority of Numb3rs fics is incest slash, and there are a lot of incest fics in Harry Potter, too.

This was said a while ago. But people are already writing Numb3rs fics? I've barely even thought about romance in that show. And besides, I don't think we know enough about the characters yet. But im just rambling.

[Melyanna]

This was said a while ago. But people are already writing Numb3rs fics? I've barely even thought about romance in that show. And besides, I don't think we know enough about the characters yet. But im just rambling.

Crazy, huh? My dad, who watches the show because he's a mathematician himself, is shocked that the show is as popular as it is. He thinks that must have been the strangest pitch any network had ever heard.

...but it helps that the mathematician star is cuter than most mathematicians I've known.