Wraith Defenders Club

[Wraith Cake]

OK, for a little Wraith humour:

With all the talk on Wraith telepathy do you wonder what their thoughts would be if they ever visit a bar or pub on Earth. Well I made a little picture with two Wraith sitting at a bar in any city on Earth. Enjoy

LS

I love your pic it's hilarious!

WK

[MCH]

Wraith cake

Clones simply do not have the same resilience to disease as non-cloned individuals and their genes degenerate a lot faster. They degenerate a lot faster because typically clones are cells derived from "adult" stem cells.

Hence the Wraith needing human "life force or essence ect" to prevent further degenerayion of their cells???? Yes?? Did the SGA writers do their science homework right from the start or not and they just go luckly?

Hum I think Das could be right the Wraith did get away from the writers and their scrambling around to keep up with the fans expectation.

Hi Wraith Cake notice it's you and me here again

[MCH]

Originally Posted by naamiaiset
gateworld took that picture down because it gives away the outcome of "broken ties".

third picture -
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...3-MGM-0006.jpg

Thank you for the picture certainly does seal Rhys fate. He will not be back unless his clone does.

One other theought the original template for the Wraith as mentioned in Alan interview on Gateworld, they may have need to feed off humans. But maybe not as much.
I'm probadely stating the obvious but:-
Could the increased feeding needs of the Wraith not only be due to inceased numbers of Wraith but also due to the quicker degeneration of their cells if they are cloned.

I forgot Liquid Sky I can't see the joke picture properly. If it's not my laptop how can I enlarge it?
It's OK I worked it out. Love it thats funny.

[Wraithworshipper]

I'm probadely stating the obvious but:-
Could the increased feeding needs of the Wraith not only be due to inceased numbers of Wraith but also due to the quicker degeneration of their cells if they are cloned?

Good thought. Hadn't occurred to me. Is possible. That may have been why the cloning facility and the new template were so important.

[Wraith Cake]

So Kar, I'm going to try to tackle your rebuttal now that it is the a.m. and I need to get to marking soon.

It doesn't really matter how you call it. What he did was making a copy of Beckett's mind. It's very similiar to the Asgard mind-transfer-process.

First: The wraith and cloning and Beckett being cloned bla bla bla

1/In theory clones can naturally reproduce. How often, how easily and how well is a matter of speculation. Being cloned does not mean being infertile. One has all the same parts, all the same functions the difference is that half one's life is over at birth. Meaning, clones are generally created from adult stem cells: cells that have already aged. It's the same as making a new cake with old milk, old eggs, old flour etc--new cake/old ingredients--won't stay fresh as long.

2/Beckett's head change. I won't mention his body, apart from his head, because it is clear he is a clone. His head, scientifically can't be cloned. We do have Cryogenic freezing of people's heads, but obviously Michael's "mind transfer" is a made up science that doesn't really have a real world example.

3/ Remember a mule or a liger or any other type of "hybrid" cannot reproduce, or rarely reproduce--mules can reproduce one out of twenty-five times (if my memory serves me correctly) but they give birth to a full species ie a horse or a donkey not more mules. A clone is not a hybrid. People often use the term "hybrid" in a loose sense when they are talking about an "unnatural" product, or a product that is not arrived at naturally. So Michael and Tayla hybrid of human and wraith means their genes were "changed" not "mixed" outside of the natural whoopee (sex).

Of course every clone could evolve differently after the cloning process. When they have different experiences. That would make them different "people" given enough time. But at the time of the cloning (including the mind-copy) they would be exact copies.

The human questions again--can't get away from it in sci fi discussions eh? Anyhow, cloned humans are human beings. For me how I define humanity is not by the product, but by the blue print.

1/I also keep this as a rule of thumb: for the most part we
as a species cannot create something that has not already occurred in nature. Nature creates clones--identical twins. Yes, they share the same DNA
Yes they have the same finger prints/toe prints
Yes they can have children.

The fingerprints have nothing to do with the DNA. The process of the building out of the lines is completly random. Hence it is almost impossible that there are two people with the same fingerprints. Way too many possible combinations.
I don't know if you're talking about a DNA-fingerprint here. That's a whole other thing.

What makes people individual is a combination of nature and nurture. So two children, identical twins (Susie and Sally), same finger print. Susie touches a hot iron when she's eight burns her finger tip, now she no longer shares the same finger tip pattern as her sister Sally, because Sally was not stupid enough to pick up a hot iron.

So yes, clones are individuals.

The faced wraith as clones: I'm hoping they are not cloned simply because people have so many hang ups, as we can see by our discussion, about what a clone is.

Conclusion: Clones are individuals who share the same DNA; no one can share the same life.

The most significant reason why I'm hoping the writers do not do this (make all the wraith clones) is from a dramatic device point of view and the fear factor.

In straight forward terms: in simple stories (usually children's stories) there are good guys and bad guys.
Good guys wear white hats,
bad guys wear black hats.
Good guys are suppose to triumph in the end and
bad guys are suppose to be punished.

But what if the good guy is *not always* good?
And what if the bad guy is actually cute, attractive, funny and behaves quite "good" at times? What type of story do we have then?

What if the monsters in our stories that eat people, torture children, burn down our homes and mutilate our pets do not have long sharp claws, or scales, or two heads and pus oozing out of every orifice?

What if these monsters are good-looking, attend our churches, garden on Saturdays, take their children and their wives to school and work. What if these monsters play with their sons on Sunday and walk their dogs in the park? What if these monsters look exactly like us?

Who are you more afraid of?
BTK or Sigourney Weaver's Alien
Alien, sure is frightening, but BTK for women anyway, is terrifying.

WK

[Wraith Cake]

Thank you for the picture certainly does seal Rhys fate. He will not be back unless his clone does.

One other theought the original template for the Wraith as mentioned in Alan interview on Gateworld, they may have need to feed off humans. But maybe not as much.
I'm probadely stating the obvious but:-
Could the increased feeding needs of the Wraith not only be due to inceased numbers of Wraith but also due to the quicker degeneration of their cells if they are cloned.

I forgot Liquid Sky I can't see the joke picture properly. If it's not my laptop how can I enlarge it?

I hope they're not cloned. Or that the writers at least delicately deal with this issue. This depresses me. Oh well, I've got to be off.



WK

[Wraith Cake]

Wraith cake


Hence the Wraith needing human "life force or essence ect" to prevent further degenerayion of their cells???? Yes?? Did the SGA writers do their science homework right from the start or not and they just go luckly?

Hum I think Das could be right the Wraith did get away from the writers and their scrambling around to keep up with the fans expectation.

Hi Wraith Cake notice it's you and me here again

I hope not. People have so many hang ups about clones and in truth the wraith are already so utterly different from us. The only thing, so far, that makes them similar to us is they are somewhat "humanoid" in their features. I want to see story lines where they are more like us, not less. Also, it decreases our ability to see them as complex, if they are carbon copies of one another. Oh well, I have no control over this. If I don't like what I see, I can just stop watching the show right? I am only one fan.

WK

[dasNdanger]

Quick comment on cloning. I made a comment on JM's blog - will condense it for here (btw - Wraith in a bar is hilarious!!).

I posted about wasp reproduction. Female wasps come from fertilized eggs, but males from unfertilized eggs. No mating necessary. In essence, male wasps are 'clones' in that no mating - or sperm - is involved. They are formed from the genetic material of the female, and because they are not fertilized, this determines their sex. That would mean that - perhaps - only queens are produced from an actual sexual union between a male and a female, which - given the small number of females - would suggest that the Wraith do not mate that often, and prefer the ease and detachment of cloning over more intimate mating practices.


das

[Karhedron]

@Liquidsky Love your Bar-Pic And post on. You make as interessting posts as anyone else. Don't doubt that one.

@Traveler Just hope we don't post too much so that others can still follow

@MCH Nice thought about the need of feeding to slow down the degeneration

@Das Yay. Go bugging JM


@Wraith Cake
Whatever the reason that student posted that response...It's just not true.
Identical twins never have identical fingerprints. The process where fingerprints are developed is completely random.


"The famous identity-swapping tricks played by twins have met their match. Sporting the same DNA, and thus matching physical features, identical twins can get away with duping friends and family. But when it comes to swindling more sophisticated identification tools, such as fingerprint testing, the carbon copies aren't so savvy. That's because genes don't tell the whole story of the corduroy-like surface adorning our fingertips. Instead, the fine details of ridges, valleys, and swirls that define our fingerprints are influenced by random stresses experienced in the womb. Even a slightly different umbilical cord length changes your paw print. And, so far the crime solvers haven't come across any two identical digits."

Source : http://www.livescience.com/mysteries...gerprints.html

Could find you many more sources. Fact is that this is part of what I learned for my work.
Although it is true that environmental sources (like wounds) can slightly alter fingerprints after they developed this is not always the case. Only severe wounds and the generation of scars can do such a thing. Shallow wounds like light burns will have no impact on the fingerprint pattern whatsoever. That is why fingerprints are used for identification.

Regarding the wraith-clones. The way Alan M. answered in the interview with Gateworld he was talking about the male non-masked wraith. He was talking about cloning and the fact that many actors play several wraiths. You would not see who is playing a Wraith when it is a masked one. So when he talked about "5-25" patterns for cloning he was talking about Steves and Bobs not the usual masked drone.

[Icarium]

Thanks to everyone

gateworld took that picture down because it gives away the outcome of "broken ties".

third picture -
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...3-MGM-0006.jpg

OMG, that's awful

Icarium

[Wraith Cake]

@Wraith Cake
Whatever the reason that student posted that response...It's just not true.

Remember the students was a MEDICAL STUDENT with a PHD. in S C I E N C E sssssscience Sssccciiiiiience.

Identical twins never have identical fingerprints. The process where fingerprints are developed is completely random.

Are you not well or are you pulling my leg?

Okay, just for the record everyone reading this
identical twins ARE "natural clones" This isn't a debate, gravity exists no?

The famous identity-swapping tricks played by twins have met their match. Sporting the same DNA, and thus matching physical features, identical twins can get away with duping friends and family. But when it comes to swindling more sophisticated identification tools, such as fingerprint testing, the carbon copies aren't so savvy. That's because genes don't tell the whole story of the corduroy-like surface adorning our fingertips. Instead, the fine details of ridges, valleys, and swirls that define our fingerprints are influenced by random stresses experienced in the womb. Even a slightly different umbilical cord length changes your paw print. And, so far the crime solvers haven't come across any two identical digits.

This is crrrraaaazzzy talk!!! JIVE talkin' Kar Kar

Source : http://www.livescience.com/mysteries...gerprints.html
Could find you many more sources. Fact is that this is part of what I learned for my work.
Although it is true that environmental sources (like wounds) can slightly alter fingerprints after they developed this is not always the case. Only severe wounds and the generation of scars can do such a thing. Shallow wounds like light burns will have no impact on the fingerprint pattern whatsoever. That is why fingerprints are used for identification.

And where do you work? Leo's lab for loo loos? (I'm totally teasing--ha ha ha ha ha) This is Science Shirlock

Regarding the wraith-clones. The way Alan M. answered in the interview with Gateworld he was talking about the male non-masked wraith. He was talking about cloning and the fact that many actors play several wraiths. You would not see who is playing a Wraith when it is a masked one. So when he talked about "5-25" patterns for cloning he was talking about Steves and Bobs not the usual masked drone.

I read the article and it was quite vague, intentionally so I would imagine. He didn't say anything about FACTS. Silly man.

You're just trying to tease me. I'm going to think up something funny for you. Tricky tricky Karhedron.

WK

[Wraithworshipper]

Wraith Cake!

Kar is a nurse! He knows medicine!

[Wraith Cake]

Quick comment on cloning. I made a comment on JM's blog - will condense it for here (btw - Wraith in a bar is hilarious!!).

I posted about wasp reproduction. Female wasps come from fertilized eggs, but males from unfertilized eggs. No mating necessary. In essence, male wasps are 'clones' in that no mating - or sperm - is involved. They are formed from the genetic material of the female, and because they are not fertilized, this determines their sex. That would mean that - perhaps - only queens are produced from an actual sexual union between a male and a female, which - given the small number of females - would suggest that the Wraith do not mate that often, and prefer the ease and detachment of cloning over more intimate mating practices.
das

Did you read what I responded back to you? I hope JM reads it I think our banter is quite amusing:
“dasNdanger writes
Actually…I’m going to say something that WK will hate me for…but…and it’s not unlike what happens in the insect world….Doesn’t make it unnatural, since something similar happens in the insect kingdom anyway….”

As for wraith being bug like in their anatomy this would mean:
Steve’s anis is next to his esophagus?— like mole weevils? Ass Breath Steve.
And the dark stuff: Bob wasn’t spitting blood—he was scheitting as Sheppard had ruptured his throat colon?

And do wraith whack the pony between their shoulder blades and lower back like African Bees?
Or chase the Queens with the big wraith mamba out of their belly button? And spit out of their feet and wear rib cage hats? (exo-skeletal?)

No, no. The wraith have bug benefits, but they’re nothing as simple as insects.

WK

[Karhedron]

Actually I learned that one during anatomy classes from Doctors of medicine. They were not studying they were done with that.
But if you want to make your own "science" that's okay for me. Won't bug you any more

[Wraith Cake]

Wraith Cake!

Kar is a nurse! He knows medicine!

Nurse of what? Moose on Alpine hill? (ha ha ha--I'm just joshin')
This isn't a debate, and besides it's easy information to find out. My sister's a doctor, a medical doctor. Deals with babies, twins--all the time.
Anyway, Deep breath in Deep breath out. I don't know what Kar's reading, but I'm just a messenger. You can just Wiki it. Or Uzzzze yo Google Foo.

WK