Wraith Defenders Club

[Starry Waters]

Mobile Analytic Laboratory Probe. Todd is talking to one in this picture.

Spoiler:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l.../dsc007441.jpg

It's the motorised robot the Atlanteans use when they need to check a planet. They used it first before going to Atlantis, then when checking where the wraith had taken Col. Summers, Teyla and the others in "Rising II", again in "Hide and Seek" when they tried to lure the dark entity through the gate, and again in "The Seer" when they verified Todd's claim that a planet had been attacked by the replicators... You see the think I'm talking about?

Ah yes. It's also the probes they sent out in SG1, I think. Thanks both of you.

[MCH]

AAARRRGGHH!! Too many good points!!

Spoiler:

You could very well be right - Todd is only trying to make Sheppard do what he wants - trying to play to his compassionate side - while Sheppard is just going to be the soldier, and not the moral conscience of the galaxy. Wraith is wraith, human is human, soldier is soldier. It all makes sense. But, if I look at it on the surface, regardless of motivation, I still see it as a turning point for these two to finally understand each other, and where they stand in relation to one another. This was the test of their 'friendship', and I hope it will prove to have positive results.

This episode was like dance around compassion and duplicity, it involved the whole team you got the view from all of the team. Some people slated Ronan for just wanting to kill the Wraith, but at least he is honest. But the main characters in this is Todd and Shepherd.

Spoiler:

Shepherd is a deeply flawed man, somewhere in his life I get the impression something happened and he lost his reason to trust people. Yet he dos not like to leave team members behind, he will always try to get his team back.

Spoiler:

I could be wrong but I can think straight off one other situation where he rescued Todd when they found Todd bleeper going off.- cloning facility episode. They didn't have to go to find Todd but the team did and nobody left until all the team and Todd (he had to be pushed into staying) got out of the situation eventually. Shepherd like in Infection took the lead in this.

Shepherd has to look at each situation and deal with as he knows best and where relationships are concerned he seems to go round and round in circles while he try to make him mind up. Eventually he did the right thing and let Todd go to find a cure.

Das

Spoiler:

This thought also crossed my mind. However, I think Todd would have to be the one to give them the gate code to where he wanted to go, so I am hoping he had some control in this matter, and didn't just step out into empty space. If Sheppard was THAT callous, can you imagine the uproar?? I don't think they could afford to risk such a move.

The Writers are not that brave to do that kill off either Todd or Shepherd, they are too important to the show.

Das

Spoiler:

The compassion thing was pivotal. First, it did establish that Keller is compassionate toward the plight of Todd, and the Wraith - that's a good thing. Second, it linked compassion to saving lives. Sheppard does have a compassionate side, he just shows it in a different way, just as the tools he uses to save lives are different from those of a doctor.

In the end, you do see Sheppard's compassionate side. He is concerned over Todd's health - I love his little nervous inquiry into Todd's condition. He also perks up a bit when Woolsey says that he received his request (to set Todd free). Here you ARE seeing that Sheppard feels something for Todd - call it compassion, call it respect, call it something...but it was compassion on his part that set Todd free when, technically, it was a real danger to do so. He didn't set Todd free to repay a debt, or to keep him as an ally - those were excuses, and I think Todd knows it.

I think the only thing that will kill the relationship would be the death of one or both.
They can continue as they are, the yes we are friends or no we are not, or completely become friends- no tension there dull and boring.

Or they end up completely hating one another - remember Michael? and that would mean that eventually one would have to kill the other-no thank you for that situation.

It would be good if the writer could somewhere maybe before the end of season 5 or the movie that we get a scene where John Shepherd finally resolves his feelings about Todd, when Todd is there. To lay his trust issues to rest. But I'm not sure there is a SGA writer who could do justice to this. Maybe that is a story that only a fan could write....hint hint?

One thing I have noticed is this episode Infection has provoked alot of comments and feeling from us all....been very interesting reading everyone contributions. I have alot of fun.

GREENS ALL ROUND I think. Thank you MCH

[leksa]

Mobile Analytic Laboratory Probe. Todd is talking to one in this picture.

Spoiler:

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l.../dsc007441.jpg

O my! I thought that's just some of the backstage photo which has nothing to do with the real show.
I was convinced that actor just found some spot to get off his feet.

[MCH]

You can get good story with the science in it too. Just remember the giants of the SF, Clark, Assimov, etc...
Even Assimovs error with the positron brain is forgivable because of the fact when he did wrote the story not everything was known about that particle.
However, most of the errors I complain about in Stargate are made on the science which is well known today. (Hell, the evolution principle is discovered in 19th century!) And that's unforgivable.

UNfortuately SGA writers are no Clark or Asimov so no great writing. Shame they have lost an opportunity to produce not just a good show but a truely inventive show.

MCH

[Mariellelita]

Did any of the writers send out any spoilers or other info about the movie? Recent ones, anyway.

[Mariellelita]

UNfortuately SGA writers are no Clark or Asimov so no great writing. Shame they have lost an opportunity to produce not just a good show but a truely inventive show.

MCH

I think that the writers were afraid to be creative. Maybe from pressure to keep the show a certain way or bad advice to stick to a plot "formula". Maybe they thought that they would turn off viewers by adding more character depth, wraith/human interaction, drama, etc. and that they would be fired for it.If I was one of the writers, , stuff would have happened waaaay differently.

[dasNdanger]

You know, I just start to wonder about what that poor actor thinks when he's faced with the comments that he's so hot when he's under that costume.

I did saw his real-life photos and honestly, unless he has very interesting personality I would not even go out for a coffee with him.

Really busy - will just comment on this right now...

I'm not sure Chris is the sort to visit places like this. If he was concerned with self-promotion, and all, he would probably have a facebook thingy, or at least update his IMDb page (or have his agent do so). I'm guessing that he just doesn't get wrapped up in it all...he's a seasoned actor, and listening to too much feedback could - perhaps - be a bit overwhelming.

(I'm not sure how actors think, but if I heard something like, 'Wow, das has a great walk!' I just might end up over-exaggerating my walk because I think that's what fans want to see. Sometimes it's best for an actor to stay a bit oblivious to what works - that way he won't get stuck using the same elements in his characterizations, but instead explore new and different things.)

That said, appearance is a funny thing. I think Johnny Depp is the most beautiful man on the planet, but I'd kick him right outta bed in a heartbeat if a big green guy with extra nostrils on his face came a'callin'. So, there is beauty, and then...there is BEAUTY. Chris is quite a handsome man when he has that full mane of wavy hair, and a fuzzy face - like Halling, or his character in Blade Trinity. Very soft and cuddly...like a friendly ol' lion. When I first saw him bald in stills for Sanctuary...I was like - 'HAIR!! Where's the HAIR?!!' I really wasn't so sure I'd find him quite as attractive as Todd, or when he had that 'Halling' look. But 30 seconds into his performance in Sanctuary, and I was in love! He has wonderful eyes...and I'm a bit of an eye person. But it's not just that - it's when a person is animated you really get to see them, their entire personality and not just their outward appearance. Their mannerisms, their expressions - all come together to compliment the physical appearance. Chris' movements, his expressions...everything about the man...is very sexy. He just knows how to use his face and his body...and especially his hands...to make any character he portrays very attractive and appealing, no matter how evil they may be.

And yup...I'm a tad smitten.


das

[Sparrow_hawk]

Really busy - will just comment on this right now...

I'm not sure Chris is the sort to visit places like this. If he was concerned with self-promotion, and all, he would probably have a facebook thingy, or at least update his IMDb page (or have his agent do so). I'm guessing that he just doesn't get wrapped up in it all...he's a seasoned actor, and listening to too much feedback could - perhaps - be a bit overwhelming.

(I'm not sure how actors think, but if I heard something like, 'Wow, das has a great walk!' I just might end up over-exaggerating my walk because I think that's what fans want to see. Sometimes it's best for an actor to stay a bit oblivious to what works - that way he won't get stuck using the same elements in his characterizations, but instead explore new and different things.)

That said, appearance is a funny thing. I think Johnny Depp is the most beautiful man on the planet, but I'd kick him right outta bed in a heartbeat if a big green guy with extra nostrils on his face came a'callin'. So, there is beauty, and then...there is BEAUTY. Chris is quite a handsome man when he has that full mane of wavy hair, and a fuzzy face - like Halling, or his character in Blade Trinity. Very soft and cuddly...like a friendly ol' lion. When I first saw him bald in stills for Sanctuary...I was like - 'HAIR!! Where's the HAIR?!!' I really wasn't so sure I'd find him quite as attractive as Todd, or when he had that 'Halling' look. But 30 seconds into his performance in Sanctuary, and I was in love! He has wonderful eyes...and I'm a bit of an eye person. But it's not just that - it's when a person is animated you really get to see them, their entire personality and not just their outward appearance. Their mannerisms, their expressions - all come together to compliment the physical appearance. Chris' movements, his expressions...everything about the man...is very sexy. He just knows how to use his face and his body...and especially his hands...to make any character he portrays very attractive and appealing, no matter how evil they may be.

And yup...I'm a tad smitten.


das

Das, you are such a fangirl!

[Wraith Cake]

PROBABLY??!!! Wash your mouth out with soap, girl!! He IS the most interesting character in the show!

(everything else you said is spot on. )


das

hahahahaha

Well, of course you are correct.
Love Todd!

WK

[leksa]

Really busy - will just comment on this right now...

I'm not sure Chris is the sort to visit places like this. If he was concerned with self-promotion, and all, he would probably have a facebook thingy, or at least update his IMDb page (or have his agent do so). I'm guessing that he just doesn't get wrapped up in it all...he's a seasoned actor, and listening to too much feedback could - perhaps - be a bit overwhelming.

Girl, I believe that if we knew he reads this stuff too we would edit our comments more carefully.
Me included.
I was just asking people on other forum to try to find sort of semi-naked photo of his so that I can forward it to you artistic people to turn it into semi-naked Todd's photo!
Trust me that example would end up exactly next to the print out of your work on Steve, above my desk in my office!

That said, appearance is a funny thing. I think Johnny Depp is the most beautiful man on the planet, but I'd kick him right outta bed in a heartbeat if a big green guy with extra nostrils on his face came a'callin'. So, there is beauty, and then...there is BEAUTY. Chris is quite a handsome man when he has that full mane of wavy hair, and a fuzzy face - like Halling, or his character in Blade Trinity. Very soft and cuddly...like a friendly ol' lion. When I first saw him bald in stills for Sanctuary...I was like - 'HAIR!! Where's the HAIR?!!' I really wasn't so sure I'd find him quite as attractive as Todd, or when he had that 'Halling' look. But 30 seconds into his performance in Sanctuary, and I was in love! He has wonderful eyes...and I'm a bit of an eye person. But it's not just that - it's when a person is animated you really get to see them, their entire personality and not just their outward appearance. Their mannerisms, their expressions - all come together to compliment the physical appearance. Chris' movements, his expressions...everything about the man...is very sexy. He just knows how to use his face and his body...and especially his hands...to make any character he portrays very attractive and appealing, no matter how evil they may be.

And yup...I'm a tad smitten.


das

Now I'll start to watch Sanctuary too, just to see him there too.

I agree with you that glimpse of personality trough the gestures, expressions, mannerisms are exactly the things which makes man attractive.
I will turn around to see handsome man, but I would go on a date only with the guy who smites me with his personality. Regardless his actual physical attractiveness.

[MCH]

Really busy - will just comment on this right now...

Spoiler:

I'm not sure Chris is the sort to visit places like this. If he was concerned with self-promotion, and all, he would probably have a facebook thingy, or at least update his IMDb page (or have his agent do so). I'm guessing that he just doesn't get wrapped up in it all...he's a seasoned actor, and listening to too much feedback could - perhaps - be a bit overwhelming.

(I'm not sure how actors think, but if I heard something like, 'Wow, das has a great walk!' I just might end up over-exaggerating my walk because I think that's what fans want to see. Sometimes it's best for an actor to stay a bit oblivious to what works - that way he won't get stuck using the same elements in his characterizations, but instead explore new and different things.)

That said, appearance is a funny thing. I think Johnny Depp is the most beautiful man on the planet, but I'd kick him right outta bed in a heartbeat if a big green guy with extra nostrils on his face came a'callin'. So, there is beauty, and then...there is BEAUTY. Chris is quite a handsome man when he has that full mane of wavy hair, and a fuzzy face - like Halling, or his character in Blade Trinity. Very soft and cuddly...like a friendly ol' lion. When I first saw him bald in stills for Sanctuary...I was like - 'HAIR!! Where's the HAIR?!!' I really wasn't so sure I'd find him quite as attractive as Todd, or when he had that 'Halling' look. But 30 seconds into his performance in Sanctuary, and I was in love! He has wonderful eyes...and I'm a bit of an eye person. But it's not just that - it's when a person is animated you really get to see them, their entire personality and not just their outward appearance. Their mannerisms, their expressions - all come together to compliment the physical appearance. Chris' movements, his expressions...everything about the man...is very sexy. He just knows how to use his face and his body...and especially his hands...to make any character he portrays very attractive and appealing, no matter how evil they may be.

And yup...I'm a tad smitten.


das

Yeah you and me both, yup just a tad smitten

MCH

EDIT actually you, me.WK Laura Dove, and the list goes on........

[Wraith Cake]

I'm not sure can they? Apparently there are some coo-production laws which forbid them. Something about if they use the idea then they can be sued for part of the earnings or something. I did said several times that every idea I post on forums I consider it to be public and free for use by anyone. However, I do not know law enough to be sure that this clears them from any "obligations". But that's the reason why I never tried to contact them directly with my thoughts.

Leksa, I honestly believe writers do read fan fic. Of course there are laws, we are copy righted to the hilt in our society and this leads into the whole discussion on corporations milking the public indefinitely. I think a careful writer will not "directly copy". Also, there are so many science fiction narrative conventions which make it very difficult to truly call anything one's own anyway. Ultimately, writers get ideas where they get them. How else do writers write toward the fan base? --They look to see what we're writing.
I really seriously do not believe writers who say that they do not read fan fic.

WK

[Sparrow_hawk]

I don't think it was duplicity, for 2 reasons:

Spoiler:

First, we know we'll see Todd again in future episodes, and second, because the music at the end was the same than the end of "Common Ground". Because of "Common Ground", this music is associated with a positive relationship between Todd and Sheppard, so I suppose he was sincere. We "wrongly" had the Genii theme somewhere at the beginning of the episode, though, so the music may not be associated with what it is supposed to. Bu I don't think so.

Wow! I didn't even notice the background music. But thematic links, musical or otherwise can be important and I think the guy who does the SGA music would do something like that. The music is one of the things that I have always enjoyed about the show.

I wonder if (Enemy at the Gate musings/spoilers)

Spoiler:

they send the MALP to the same address where Todd went to find the Iratus Bug queen to contact him? Or if more time has passed and Todd is somewhere else and uses the MALP to contact the folks at Atlantis?

[masterling]

Anyway, just wanted to say hi y'all and I'm so glad I'm not the only one with *exotic* taste in men!!!

Warm wraithy welcome!!!

[post=9359214] I've read some excellent short sci-fi stories where the point of view was mirrored, without the reader knowing it before the end: The "bad guys" were humans, and the "heroes" alien.

Can you tell me where i might find these??? they sound intersting.

I did saw his real-life photos and honestly, unless he has very interesting personality I would not even go out for a coffee with him.

I watch sanctuary just for him. i would certainly have a cup o joe with him.

I was just asking people on other forum to try to find sort of semi-naked photo of his so that I can forward it to you artistic people to turn it into semi-naked Todd's photo!
Trust me that example would end up exactly next to the print out of your work on Steve, above my desk in my office!

Send me some good todd shots and i'll put the rest together and make a painting...... after the holidays

Just wanted to say that iv really enjoyed the discussions that have come about because of Infection. I usually dont add my thoughts because i suck at writing what i mean. But I have to say I completely agree with das’s explanation. As much as I hated the first ¾ of it (shep and co treatment of todd) I was happy with the ending. (and wasn’t as upset at the second watching)

To Das Sanctuary OT

Spoiler:

Didn’t care for it. BUT the viedo link with Hennery….awesome…..i love him.

[Wraith Cake]

On the other hand, if there is a conscious choice to act evil, then there is a full accountability, and the culprits can and should be punished.

I want to frame this as neutrally as possible--because obviously their is evil on both sides of the Atlantis bubble. What irks us more than anything else is the "self-righteousness" of the Earthers. The self sanctimonious attitude toward their own goodness that bothers most of us. And this approach we've taken to blame the Earthers is our "reading" of the story. Many viewers would say because the writers are the "gospel authority" on the writing of their own show, if they say the wraith are evil, then they are evil. However, we see it differently. We have a wraith centric view here.

Anyhow to address what you were saying

On the other hand, if there is a conscious choice to act evil, then there is a full accountability, and the culprits can and should be punished.

1/ they (the wraith) are conscious and 2/ they have the ability to stop i.e. they have advanced technology to develop another method.

Are they evil for needing to feed? Absolutely not.
Are they collectively guilty for not finding another solution--yes. It is the sin of "omission" so to speak.

Is it humanity's responsibility to help the wraith by developing an alternative solution?
Under Western penal law we are--in other words it has to do with being our brother's keeper.
Thus, under this context we must make sure the wraith are without excuse and have all options available to them to stop.

However, even by Todd's account the wraith would not be open to this solution.

The truth of the matter is not that the wraith do not have a responsibility to change, because they do; it is not that they lack the means to change even though their petulant refusal to do so jeopardizes not only our race but their own as well. The truth of the matter is that the wraith do *want* to change because they do not *believe* we are equals. Short and simple. And herein lines the evil.

Just as the human population is evil when they do not consider the wraith equal, and therefore often consider visiting a genocide upon them--which of course is evil. It must go both ways.

I know this is probably not what many on this forum want to hear, because we are after all the Wraith Defenders Club. Nonetheless, we cannot hate the Earthers "rightfully" if we do not address what the wraith themselves are doing.

If we assume the wraith willingly chose to feed on humans, then I see no problem in wiping them out.

So, you see by this logic, it's not whether or not they have had a choice to start, it is that they "now" have a choice to "stop". And yet will not.

Also to, in terms of "punishing" them by wiping them out this too would be equally evil, as we would be condemning an entire race of people by the actions of a few. Typically it is not the "drones" of society that have the means and the choice to change, but those who govern them--typically.

Finally, I could not see it in terms of "punishment" because this means "we" are in the seat of judgment. "We" are not any better. We would only wipe them out as a last resort because they need to be stopped at all costs (it is survival of the fittest), not because we have the "right" to condemn them, for actions we ourselves have done in the past to our own people.

To WK, I don't think absolute bad (or good) actions exist. Even child abuse is only forbidden worldwide because the UN is influenced by occidental morality. But it was common, and perfectly accepted, to marry a young girl to an adult man not so long ago.

I hear you. And I think I brought this argument up a few posts back--re:Ancient Japanese warriors had cadamites (young boys were their sexual slaves). I honestly do not think this ages old argument will ever be resolved. Meaning, is there such a thing as ethical "standards", or are all ethics "situational". The problem with ethics being situational is the slipperiness with which this view holds--no one is truly accountable for their actions because everything is situational, contextual or cultural. Many injustices are committed because of this, and ultimately it is circular reasoning. In that there must always be a base-line, or starting point from which all discussions like these must stem, for instance Sharia Law. Under our Ontario government, because the courts were backlogged, our gov. agreed to have some "family" issues settled culturally rather than take up precious time and resources in court. Many women from India, Pakistan and the Punjab vehemently petitioned against instituting it here in Canada. Sharia Law also includes female circumcision. Those who participate in this say it is cultural and correct under their law, the women who have suffered under it, on the other hand, say they had no choice or voice and their rights have been stripped away. Ultimately, what "I" mean when I say there must be ethical standards that are universal, I do not mean that they are arrived at easily or with out great thought and deliberation, yet still there must be some. In any event, this involves philosophy and would take more than a few posts to fully discuss it. But thank you for mentioning it.


WK

PS -- Laura, I have no idea why everything is underlined and in blue. I have to go have a bath now, feed my pookies and I'm off to bed. I have my temperamental grade twelves tomorrow. Ug! I'll change it tomorrow. Sorry