Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[gwenhwyfar]

Lessons.

This one was really good Melyanna! I loved it!

[Bama]

The talk of Elizabeth being taught to fight/defend by Ronon or Teyla? Have to say. I really hope not. I like that she's who she is. If she becomes kick butt like Teyla in a sense, then she loses something. IMO! I like that Elizabeth hasn't felt the need to be agressive that way. It's a part of what makes her unique. She can do other stuff as an outlet rather than learn self defense or stick fighting. So I really hope TPTB don't go that way.

Well...I obviously disagree and truly believe she badly needs a physical type outlet of some sorts to help cope and Atlantis is a very dangerous place compared to say 'mission control' where Landry resides. She's not exactly in diplomatic waters all the time here and when she is, those waters would tend to be more dangerous than on Earth. I look at it like this. Training for female self-defense just makes sense for every woman. I trained and I certainly know how to use my .22 MM that I carry in my car. That choice may not be right for everyone but it's right for me. However, in Elizabeth's case, it makes more sense that she learn to use her natural physical abilities to learn to help get herself out of some trouble she's in sometime. I don't think she'd like to be thought of as a simpering, helpless female liability out in the galaxy as she diplomatically wheels and deals with other worlds. The more she can help those around her protect her-the better in my view. That doesn't mean she'd have to turn into Teyla overnight. Heck, Teyla's been fighting most of her life to get to where she is. Basic self-defense could mean her life and/or the lives of some of the brave men and women that help protect her. It just makes sense.

And Merlin, since you don't like the idea-what instead would you suggest as a positive outlet for her in Atlantis? I really do think she needs one.

[Major_Moomin]

If I had to pick two of my fics to be played out on the show, it'd be Enigma and Lessons. Both of them have to do with Elizabeth in the gym and out of her element.

Enigma *sigh*...I loved that fic Mel! When Ronan whaps her hip as she's walking out and John just scowls *lol*

Mel...can you just quit your Job and write please??

...pretty please?

[Bama]

Enigma & Lessons.

I liked the second one particularly well. I could 'envision' that in my head. Bravo Mel! Extremely believable and well-written self-defense fic.

[gwenhwyfar]

Fic rec!

Don't Ever

[mentalmichael]

Enigma & Lessons.

Thank you! And I agree, both really good fics.

[FoolishPleasure]

The talk of Elizabeth being taught to fight/defend by Ronon or Teyla? Have to say. I really hope not. I like that she's who she is. If she becomes kick butt like Teyla in a sense, then she loses something. IMO! I like that Elizabeth hasn't felt the need to be agressive that way. It's a part of what makes her unique. She can do other stuff as an outlet rather than learn self defense or stick fighting. So I really hope TPTB don't go that way.

I tend to agree with you. We have Teyla and Ronon who can do the martial arts stuff, and John has a big gun ( ), so I really don't want to see Elizabeth kicking butt on a regular basis. It would be nice to see her "off hours", like working out in the gym or jogging to keep in shape, but I don't want her doing the Kali thing, or beating on anyone, even in training.

I like Liz as a diplomat, not as a soldier - same way I used to like Daniel as the geeky archeologist. Now that he can shoot any weapon and is the same as all the other soldiers, he has lost something fun as a character. I like having at least one of the main characters have that bit of innocence about them. That doesn't mean make Liz the "Mary Sue" person, as she can still be forceful and strong without using brute strength.

I guess I'm saying I want to see Liz be the brains (common sense-wise) of the group, while others can be the brawn or, as in the case of McKay, the scientific genius.

[GateByte]

I guess I'm saying I want to see Liz be the brains (common sense-wise) of the group, while others can be the brawn or, as in the case of McKay, the scientific genius.

Yeah, I think that's kind of what I'd like to see too. I mean, it's fine if they want to show her jogging, or doing something to blow off a little steam once in a while (showing she's human just like everyone else), but I don't want them to turn her into some sort of gun-weilding military leader. It just wouldn't be her, and IMO would be against her character of being the diplomat that she's known for being.

[astronomicalchick]

Enigma *sigh*...I loved that fic Mel! When Ronan whaps her hip as she's walking out and John just scowls *lol*

Mel...can you just quit your Job and write please??

...pretty please?

I've decided Mel must start her career as a v. famous novelist.

But I voted to Enigma in the Isis awards!

[Bama]

I tend to agree with you. We have Teyla and Ronon who can do the martial arts stuff, and John has a big gun ( ), so I really don't want to see Elizabeth kicking butt on a regular basis. It would be nice to see her "off hours", like working out in the gym or jogging to keep in shape, but I don't want her doing the Kali thing, or beating on anyone, even in training.

I like Liz as a diplomat, not as a soldier - same way I used to like Daniel as the geeky archeologist. Now that he can shoot any weapon and is the same as all the other soldiers, he has lost something fun as a character. I like having at least one of the main characters have that bit of innocence about them. That doesn't mean make Liz the "Mary Sue" person, as she can still be forceful and strong without using brute strength.

I guess I'm saying I want to see Liz be the brains (common sense-wise) of the group, while others can be the brawn or, as in the case of McKay, the scientific genius.

I 'get' the point of you guys...I truly do. However, when I look at Elizabeth at times I see 'cooped up' and I have to believe she feels that way. I think it doesn't even *have* to be self-defense as an outlet though to me that still makes logical sense given their ever dangerous circumstances. I certainly don't want her turning into some sort of military rambo or gun-totin Xena. She *is* different and like you guys, I love her for it. Her best talents lie with her brain and her mouth. But, that doesn't mean she can't work to make a weakness not so weak. John certainly doesn't stop reading and offering mental input just because he's first a soldier. Perhaps if we could just see her working to stay in the top fit shape she's certainly in by running or lifting weights or something similar, it would be enough to offer her that 'outlet' and get rid of that 'cooped up' feeling I get from her at times. Or, maybe she and John could just start scheduling Sunday afternoon joyrides in the jumper together.

[xfkirsten]

I'm somewhat in the middle on the fighting issue. I do think that she should get at least some basic training - like Bama said, she needs to have some way to protect herself if the situation should arise, because let's face it - our heroes are trouble magnets. However, I don't think she necessarily needs to be at the level of proficiency of Teyla or Ronon or even John. Just enough to at least try to defend herself! I think it would be pretty foolish to wander around the Pegasus galaxy assuming that her words alone could always get her out of trouble, and there may come a time when the team is not there to back her up or is unable to do so (for whatever reason).

[GateByte]

I 'get' the point of you guys...I truly do. However, when I look at Elizabeth at times I see 'cooped up' and I have to believe she feels that way.

She does tend to look cooped up doesn't she. I makes feel sorry for her. Like because she's the leader, she's not really part of the team. Which is so untrue. Without her, there would be no team. I think she's the glue that holds everything together. Well, her and John are the glue really.

Or, maybe she and John could just start scheduling Sunday afternoon joyrides in the jumper together.

Yeah, that or get the poor woman to go off world more. She seems so much happier when shes out with the team, working to solve a problem . Rather than being cooped up in her office staring at a computer screen.

However that last sentence describes me most of the time, but instead of an office, it's my room (I blame my major, computer science tends to put you in front a computer a lot ). Now I feel like poor cooped up Lizzie. *sigh*

[Bama]

I'm somewhat in the middle on the fighting issue. I do think that she should get at least some basic training - like Bama said, she needs to have some way to protect herself if the situation should arise, because let's face it - our heroes are trouble magnets. However, I don't think she necessarily needs to be at the level of proficiency of Teyla or Ronon or even John. Just enough to at least try to defend herself! I think it would be pretty foolish to wander around the Pegasus galaxy assuming that her words alone could always get her out of trouble, and there may come a time when the team is not there to back her up or is unable to do so (for whatever reason).

See, that's it. I just can't see Elizabeth not wanting to try her best to be her best in everyway she can be. She's no fool-she knows she's not going to be a professional soldier and doesn't want to be. It's not WHO she is. However, she will indeed find herself in some bad situations (already has a time or two) when there may not be an abundance of help around. I'd like her to be confident enough to at least *try* to fight rather than to be a lamb at the slaughter. Elizabeth Weir *is* a fighter within. She fights with her mind and wields her words as a sword but if she's learned something from this experience it's that sometimes words are not enough if the enemy is evil enough.

[FoolishPleasure]

I agree that Liz does need a way to "vent". Basic TaeKwonDo would be good for her to undertake as exercise and a way to pick up basic self-defense moves as well.

John should teach her.

[Major_Moomin]

I agree that Liz does need a way to "vent". Basic TaeKwonDo would be good for her to undertake as exercise and a way to pick up basic self-defense moves as well.

John should teach her.

*imagines Liz all sweaty, beating the crap out of a punch bag...with John holding it.*

*hehe*