Pro Shep/Weir Discussion - How will Season 4 effect Sparky SPOILERS for Season 4

[Suzotchka]

Yeah. Well I'm glad this thread's here because I have some concerns too. I was never accused of ruining anyone's Zen at least that I knew of , but I appreciate the place to talk about doubts, because I have em and they plague me

I'm hoping they're going to play it in such a way that, if Weir's not a primary boss-character anymore, that suddenly her and John will just feel different around each other. Like, they could very easily do a scene where John's asking her to lunch and they're both real awkward about it (John's ALWAYS awkward around her! ) and then she's like, "You know John, I'm not your boss anymore " with lifted eyebrows and John's like "HmMmmMmmMmm"

I think it's totally doable. Whether they'll see that and be smart or just piss her away though, is another question .

Let's say for example that Odyssey or something comes to assist them, I really hope Weir isn't evacuated for medical attention like semi-permanently. Anyone heard anything new about that spoiler image? Is it legit?

I hope that what screen time they do give her is not wasted. They have such chemistry. I don't want a 2 second scene between them.

I like your idea of Liz saying that she's not his boss anymore! That would be great! But at the same time, she belongs on Atlantis as it's leader.

As far as that image goes, it was posted on JM's blog, so I assume it's legit.

[Wormhole]

I think the image was legit, but I fear it’s from a scene before the ‘infirmary one that we no about .'

I’m glad this thread was started. Thanks Suz.

[Anuna]

Suz, this is a great idea for the thread!

Now, let me try to explain my point of view...

There is "realistic" side of me and there is "optimistic" side of me. (you can call that "realistic part" The Pessimist too). The Pessimist tends to think worse kinds of things, like Lizzie gone for good and off to LaLa Land (I like the way you call it). I don't trust that pic on JM's blog one bit. (remember what they said about Carson)

About Sheyla (eeeew), seriously, I don't see how could they pull that one out. There is like zero point one chemistry between Shep and Xena. There is lot more chemistry between Teyla and Ronon (Think Lost boys, or was it The Hive? That salad eating). There is a LOT more chemistry between John and Elizabeth.

Despite the "Unending" and Daniel/Vala; I still think that TPTB suck at shpis, and that they generally don't want them. If there is room for a little chemistry on screen, then they will allow the actors to pursue it. That's how we got most of those maginficant moments in various SG ships. (in fact my first SG ship was done by the actors, and not TPTB. It's Daniel and Janet, just in case you wonder. TPTB ruined it with "Heroes").

Back on topic, I can't really imagine Atlantis without Elizabeth. For me, she is the center character of the show, she sets the tone, she is the voice of reason and compassion. If she's of to LaLa Land ... ah well, I might stop watching. I don't care how good and gut wrenching stories they give us, killing off characters or sending them "away" isn't the way to make a show more interesting...

But there is that Optimist in me... and the Optimist says, forget the cannon (especially screwed up one) and enjoy the ship, the fannons... is't us who create the ship, and not TPTB. I don't count on them really.

Now I'm off to my little AU where "Heroes" and "Sunday" never happened, and Lizzie is fine and she is doing her job - running the Atlantis.

PS - sorry for possible spelling/grammar mistakes.

[peterl]

You're welcome! I hope people are made to feel welcome here

As I said, I am extremely concerned. We had Weir in almost 20 episodes in the past. And now we're only getting a handful. I wonder in what capacity Weir will be there and how she'll interact with John.

I have always though from the begining that there was great potential between Weir and Shep. Weir is very different from other stargate leaders in being both strong and feminine .

It does not look like we are ever going to see this developed .

[Anuna]

Strong and feminine - I love that about her. But there are lot of people who don't (I mean, don't like strong and feminine women who are leaders), because... it's still a man's world.

[atlantisnewbie06]

Strong and feminine - I love that about her. But there are lot of people who don't (I mean, don't like strong and feminine women who are leaders), because... it's still a man's world.

i TOTALLY agree w.u, Anuna cause the way she's running things on Atlantis is the way it should always have been in the real world and for reasons i dont understand...they aren't, and that bothers me alot cause it's nothing new when u see a woman walk in and decide "ok, im the new leader, i'm deciding what's what and there's not a damn* thing u can do about that!"

I feel that TPTB is completely ignoring the fact that women are extremely intellegent and that they have the ability to lead an army just as much as men do and Elizabeth brings that kind of leadership to Atlantis and Torri brings that to the character. i just feel that TPTB are somewhat macho in their decision to cut her out and stick her as a recurring role, but i dont know if that's true.

*pardon my language if the word "damn" isnt allowed to be used

[peterl]

i TOTALLY agree w.u, Anuna cause the way she's running things on Atlantis is the way it should always have been in the real world and for reasons i dont understand...they aren't, and that bothers me alot cause it's nothing new when u see a woman walk in and decide "ok, im the new leader, i'm deciding what's what and there's not a damn* thing u can do about that!"

I feel that TPTB is completely ignoring the fact that women are extremely intellegent and that they have the ability to lead an army just as much as men do and Elizabeth brings that kind of leadership to Atlantis and Torri brings that to the character. i just feel that TPTB are somewhat macho in their decision to cut her out and stick her as a recurring role, but i dont know if that's true.

*pardon my language if the word "damn" isnt allowed to be used

Not only is Dr Weir a different kind of leader she is also a civillian one and one who chooses force as a last option.
I think the TPTB do not know what to do with her (idiots)

[Suzotchka]

Back on topic, I can't really imagine Atlantis without Elizabeth. For me, she is the center character of the show, she sets the tone, she is the voice of reason and compassion. If she's of to LaLa Land ... ah well, I might stop watching. I don't care how good and gut wrenching stories they give us, killing off characters or sending them "away" isn't the way to make a show more interesting...

I can't imagine her not running Atlantis either. And just how is she going to fit into S4 given her recurring status. And just how will that effect (or is it affect? ) her relationship with John?

[cshawzye]

I’m a newer fan to the ship, and maybe not as invested as other are in how the upcoming changes will affect the relationship but it’s definitely something I’ve been thinking about. There are really two ways this thing could go. It could either be the best thing that ever happened to the ship or it could be the worst. Given the track record of the show I’m inclined to say things aren’t lining up well for Sheppard and Weir.

After what happened win First Strike I think there is real potential to bring them closer together...

Spoiler:

John would no doubt be concerned about Elizabeth after being hurt so badly. And any healing time for Liz could definitely bring them closer together. Though, it’s not likely that we’d ever get anything close to scenes that dealt with the interaction between the two of them while she was healing. Even so, it's definitely an area where he could help her heal, be an encouring shoulder ... that kind of thing.

Not only that but all the talk that went on in First Strike about who should lead Atlantis could lead to some great S/W scenes and moments as well. Especially if someone (Carter or not) else is brought in to replace Weir as the leader of Atlantis while she heals. How will he respond to that? Will we see scenes between Sheppard/Weir that deal with that. I don't know, I doubt it, but something like that could be used to bring them closer.

These are just two places where I see potential for the ship to thrive even through the changes that are being made.

The only thing is that, I can think of a million reasons how the changes could be good for the ship, but is that just me being optimistic? Probably. The big thing is that the changes mean less screen time for Liz and therefore, IMO, less time for any meaningful character/relationship building scenes. But I definitely hope that the optamistic side of me isn't let down and that we do get to continue to see a progression in this ship.

[ElessarUSMC]

I think John respects her so much because she's so strong, and he's a military man so he knows what it's like to carry the burden of Command. But I think it's one of those things where he knows that she must have her weak moments where she just wants to lean on someone else, and he wants to be there for her during them. But because she's been the head honcho... she hasn't been able to lean on anybody... even though she wants to lean on him!

I do so hope that, if it has to wait, perhaps after they've gotten out of immediate danger in the beginning of S4, that we'll see a great scene between them while she's recovering or right after she's recovered.

He has obviously been very concerned for her when she's been hurt, and went on a crazy rampage when he thought Kolya killed her. If he's not really really concerned for her and really shows his care for her when she comes to, it's going to be OOC and that's the fact of the matter.

Damn writers better hear me !

and girls... is elizabeth's flirtation more obvious to you guys? Cuz I swear every time she says something like "The beard is interesting..." she has this smirk on her face that just says she wants to drop and make out right there! hehehehe

[Trialia]

I'm not being optimistic because I have been severely disappointed by some things in canon that I've hoped for... better to have no hope and maybe, on the outside edge of possibility, be surprised in a good way, than to get another kick in the teeth from TPTB.

[cshawzye]

I think John respects her so much because she's so strong, and he's a military man so he knows what it's like to carry the burden of Command. But I think it's one of those things where he knows that she must have her weak moments where she just wants to lean on someone else, and he wants to be there for her during them. But because she's been the head honcho... she hasn't been able to lean on anybody... even though she wants to lean on him!

I agree. The level of respect between the two of them is so great. They, can in many ways, understand where the other is coming from simply because of that "burrden of command" that they each share. But yeah, definitely knowing that the other will go through moments of weakness could really strengthen their relationship. And once the dust has settled after the s4 opener hopefully we'll get to see some of that mutual respect and understanding of weakness and the humanity in each of them (aside from their rolls on Atlantis). I'm sure John could be there to support Elizabeth through what's next in terms of her position as leader of Atlantis and what's going on there. It definitely could be good.

But ...

It's difficult when TPTB don't make it easy to hope for good things from the show. There is a lot of potential in this ship (and even the show) for great things but of course once you've been kicked a few times it doesn't seem worth it to hope for anything to happen.

[ElessarUSMC]

I agree. The level of respect between the two of them is so great. They, can in many ways, understand where the other is coming from simply because of that "burrden of command" that they each share. But yeah, definitely knowing that the other will go through moments of weakness could really strengthen their relationship. And once the dust has settled after the s4 opener hopefully we'll get to see some of that mutual respect and understanding of weakness and the humanity in each of them (aside from their rolls on Atlantis). I'm sure John could be there to support Elizabeth through what's next in terms of her position as leader of Atlantis and what's going on there. It definitely could be good.

But ...

It's difficult when TPTB don't make it easy to hope for good things from the show. There is a lot of potential in this ship (and even the show) for great things but of course once you've been kicked a few times it doesn't seem worth it to hope for anything to happen.

Yeah, I personally thought (spoiler for Unending)

Spoiler:

that the Daniel/Vala ship developments in Unending were AMAZING, and so that just makes me take a step back and go ... Oh my god... they CAN do ship! THey just don't WANT to! The *******S!

I just wish they'd think a little more like RDM and realize it's not going to ruin the show. It doesn't have to " a soap opera " for people to have and show their real feelings. Star Trek fell into that trap of trying to make everybody perfect super-humans who could 100% separate business from pleasure and feelings from what "has to be done". People aren't like that all the time. And Stargate's supposed to be today, the modern world, not some super-enlightened era where nobody resembles a real, conflicted human being.

Conflicted human beings start to care for each other when they're in perilous circumstances by each other's side, and share a bond. That's what pisses me off about the way they shrug off ships. It's not realistic. Real people feel things and act on them. But that's enough of my little tirade

[cshawzye]

I just wish they'd think a little more like RDM and realize it's not going to ruin the show. It doesn't have to " a soap opera " for people to have and show their real feelings. Star Trek fell into that trap of trying to make everybody perfect super-humans who could 100% separate business from pleasure and feelings from what "has to be done". People aren't like that all the time. And Stargate's supposed to be today, the modern world, not some super-enlightened era where nobody resembles a real, conflicted human being.

Conflicted human beings start to care for each other when they're in perilous circumstances by each other's side, and share a bond. That's what pisses me off about the way they shrug off ships. It's not realistic. Real people feel things and act on them. But that's enough of my little tirade

Totally agreed! I don't think it can hurt the show to portray true and strong emotions beginning between two characters. Relationships are a real part of life and it can't just be ignored for the sake of a lot of action. It's so easy to relate to characters in emotional turmoil over things. And, yeah, it definitely doesn't have to go the route of the soap opera to be good. A subtle bit here, and bit there, if done well, can do just as much as smacking the viewer in the face with the relationship.

The problem is will they do it. Being in the power positions they are in Sheppard and Weir have so many reasons to come together. And when you're working so closely with someone and risking your life day in and day out things are going to happen and feelings are going to devlop, it's a fact of living.

In terms of the changes in season 4 I'm sure (if power levels of the characters change) than that would affect your relationship with someone. So if Weir's role in Atlantis changes her relationship with John is definitely going to change. But the question is how and in what direction? It could be the catalyst that jump-starts something between them. Especially if Sheppard thinks that Weir is being sidelined. (Spoilers for Misbegotten) ...

Spoiler:

Just look at the way he jumped to her defense in Misbegotten when Wolsey was on Atlantis digging into things and questioningher leadership. He obviously cares about her and values her role and he leadership in Atlantis.

After things like that i can't see him just sitting idly by as she is swept aside (if she is). I would think he would take some action, which in turn would be a good thing in terms of the ship. Then again, who knows.

[Irish Eyes]

(Spoilers for Misbegotten) ...

Spoiler:

Just look at the way he jumped to her defense in Misbegotten when Wolsey was on Atlantis digging into things and questioningher leadership. He obviously cares about her and values her role and he leadership in Atlantis.

After things like that i can't see him just sitting idly by as she is swept aside (if she is). I would think he would take some action, which in turn would be a good thing in terms of the ship. Then again, who knows.

You took the words right out of my mouth! I would love to see him (more Misbegotten)

Spoiler:

"defend her honor"

throughout season 4. And, shocker, I think that would qualify as continuity. A pattern has been set for this by both of them and it would be great to see it continue.

Of course, it would be much better if Elizabeth were around to actually see this...