Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

And now a quick question for you all...

I received a message from...shall we say a person not in favor of Sheppard and Weir or my 'take' on things. This person tells me emphatically that I'm pretty much full of horse manure (probably some truth to that) and that the only reason John flirts with Elizabeth so much is because he wants to use his charm to build her ego up so he can get his way. And in comparison, the only reason he flirts with another person so little openly is because he would never flirt and charm someone he has an inner torch burning for because he's terribly afraid that if he flirts with this other woman that she'll see his true inner feelings coming through.

Any thoughts on a response?

I think I went comatose reading it.

Oh and Welcome Firedust!!!! Enjoyed your first thoughts! Well done!

And sue me, I like polls. This one is decent because you can't stuff the box if for no other reason. Here's the link Ruined Puzzle posted earlier. Going on 300 votes now. Probably more 'no romos' at this point than shippers of any sort but that's about the case for every sci-fi / adventure show. Me? I want the whole burrito loaded-I think it tastes better.

http://www.misterpoll.com/results.mpl?id=3963710855

May I add welcome Firedust also. I always say the newbies add welcome new insights.

I picked up on the following from someone's summary of the commentary for Trinity

Spoiler:

Joe Flanigan didn’t like the argument in Weir’s office where Sheppard sided with Caldwell instead of with Weir like he usually does. Martin explained that Sheppard had to side with Caldwell because McKay had entrusted him (Sheppard) with the job of persuading Weir to let them go back.

Now I think this is interesting in light of the changes in the S/W dynamic. He is so tuned into the fact that they are no longer antagonists, that he doesn't want any conflict between the characters. I couldn't help it. For a moment I squeed a little. Just a tiny one.

Now Bama, to try and logically respond to your above query. *snortyeahrightsnort* First of all I don't understand why someone would react so strongly to your expression of your personal opinion that they would have to challenge you to this extent. Secondly, nobody ever challenges me. Maybe I'm not forceful enough. Anyhoo, first of all you should rejoice. They admitted that he does flirt with Elizabeth. Up until now we've been surrounded by the Weir- hating-she's-old-enough-to-be-his-mother crowd. Secondly, you can't argue with this kind of lack of thought and logic. I see SGA kind of like the Bible. *no disrespect intended* You can use it to prove just about anything. I can take screencaps and dialogue, assign motives and thoughts to the characters and prove that John and Rodney are in love. Believe me, it's being done on a daily basis on LJ. *shutter* I read an essay over there yesterday that I had to tell my husband about and we just about fell over laughing. *John really wants Weir dead.* There was proof. It was scary. So I go back to Granny's favorite saying: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It will just frustrate you and annoy the pig."

Oh, and I love polls too. The results on that one surprised even me. Noone can say it was stuffed by GW fans.

[hopalong]

Wow. Goes to show how out of it I was yesterday – it didn't occur to me that that was a typo. I just thought someone was channeling Douglas Adams or something.

I must admit, I had the same reaction... Now what does that say about us...

[hopalong]

Although, that wouldn't apply if someone chose to marry an Athosian.

*gasp!* Bite your tongue woman!

What? *looks innocent*. It's possible. And I wasn't referring to any of the main characters, btw. I firmly believe in Sparky.

Oh look ship poll, you guys know what to do
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....00&postcount=1

Now why in the world do they want to go asking a question that has such an obvious answer as that?

To end the eternal debate about who John belongs with? I agree with you about the obvious part, Bama. i took a look at the results. Sparky=82%...

[hopalong]

Welcome Firedust 22!

Sigh...good question. How in touch indeed? When two people 'feel' each other the way these two do, it's not a matter of what-just when.

And Cadman? I'm with you-I'm in her fan club. I actually would enjoy a little triangle action though with her and Carson and Rodney. I think she and Rodney spark in a really neat way. If the writers were smart, they'd build on that imo. She stands up to Rodney in the way few women will ever be able to. She also 'gets' him. I like that.

When I read that, my triangle thoughts weren't both McKay and Carson liking Laura. They were both Laura and McKay liking Carson! But that's a debate for another thread that I don't post at.

You know, I never thought about McKay/Laura, but it bears thinking about... Even if it never turns into a long term thing. She really knows how to get on his nerves.

On Critical Mass:

Spoiler:

I really liked the episode. Elizabeth was not at ease about making the decision to have Kavanaugh tortured. It really did look as though he was the culprit. Through reading spoilers here I knew that Caldwell was a Goa'uld host, and when I watched it I looked for hints that he was the one. I didn't find any, and I was really impressed with that.

And I agree that Elizabeth should have looked harder for other suspects. But with Kavanaugh acting the way he was... He really gives me the creeps.

Loved the re-emergance of whatshername's hiccups (mental blank on her name). I keep getting compared to her, 'cos I get the hiccups all the time!

I really loved how quick John responded when the Goa'uld was revealed. I loved the looks between him and Elizabeth. And I really loved how he knew just what to say to her. Although I wished he told her about Zelenka's paint job. That was something to see! But I loved how he realised that it wasn;t what she needed to hear at that point. They really are in tune.

I thought the subplot was handled well too. Carson seemed to care about Teyla, and I thought that was sweet. And yes, I think it's really telling that there was no scene where John offered his condolences to Teyla. Time constraints aside, it would not have looked out of place if such a scene was slipped in.

But the bit I will always remember (apart from the Sparky stuff) is how John went in to stop Kavanaugh's torture, found him on the ground, asked Ronon what he did to him... only to find out that Kavanaugh had just fainted! What a hoot!

This was the last episode that I've seen. I won't be able to join in any more ep discussions .


PS

May I add welcome Firedust also. I always say the newbies add welcome new insights.

I picked up on the following from someone's summary of the commentary for Trinity

Spoiler:

Joe Flanigan didn’t like the argument in Weir’s office where Sheppard sided with Caldwell instead of with Weir like he usually does. Martin explained that Sheppard had to side with Caldwell because McKay had entrusted him (Sheppard) with the job of persuading Weir to let them go back.

Now I think this is interesting in light of the changes in the S/W dynamic. He is so tuned into the fact that they are no longer antagonists, that he doesn't want any conflict between the characters. I couldn't help it. For a moment I squeed a little. Just a tiny one.

I always though that

Spoiler:

John siding with Caldwell was a military thing about needing defences.

Never really thought about it any other way *shrugs*

[Luz]

The hard part for the writers is getting them from the heart to the loins without making it come off cheap, tacky or contrived. I don't envy them the job and I'm going to try to not be so hard on them if they have a few missteps along the way.

I try not to be hard on tptb when it comes to ship, it's other things that worry me.
I don't think it'd be that hard, Shep/Weir are a class act, their budding romance has been building up really slowly, they've come from being on different sides, and a couple disagreements to being totally in synch with eachother and barely ever leaving eachother's side. It should continue to evolve, and somewhere on the road the next natural step will be to want to feel that physical closeness, in the end they've already connected everyother way.

And on the message, feel popular Bama, *lol* i got one of those too *roll eyes*, it's nothing worthy of wasting a second of your time over.

[FoolishPleasure]

And now a quick question for you all...

I received a message from...shall we say a person not in favor of Sheppard and Weir or my 'take' on things. This person tells me emphatically that I'm pretty much full of horse manure .. . .

Any thoughts on a response?

My stock answer is, {Mod Snip}

*can I say that here??*

[A.L.]

And now a quick question for you all...

I received a message from...shall we say a person not in favor of Sheppard and Weir or my 'take' on things. This person tells me emphatically that I'm pretty much full of horse manure (probably some truth to that) and that the only reason John flirts with Elizabeth so much is because he wants to use his charm to build her ego up so he can get his way. And in comparison, the only reason he flirts with another person so little openly is because he would never flirt and charm someone he has an inner torch burning for because he's terribly afraid that if he flirts with this other woman that she'll see his true inner feelings coming through.

Any thoughts on a response?

I think I went comatose reading it.

Okay, I think John does flirt quite a bit openly with this "other" person. To me it just falls flat, though. And there are many different kinds of flirting. I "flirt" with friends, and I "flirt" with guys I'm interested in but it's two different kinds. It's not that Shep doesn't flirt with one as much as the other it's just how it comes off in the end.

But the main thing - and this I believe should be the response in some form - is that this goes beyond flirting. He flirst with Lizzie lots to be sure but he also seeks her out all the time, and he's not ALWAYS trying to get his way from her. Sometimes he just wants to talk about how things turned out or offer her a shoulder to lean on when she gets too bogged down or look for a little reassurances as well. If we were debating on the likelyhood of a ship based on flirting alone, Shep would HAVE to be paired with everyone woman he's ever run into on the show. But it's not just the flirting. It's everything else that goes along with it. And that is why I think Sparky works as the SGA OTP (along with Ronon/Teyla of course. ).

AL

[Major_Moomin]

My stock answer is, {Mod Snip}

*can I say that here??*

I hope so because my I don't think I'd be able to use my answer here.

[Bama]

He is so tuned into the fact that they are no longer antagonists, that he doesn't want any conflict between the characters. I couldn't help it. For a moment I squeed a little. Just a tiny one.

Yes, that is interesting. I can see where Martin is coming from though. If you take away all the professional conflict, you weaken the dynamic and through disagreement comes understanding and compromise that often leads to the greatest accomplishments. Shep and Weir offer very different angles in solving the same problem at times and I would want to see them loose that edge and unique ability to produce the best solutions just to always get along. Besides, I think they rather enjoy sparring with each other verbally at times. I know I enjoy watching their eyes flash back and forth with that underlying passion and just plain enjoyment of each other that's always just beneath the surface.

So I go back to Granny's favorite saying: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It will just frustrate you and annoy the pig."

LMAO! I love old addages! My granny had a slew of them. I made the mistake of sparring with this person early on and ever since, I've had the delight off and on of getting messages full of anti-sparky pork. Now I usually just do what you suggest. I don't have time or patience to teach pigs to sing anyway.

Oh, and I love polls too. The results on that one surprised even me. Noone can say it was stuffed by GW fans

Did you see where the person responded on LJ with the mailing list numbers? That's astounding and pretty telling. I had guessed between 70-80 percent in my head but it actually may be more than that in reality as many of the older viewers aren't as 'net active' as you or I. A demo breakdown on this subject would be fascinating to see.

[Bama]

Okay, I think John does flirt quite a bit openly with this "other" person. To me it just falls flat, though. And there are many different kinds of flirting. I "flirt" with friends, and I "flirt" with guys I'm interested in but it's two different kinds. It's not that Shep doesn't flirt with one as much as the other it's just how it comes off in the end.

You know A.L. that's a good point and something I hadn't thought of. If you look back at the handful of conversations -especially from Season one- there are some attempts made with a bit of light flirting. However, it just seems off balance and out of sync and I like the word you used-flat. I don't know why it is but that couple on screen together comes across like they're bored silly in each other's presence. I don't really think there's an explanation for it. I don't even think it's my shipper bias coming out when I tell you that I enjoy the interactions between the two of them the least in that there's just so little natural chem there. John has more with many of the men. I really don't know what tptb were looking at when they thought a hook-up would be 'hot'. Looks are fine and good but they're just a starting point and only a small part of the process.

But the main thing - and this I believe should be the response in some form - is that this goes beyond flirting. He flirst with Lizzie lots to be sure but he also seeks her out all the time, and he's not ALWAYS trying to get his way from her. Sometimes he just wants to talk about how things turned out or offer her a shoulder to lean on when she gets too bogged down or look for a little reassurances as well. If we were debating on the likelyhood of a ship based on flirting alone, Shep would HAVE to be paired with everyone woman he's ever run into on the show. But it's not just the flirting. It's everything else that goes along with it. And that is why I think Sparky works as the SGA OTP (along with Ronon/Teyla of course. ).

Believe me when I tell you that I've pointed all this out in some manner or fashion to this person before but it's still a very excellent response and I love the way you phrased it. (Maybe I'll just do a cut and paste? )

That's so very obvious to many of us that pay attention isn't it? You spend time with those you enjoy being around. I think the thing that just mesmerizes me as much as anything is how very much they gravitate toward each other in every situation. From the little calm times like 'Intruder' or 'Siege 3' where they are obviously more relaxed and still casually relishing each other in a male-female way to the more intense times like in 'Conversion' or 'The Storm/ Eye' where they simply need to know the other is OK to the professional times like in 'Coup' or 'Siege' where they blend as one mind against their enemy to the support times like at the end of 'Tower' and 'Critical Mass'. It's just fabulous to watch two people naturally fall for each other the way these two have.

BTW, what is OTP? I've been wanting to ask and just forgot to.

I don't think it'd be that hard, Shep/Weir are a class act, their budding romance has been building up really slowly, they've come from being on different sides, and a couple disagreements to being totally in synch with eachother and barely ever leaving eachother's side. It should continue to evolve, and somewhere on the road the next natural step will be to want to feel that physical closeness, in the end they've already connected everyother way.

You know you're right. I don't think it could ever feel cheap now. If they jumped each other tommorow, I'd believe it was because they felt love for the other based on what constant evidence I've seen. Do I think they're ready for that big physical step yet? No. But I'd buy that their feelings for the other are of such a nature that I'd accept love as their answer. I've bought the cow and so have they. (Another olde granny reference there for you SR.)

[Southern Red]

BTW, what is OTP? I've been wanting to ask and just forgot to.

OTP=one true pairing Which they are. Forever and always.


There have been a shortage of pics lately. Just to remind us why we're here:

[SGLAB]

[snip] You can use it to prove just about anything. I can take screencaps and dialogue, assign motives and thoughts to the characters and prove that John and Rodney are in love. Believe me, it's being done on a daily basis on LJ. *shutter*[ and snip]

*Hides her Shep/Mckay, Shep/Weir plot bunny*

Speaking of John's flirting with Elizabeth. I find it's quite different in the way he flirts with Elizabeth than all the other women he's flirted with, including Teyla.

And about John being more open with Elizabeth, I think he is. Although I'd say he's still largely closed off. There have been times I've felt he's allowed something of his true self to slip out with her.

WElcome firedust.

[Southern Red]

Anybody ready for a smut muffin. I planned to make this little quickie *heh* longer, but I decided why not leave them wanting more. As requested by FP, hope it's cool where you are. No dirty talk, but you younguns be warned, your mamas won't approve.

http://www.sheppardweir.com/fanfics/...ry.php?sid=691

[gwenhwyfar]

Anybody ready for a smut muffin. I planned to make this little quickie *heh* longer, but I decided why not leave them wanting more. As requested by FP, hope it's cool where you are. No dirty talk, but you younguns be warned, your mamas won't approve.

http://www.sheppardweir.com/fanfics/...ry.php?sid=691

Southern... That was great!




I just have to say something. I got a review for a Sparky fic...from a Sheyla!! She liked it even though she is a diehard Sheyla!!! *dances around room*

[FoolishPleasure]

Anybody ready for a smut muffin. I planned to make this little quickie *heh* longer, but I decided why not leave them wanting more. As requested by FP, hope it's cool where you are. No dirty talk, but you younguns be warned, your mamas won't approve.

http://www.sheppardweir.com/fanfics/...ry.php?sid=691

It has been in the 90's here all week. You story fits right in with the steamy weather!