Wraith Defenders Club

[Shanthaia]

And where's everybody? It's weekend!

I'm just brooding on the fragility and perishability of everything.

I think wraith don't use metals or stone/ concrete to build stuff as they are so long lived and that stuff crumbles to dust after a few hundred years. Organic things if tended to and of the right specias can live for thousands of years. That would siut wraith better.

I aslo wonder if they have bonds, Todd shows us there are no real family bonds like we humans have in Millers crossing. But do the have friendships? They do have loality (The Seer) but what kind of bonds have wraith? If they have strong bonds how do they deal with loss? Humans are together for a few years and it hurts terribly to lose a frien´d or family member? How must that feel if you've known sombody for an eternity? Do they have ceremonies to burry people and to cope? Any thoughts...?

[GoSpikey]

Shall take it tomorrow on the other compo? Cos that's the decent one... Or did I put Todd on this one, too? Hmm...

Where you the one with the pretty Michael ones a month or so back? The English one that you switched over into a Latin one? That one ruled too!

Gah! I want to be able to do what you do, but I'm a) not good with photoshop, and b) not creative enough.

[Icarium]

Shall take it tomorrow on the other compo? Cos that's the decent one... Or did I put Todd on this one, too? Hmm...

Where you the one with the pretty Michael ones a month or so back? The English one that you switched over into a Latin one? That one ruled too!

Gah! I want to be able to do what you do, but I'm a) not good with photoshop, and b) not creative enough.

Michael's siggys made someone better than me , I still didn't figure out how to make such beautiful background

I'm still learning and I don't use photoshop. I think I start getting hooked You should give it a try, too

Icarium

[Risem]

Michael's siggys made someone better than me , I still didn't figure out how to make such beautiful background

I'm still learning and I don't use photoshop. I think I start getting hooked You should give it a try, too

Icarium

I love the sig! This queen's small cameo has made her so popular, she only had like a minute screen time!

[GoSpikey]

Michael's siggys made someone better than me , I still didn't figure out how to make such beautiful background

I'm still learning and I don't use photoshop. I think I start getting hooked You should give it a try, too

Icarium

I think Inanna made that pretty one? We haven't seen her in a while over here!

And of course Naami made the spiffy Todd ones!

[GoSpikey]

I love the sig! This queen's small cameo has made her so popular, she only had like a minute screen time!

And I hope that means the writers will see her popularity and they decide to bring her back!

[Traveler64]

I'm just brooding on the fragility and perishability of everything.


I aslo wonder if they have bonds, Todd shows us there are no real family bonds like we humans have in Millers crossing. But do the have friendships? They do have loality (The Seer) but what kind of bonds have wraith? If they have strong bonds how do they deal with loss? Humans are together for a few years and it hurts terribly to lose a frien´d or family member? How must that feel if you've known sombody for an eternity? Do they have ceremonies to burry people and to cope? Any thoughts...?

A very interesting point. And to add to it--I always wondered about that statement Todd makes to Shep in Common Ground after he restores his life--'the gift of life is for Wraith Worshipers (or something like that) and for OUR BROTHERS.' That statement has always struck me so unusual and so removed from anything we know about Wraiths--and like Todd says, there's much we don't know (or rather much the writers haven't written).

What thoughts do you have about 'our brothers?' Who are they? I don't think he meant biological brothers.

And BTW, I second that this has been a great, great discussion about Wraiths. (With the occasional, bracing bucket of water.)

[I think we should have our own greeting, like they have in Star Wars 'may the force be with you.' How about a mini competition to come up with the best one? That would be fun. Our own Wraith greeting. 'You always com around.'}

[GoSpikey]

*gutter*

Drop the 'around' and add a 'will' or ''ll' in there, and you got it.

Blame Peter DeLuise for this one! And the one who actually posted *that* bit of info.

[dasNdanger]

I aslo wonder if they have bonds, Todd shows us there are no real family bonds like we humans have in Millers crossing. But do the have friendships? They do have loality (The Seer) but what kind of bonds have wraith? If they have strong bonds how do they deal with loss? Humans are together for a few years and it hurts terribly to lose a frien´d or family member? How must that feel if you've known sombody for an eternity? Do they have ceremonies to burry people and to cope? Any thoughts...?

I think the Wraith have a different view of death than humans. They are hellbent on finding ways to survive (i.e.: Feed), but their personal views of death seem to vary. Todd, it seems, wants to live - he has on several occasions expressed concern over dying. But Wraith as a whole don't seem to fear death - they have self-destruction devices on their bodies, and will make kamakaze runs on an enemy.

As far as their own dead - they don't seem to have any ritual regarding the dead. Remember how Todd handled the 'clean up' in Kindred? He had his goons just drag the bodies out - probably to dump them somewhere. Just like an insect will remove the dead shell of one of their own from the nest without ceremony, I think the Wraith are the same. The dead body is useless waste, and simply needs to be discarded. I think to Wraith - dead is dead.


@ Traveler64 - I think, being from a hive - the Wraith see all as 'brothers'...all interrelated...a brotherhood. However, I doubt they have feelings towards one another like siblings have. In other words, I think the Wraith feel a camaraderie towards one another, but not 'love', per se (unless it's revealed otherwise).

I think this is why Todd seems a bit...fascinated...by the Lanteans. For the first time a Wraith is getting to know his food - REALLY know them...as individuals. Knows what drives them, what their relationships are like, what inspires them, what makes the happy, sad...what sort of jokes they like... To him, he probably feels like he's in a human zoo, learning firsthand what humans are really like.

Regarding Todd in the Genii prison - after reading all your comments, it dawned on me - Todd DID fight. How do we know? When he told Sheppard, 'your anger will only weaken you' - I'm sure he was speaking from experience. He probably fought like crazy to escape in the beginning, but found it only made him weaker, and soon learned to conserve his energy.

An interesting thing I learned from the SGA Season 1 Companion - there is an interview in there with James Lafazanos, and he's talking about The Defiant One (Greg) - and he says that Peter D. (director) really pushed him to portray Greg the way he did. He wanted him to be feral, wild...perhaps older than any Wraith we'd seen so far. He said that Wraith like Steve were younger, more refined, but Greg was old - older than 10,000 years - and Peter envisioned the Wraith back then to be less refined, and more animalistic and crude. (James also mentioned that he saw Bob as a sort of 'Dirty Harry' bounty hunter sort - the kind that has seen & done more than most Wraith ever have). Good insights from James.

Anyway - after hearing what he had to say about Greg, I got to thinking about Todd. He too has been around a long, long time - perhaps as old, if not older than, Greg. 10,000 years + - from the 'barbaric' Wraith age...when they were more animal, more feral. This might explain the way he acted in Common Ground, very feral and wild. But after returning to his kind, he seems to have adopted a more civilized manner. It may be that - left alone in the Genii prison - he regressed to what he was thousands of years ago. Once reunited with his kind - a younger post-Ancient War generation - he seems to have worked on his manners a bit, but without losing that 'rough around the edges' appeal that makes him a bit less refined than the likes of Steve, but not quite as primative as Greg.

As far as a Wraith greeting...hmmmm....how about:

You Always Come Around
Earth First
For My Hive, and My Hive Only
There is Much About Wraith You Do Not Know
There Can Be Only One

(I need more Steve quotes, and Shawn's, too...)


das

[TOIVA]

I got the impression with his 'so be it' he was prepared to fight his way out of there if he had to. I can't see Todd willingly scraficing himself to a queen. Other wraith may if they have been governed by a queen for millennia, but not Todd, he's his own wraith.

Well, I think he could "sacrifice" (well, if you're a prisonner...) to the queen only if no other possibility existed. Till then, he would try everything to escape.
If he actually was fed upon by that queen, I suppose he would come in with his head up, with honor, prepared to die.

[GoSpikey]

*Needs to look for Michael fics on FF.Net next*

*Eyes something funny*

A Strange Predicament » by night animal
Sheppard comes home and finds the deceased and pissed off Steve the Wraith on his bed. Before he knows it, they are literally stuck to each other. It's hard to say who's more unhappy about it. T for language. Ch 6 completely rewritten!

[Traveler64]

I think the Wraith have a different view of death than humans. They are hellbent on finding ways to survive (i.e.: Feed), but their personal views of death seem to vary. Todd, it seems, wants to live - he has on several occasions expressed concern over dying. But Wraith as a whole don't seem to fear death - they have self-destruction devices on their bodies, and will make kamakaze runs on an enemy.

As far as their own dead - they don't seem to have any ritual regarding the dead. Remember how Todd handled the 'clean up' in Kindred? He had his goons just drag the bodies out - probably to dump them somewhere. Just like an insect will remove the dead shell of one of their own from the nest without ceremony, I think the Wraith are the same. The dead body is useless waste, and simply needs to be discarded. I think to Wraith - dead is dead.


@ Traveler64 - I think, being from a hive - the Wraith see all as 'brothers'...all interrelated...a brotherhood. However, I doubt they have feelings towards one another like siblings have. In other words, I think the Wraith feel a camaraderie towards one another, but not 'love', per se (unless it's revealed otherwise).

I think this is why Todd seems a bit...fascinated...by the Lanteans. For the first time a Wraith is getting to know his food - REALLY know them...as individuals. Knows what drives them, what their relationships are like, what inspires them, what makes the happy, sad...what sort of jokes they like... To him, he probably feels like he's in a human zoo, learning firsthand what humans are really like.

Regarding Todd in the Genii prison - after reading all your comments, it dawned on me - Todd DID fight. How do we know? When he told Sheppard, 'your anger will only weaken you' - I'm sure he was speaking from experience. He probably fought like crazy to escape in the beginning, but found it only made him weaker, and soon learned to conserve his energy.

An interesting thing I learned from the SGA Season 1 Companion - there is an interview in there with James Lafazanos, and he's talking about The Defiant One (Greg) - and he says that Peter D. (director) really pushed him to portray Greg the way he did. He wanted him to be feral, wild...perhaps older than any Wraith we'd seen so far. He said that Wraith like Steve were younger, more refined, but Greg was old - older than 10,000 years - and Peter envisioned the Wraith back then to be less refined, and more animalistic and crude. (James also mentioned that he saw Bob as a sort of 'Dirty Harry' bounty hunter sort - the kind that has seen & done more than most Wraith ever have). Good insights from James.

Anyway - after hearing what he had to say about Greg, I got to thinking about Todd. He too has been around a long, long time - perhaps as old, if not older than, Greg. 10,000 years + - from the 'barbaric' Wraith age...when they were more animal, more feral. This might explain the way he acted in Common Ground, very feral and wild. But after returning to his kind, he seems to have adopted a more civilized manner. It may be that - left alone in the Genii prison - he regressed to what he was thousands of years ago. Once reunited with his kind - a younger post-Ancient War generation - he seems to have worked on his manners a bit, but without losing that 'rough around the edges' appeal that makes him a bit less refined than the likes of Steve, but not quite as primative as Greg.

As far as a Wraith greeting...hmmmm....how about:

You Always Come Around
Earth First
For My Hive, and My Hive Only
There is Much About Wraith You Do Not Know
There Can Be Only One

(I need more Steve quotes, and Shawn's, too...)


das

All very interesting points. I do agree that they have no 'brother/sibling' feelings. That's why I thought the 'brother' Todd talked about was of a higher rank, a brother borne of war, struggles and, well, saving each other's life, which incidentally, does not seem to be a much of a Wraith emotion. I do think that it was in his interaction with Shep that he even understood the concept of 'not leaving anyone behind', and saving each other, although he did seem have a good grasp of honoring deals, albeit not the expectation that anyone would.


I think he is till feral, or very dangerous, but he very intelligent, peraps brilliant by both Wraith and human standards and quite wise to have more than one face so to speak. I'm sure he can switch to feral very quickly. Did anyone notice how different was his personality when he was on his own ship, sending the darts to retrieve the ZPM's from the collapsing replicator city? Now, that was not OUR Todd anymore. He was a WRAITH not to be trifled with. The same in the prison in SOW when the other wraith came to take him to the Queen.


And I like 'FOR MY HIVE AND MY HIVE ALONE."

[naamiaiset]

As far as their own dead - they don't seem to have any ritual regarding the dead. Remember how Todd handled the 'clean up' in Kindred? He had his goons just drag the bodies out - probably to dump them somewhere. Just like an insect will remove the dead shell of one of their own from the nest without ceremony, I think the Wraith are the same. The dead body is useless waste, and simply needs to be discarded. I think to Wraith - dead is dead.

das

I agree, but I think a queen's death might be treated/viewed differently. maybe not so much ritual wise, but definitely retaliation wise. in spoils of war, after the queen was found dead and the alarm went off, team sheppard might've faced very angry wraith if they hadn't run.

and a greeting, how about "greetings from pegasus, hope to wraith you soon"

[Sparrow_hawk]

All very interesting points. I do agree that they have no 'brother/sibling' feelings. That's why I thought the 'brother' Todd talked about was of a higher rank, a brother borne of war, struggles and, well, saving each other's life, which incidentally, does not seem to be a much of a Wraith emotion. I do think that it was in his interaction with Shep that he even understood the concept of 'not leaving anyone behind', and saving each other, although he did seem have a good grasp of honoring deals, albeit not the expectation that anyone would.

Is stilll think they do have bonds with fellow Wraith, probably not an affection as we have for family members, but a loyalty like one would have for "brothers-in-arms" for members of their hive. I think Todd suffers from having been away so long from his own hive and lost some of the closeness that he had with them. He really has become an outsider. Maybe the hive-ship he lost in The Seer was the one he had been part of before he was taken by the Genii, so their loss hurt him badly.

I think the hive-ship he joined in the battle was one loyal to him, but not "close" hive-kin. So, although he was their commander, they weren't all that loyal to him.

And I think, in CG that Todd assumed that humans had no concept of honoring a deal with a non-human, so he expected them to kill him at their first opportunity.

I think he is till feral, or very dangerous, but he very intelligent, peraps brilliant by both Wraith and human standards and quite wise to have more than one face so to speak. I'm sure he can switch to feral very quickly. Did anyone notice how different was his personality when he was on his own ship, sending the darts to retrieve the ZPM's from the collapsing replicator city? Now, that was not OUR Todd anymore. He was a WRAITH not to be trifled with. The same in the prison in SOW when the other wraith came to take him to the Queen.

Yeah, Todd is awesome when he takes command. I like the feral and dangerous concept and the comparison with Greg. They are both ancient even by Wraith standards (and have the same bad Kabuki hair), but Todd is more adaptable. And he definitely was just about to put up a fight with those guards in SoW, and would have if Sheppard and crew hadn't walked in.

Are we searching for a motto? I'll have to think about that.

[dasNdanger]

All very interesting points. I do agree that they have no 'brother/sibling' feelings. That's why I thought the 'brother' Todd talked about was of a higher rank, a brother borne of war, struggles and, well, saving each other's life, which incidentally, does not seem to be a much of a Wraith emotion.

Yeah, exactly. We can take that idea and imagine that, in The Last Man, Todd looked upon Ronon as a 'brother' - matching strength for strength as they fought, and died, for the same cause.

I do think that it was in his interaction with Shep that he even understood the concept of 'not leaving anyone behind', and saving each other, although he did seem have a good grasp of honoring deals, albeit not the expectation that anyone would.

Yes, I think Sheppard taught Todd the concept of not leaving anyone behind - something that Todd actually fought against when Teyla insisted on waiting for the rest of the team in SoW. But I think he's also tried to use it to his advantage in that same episode, by activating his tracking device. Even though he's not one of them, he knows enough now about human psychology to know they will at least investigate such a signal. "I wasn't sure you'd come" indicates that he both activated it to summons them, but was still skeptical as to whether or not they would come. He's still trying to figure out the whole concept of looking out for one another.

And like I said before, I think Todd is enjoying the game of trying to figure humans out, and how best to use them to his advantage. Before Wraith concentrated on learning how humans fought, but Todd - he's trying to figure out how humans think.

Thing is, he tends to dismiss things that he has no concept of (Rodney's explanation about his feelings for his sister). I wonder if he even tried to understand that sort of relationship, or if he just filed it away with Rodney's other 'stories', like the one about getting an Ancient hyperdrive on line moments before him and his crew were incinerated by a super volcano.

I think he is till feral, or very dangerous, but he very intelligent, peraps brilliant by both Wraith and human standards and quite wise to have more than one face so to speak. I'm sure he can switch to feral very quickly. Did anyone notice how different was his personality when he was on his own ship, sending the darts to retrieve the ZPM's from the collapsing replicator city? Now, that was not OUR Todd anymore. He was a WRAITH not to be trifled with. The same in the prison in SOW when the other wraith came to take him to the Queen.

I LOVED seeing him in control, refusing to flinch in a moment of crisis, determined to gain his objective. WE'VE seen that - but the Lanteans...hmmmmmm...they haven't seen that side of him yet.

In fact, to them, Todd comes across as Mr. Negative. In so many episodes, the Lanteans have to remind him not to be so gloomy...

Shep: "Don't be so negative!"

Rodney: "That is quitter talk!"

There are other times, too...but those two stand out in my mind. It's like they are always giving HIM the pep talk. I wonder if it's a ploy, or just an indication of how totally he lost all hope during his years of captivity. Steve, Bob, Greg, Shawn - they were all very positive-minded Wraith. Penny Wraith in Midway was a bit more skeptical like Todd, and he got scolded for it.

And I like 'FOR MY HIVE AND MY HIVE ALONE."

Yeah - I'm leaning towards that one, too...

Interesting detail about Todd in BAMSR...not sure if it was done on purpose, or not...but....

Did anyone else notice that when Todd woke Sheppard up in the jumper, he did so with his non-feeding hand? I thought that was a nice touch, a suggestion of trust (or wisdom on Todd's part), and a sign of non-aggression . Only thing missing from that scene was Ronon's reaction to Todd waking him up... I wonder if he tried to go after Todd, and Shep had to step in. Oh, I can just hear him ranting about it now! Probably why Shep had to tell him to 'let it go' - dang - it would have been a great moment to see!


das