Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[FoolishPleasure]

College people aren't educated? I'm crushed.

I'm going for the life's education thing. Something you really can't get in school. You just have to grow OLD to appreciate some things.

My hubby has a Masters degree. . .he is the most UNEDUCATED man on the planet. *LOL*

Oooh, hope he isn't peeking in here! *snicker*

[Catysg1]

Hi there ...I missed so many episodes that I haven't watched on tape yet so I don't think I can really join ..but if I was shipping I would do it for Sheppard /Weir ... I need to watch my missing episodes first .!!!don't know when that's gonna happen!!! ..soon hopefully ...I watched the siege 1 and 2 but missed everything after the defiant one until siege 1 ..so I have some catching up to do before I can talk ship
I liked Sheppard/Weir from the beginning and that was because of their maturity ....They are the right age to ship for them ..the chemistry is intense almost cheeky ...I really do not care much for Teyla ..but I'll give her a chance in my missing episodes .

So for now ..bye and I'll be back before long hopefully


Caty

[Athenaktt]

Hi everyone.
I’ve been lurking in this thread for a few weeks now and I’ve finally decided to join you.
First, I have to say this thread seems to be a really nice place, with serious discussions and fun as well

Welcome to the thread florence!

I'm going for the life's education thing. Something you really can't get in school. You just have to grow OLD to appreciate some things.

My hubby has a Masters degree. . .he is the most UNEDUCATED man on the planet. *LOL*

Oooh, hope he isn't peeking in here! *snicker*

LOL, your poor hubby. But I agree with you there. There are quite a feel people who have a Master's degree or PHD and they are clueless about the most simple logics of life.

[Kazan]

Hi everyone.
I’ve been lurking in this thread for a few weeks now and I’ve finally decided to join you.
First, I have to say this thread seems to be a really nice place, with serious discussions and fun as well

Hey Florence - WELCOME!!
I've seen you around in the Sam/Jack thread - I tend to lurk more than post over there - not because of what may or may not happen in S9 but for other thread related issues going on over there lately.
Anyway, enough of that really glad you've come over to join us as well!!

Lys is a really nice non shipper and she makes wonderful wallpapers, even shipper ones if you ask nicely

Don't worry - we like having everyone in this thread!!. I actually think its great that non shippers or shipper friends come play here too - its good to have people to debate with and who perhaps can give a different perspective.

On the question of who you tend to ship for. I think it can be to be based around a combination of who you either a) identify with, b) aspire to be like or c) are inspired by. That may be completely independant and in addition to any purely thunk factor which of course plays a part!! See for me (a straight woman) I identified with Weir first and foremost in lots of ways, and was really interested and intrigued by the character and where they would go with her. Independant to that I think JF/Sheppard is pretty hot but I also liked the hinted at hidden depths of the character, as Athena said, the hidden geek in him. So because I like the 2 characters separately, I guess I'm predisposed to shipping for them as a pair - does that make sense?
For me the interesting thing is the nature of their characters being so different yet I think that they complement each other so well and I'm really interested in how they interweave the dynamics of the two.
Re the Weir/Teyla
I tend to agree with with wizengamot about Elizabeth being portrayed as the emotionally strong one and Teyla being portrayed as the phyically strong one. Not that they are the only attributes to each character but its a good way to generalise one of the main differences. Actually, its something I'd really like TPTB to explore in much greater depth. We've only seen a few chinks in Elizabeths emotional armour during S1 and I'd love to see an exploration on that. Up til now shes been remarkably in control and not let her guard down despite facing enormous pressure, tension and experiencing loss. How does she cope with that? How does she let off steam and with whom? I'd love to see them add to the Teyla / Elizabeth friendship / camadarie they've touched on. Of course the shipper in me also would love to see Sheppard play a part in helping her both with emotional and physical comforting.
Anyway, enough rambling for now!!

[Kazan]

Hi there ...I missed so many episodes that I haven't watched on tape yet so I don't think I can really join ..but if I was shipping I would do it for Sheppard /Weir ... I need to watch my missing episodes first .!!!don't know when that's gonna happen!!! ..soon hopefully ...I watched the siege 1 and 2 but missed everything after the defiant one until siege 1 ..so I have some catching up to do before I can talk ship
I liked Sheppard/Weir from the beginning and that was because of their maturity ....They are the right age to ship for them ..the chemistry is intense almost cheeky ...I really do not care much for Teyla ..but I'll give her a chance in my missing episodes .

So for now ..bye and I'll be back before long hopefully


Caty

Hi Caty - really nice to see you here! I hope you have time to catch up on the eps you've missed and then come back soon to join in

[Lys]

I tend to agree with with wizengamot about Elizabeth being portrayed as the emotionally strong one and Teyla being portrayed as the phyically strong one. Not that they are the only attributes to each character but its a good way to generalise one of the main differences. Actually, its something I'd really like TPTB to explore in much greater depth. We've only seen a few chinks in Elizabeths emotional armour during S1 and I'd love to see an exploration on that. Up til now shes been remarkably in control and not let her guard down despite facing enormous pressure, tension and experiencing loss. How does she cope with that? How does she let off steam and with whom? I'd love to see them add to the Teyla / Elizabeth friendship / camadarie they've touched on. Of course the shipper in me also would love to see Sheppard play a part in helping her both with emotional and physical comforting.
Anyway, enough rambling for now!!

So far, Elizabeth hasn't leaved Atlantis. She's in a relative safe place and the main emotionnal pressure we experienced on her was on the Storm and the Eye. Both were great episodes but we didn't see the aftermath of this traumatic experience for Elizabeth. I'm not talking of an emotionnal breakdown there, but what she went through had surely an impact on her.
What I'd like to see is a little weakness from time to time shown by Elizabeth. Maybe in an experience off-base. I hope we'll have this in season 2. Strong characters are good for the show, but they're more human if they show some weaknesses.

[Kazan]

LOL, your poor hubby. But I agree with you there. There are quite a feel people who have a Master's degree or PHD and they are clueless about the most simple logics of life.

How true! You can have amazing intellect yet have the common sense of a gnat!!! Likewise, sometimes you can find people who have both but simply end up being boring know it alls
Thats whats I like about Elizabeth...she has the brains along with commonsense and practicality yet still remains natural and honest.
John I think hides his intellectual side beneath an ultra practical tough exterior - but we all know hes a softy really!!

[wizengamot]

So far, Elizabeth hasn't leaved Atlantis. She's in a relative safe place and the main emotionnal pressure we experienced on her was on the Storm and the Eye. Both were great episodes but we didn't see the aftermath of this traumatic experience for Elizabeth. I'm not talking of an emotionnal breakdown there, but what she went through had surely an impact on her.
What I'd like to see is a little weakness from time to time shown by Elizabeth. Maybe in an experience off-base. I hope we'll have this in season 2. Strong characters are good for the show, but they're more human if they show some weaknesses.

This is true but atleast we got "Are you alright?" "No." Which did kinda show that some things may be a little much for her and atleast she is willing to admit it (and to John, none other ) But I def. agree! I really want to start seeing the emotional consequences on all of the characters.

[smallgirl]

So far, Elizabeth hasn't leaved Atlantis. She's in a relative safe place and the main emotionnal pressure we experienced on her was on the Storm and the Eye. Both were great episodes but we didn't see the aftermath of this traumatic experience for Elizabeth. I'm not talking of an emotionnal breakdown there, but what she went through had surely an impact on her.
What I'd like to see is a little weakness from time to time shown by Elizabeth. Maybe in an experience off-base. I hope we'll have this in season 2. Strong characters are good for the show, but they're more human if they show some weaknesses.

I think we have seen quite a bit of weakness from Weir throughout the season, which is why she grew on me. You are right because she hasn't really been off base she doesn't end up in quite the same dangerous situations some of the others have. However quite a lot of things have happened in Atlantis. It isn't always safe, even there.

In terms of 'Rising', we always talk on the various 'Sheppard' threads about how he was thrown into a leadership role and had to deal with some huge problems straight away but I doubt Weir was quite prepared for what happened either. It was huge task for her to lead a large civilian/military expedition into an unknown galaxy. As soon as she gets there, she is faced with having to most likely abandon Atlantis for an unknown planet, losing her Military CO, finding out they face a deadly enemy that caused the Ancients to leave and that's all before she's had time to catch her breath, let alone unpack. She handled it well but at certain points she didn't exactly look to be brimming with confidence. She appeared very human.

At the start of the season she was shown to be uncertain about how to always handle things as a leader. She had to make some tough decisions and I liked that she didn't always appear to know the right answer straight away.
Like when Sheppard & Rodney came back from off world missions, like in 'Childhood's End', 'Poisoning the Well' and 'Underground' and Weir was faced with moral dilemas. Since then she has faced crises on Atlantis, like in Hot Zone, where she and Sheppard both revealed their weaknesses and strengths. As the season has progressed, I think we've seen Weir grow with confidence in her leadership role. During the Siege 1 & 2, she seemed very much in control, still very human, but more able to assert her authority.
Spoilers for Siege 2

Spoiler:

Sheppard told Everett that he needed Weir in the loop because she was so respected by everyone in Atlantis. I don't think he could have said that, or would have said that, at the start of the season. I don't think it's just because he's got to know her either BUT because Weir has proved herself and earned that respect from everyone.

I think more than anything that Weir has had to prove herself to herself. She may have only had to deal with physical whumping in Storm/Eye but she's been emotionally whumped since the very start. She is strong because she's come through the ordeals but she never made it look easy. Like with Sheppard in 'The Defiant One', his strength wasn't that he won but that he came very close to losing several times but survived.

[Melyanna]

Wow, some excellent posts since I signed off last night, and some new members! I'm really enjoying the discussion.

Both Teyla and Weir are independent woman who are leaders. But there is something about Weir that I'm more attracted too is her maturity in dealing with the situations she had been thrown with, while Teyla lacks the maturity that Weir has.

I'm not sure maturity is the right word here — perhaps experience? Teyla has spent her time leading a group of people with a common goal, survival. Elizabeth has spent her career trying to get people to find a common goal. She's much better at conflict resolution, whereas Teyla is pretty good at starting conflicts.

Just from the first season alone, you can see Weir change. The things she says in the season Finale are things that the Weir in the beginning of the beginning of the season would never have dreamed of saying. Which shows that Elizabeth is always willing to learn and adapt to a situation. She knows that what ever strategies that she would have used on Earth, no longer applied in the Pegasus Galaxy.

Major Fischer has actually talked about that a lot, and I'm planning to deal with it in some capacity in The Pacific Rim, once I can get John and Elizabeth out of the hotel room. Weir does have limits, however, such as a total unwillingness to take the ZPM from the planet of children. But I suspect that the biggest difference is that she now recognizes that sometimes you do have to fight to the death. Sometimes you do have to be willing to die, and to be a good leader, sometimes you have to be willing to let a good man die.

As for Sheppard, I usually have a thing for geeks, and though he may be a closeted geek. He still a geek, and I love him for that. Also for the fact that he's a great character and all of the above.

You mean like this?

[Melyanna]

But yes, def.! Weir seems more emotionally strong where Teyla is physically strong. Teyla is the "leader of her people" like Weir, but Teyla isn't really spending time with her people. Weir does all within and not within her power to put her people infront of herself. That's why I think Shepp/Weir works so much better. They both would rather see their people safe (on earth and Atlantis) then to really care about themselves. They know what needs to be done and know sacrifices need to be made. Even if Weir hates it, they normally end up seeing eye to eye. I think one example of the opposite between shep/teyla was Letters From Pegasus with the whole leave the people behind or not. I think Weir would eventually back Shepp up with his logic. While shep and weir think not only in the moment, but of the long term effects, teyla really can't get past that moment and those feelings.

We had a looooooooong discussion of this over in the Sheppard discussion thread immediately after Letters aired here in the States. What it boiled down to is that Teyla's priorities don't match up with Sheppard's, or probably Weir's. Sheppard and Weir both know that they must warn Earth, even if it's the last thing they do — especially if it's the last thing they do, as Elizabeth pointed out. Teyla's priorities are totally different, because she has lived out her life in a society motivated only by fear of the Wraith. She's yet to adapt to the idea that there's a greater cause than just surviving for the sake of surviving.

That episode also showed tremendous growth on Sheppard's part. Who among us thinks he would have tried to leave those people behind had he encountered the situation in the beginning of the season?

[Melyanna]

While Teyla and Weir are both in situations that bring them to deal with a lot of people, I see more Teyla as a trader, someone good to build commercial relationships and Weir is more the diplomat, the one bringing peace between several nations. I don't think it's a question of maturity that makes the difference between them, rather a question of job and responsability. You don't deal in the same way with trading partners and governments at war.

That's a very good point! It underscores a larger point that we've seen throughout the season, which is that Teyla doesn't look beyond the here and now, which is understandable, given the fact that her people have lived under constant threat of the Wraith for so long. But she's never seen a threat of this magnitude, so her old rules and ways of thinking can't apply. She's thinking on too small a scale.

[Lys]

That's a very good point! It underscores a larger point that we've seen throughout the season, which is that Teyla doesn't look beyond the here and now, which is understandable, given the fact that her people have lived under constant threat of the Wraith for so long. But she's never seen a threat of this magnitude, so her old rules and ways of thinking can't apply. She's thinking on too small a scale.

And that's why I think her character has a good potential in term of character development. She's in close contact with Elizabeth and can learn much by watching her. It would be very interesting to watch her coming from this small scale to see the bigger picture. I hope we'll have such development for her in season 2.

[Melyanna]

No need for words, everything is in the way they’re looking at each other. Did you notice they’re always looking for the other’s eyes even when they’re talking with other people, in conference room or in Weir’s office ? Yeah, of course you noticed, I’m in the right place to talk about this

I think the eye contact is one of the first things people notice about these two. Their interaction is very fun to watch, even when they're yelling at each other.

I know you’ll NEVER be a shipper (I’ve tried to convert her for a long time but it’s hopeless )

Well, we've had a few converts in here. Astro claims that Major Fischer and I brainwashed her...

[Melyanna]

What I have found is that it is mostly high school/college girls who are fans of Teyla. There are some guys, but they are young as well. Someone on another thread even pondered why the threads pertaining to Teyla were 90% girls.

Weir, on the other hand, seems to appeal to the more educated/mature crowd. Not necessarily more intelligent, but folks who just have more life experiences and who can identify with what Weir is going through and trying to accomplish.

Teyla does seem to appeal to the younger segment of the audience. Strangely, though, most of the guys I know who watch the show don't like her at all. It's like they want something other than a body to look at. Very odd.