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**dasNdanger** · 11 December 2008, 09:50 PM

A thought on Mallozzi's comment:

"We’re two-thirds of the way through and now all we have to do is figure a way out of this fine mess. Lots of fun cameos and a major contribution from one recurring player in particular that is certain to have at least one fandom faction in a frenzy. Still in the process of working out that momentous shift in the status quo that will impact the lives of our characters."

I'll put this in spoilers - not because it spoils anything (it's only speculation on my part) - but because it IS just wild speculation, and I don't want it to get hopes up or anything...

Spoiler:

Okay...Mallozzi has suggested eariler that a 'flowing-locked pallid one' would make an appearance in the movie, and here he says that there will be a major contribution by a recurring character that - obviously - has a fan following. A fan following that tends to get in a frenzy. I don't see that being Carson fans, since - really - they are not that passionate a bunch. Todd is the only recurring charcter that stirs people up, so I am hoping it WILL be him.

So, for the sake of argument, let's say Mallozzi is referring to Todd.

He next says that they are "working out that momentous shift in the status quo that will impact the lives of our characters." Hmm.

THAT - not 'A' momentous shift. Hmm. Is he referring to the above 'major contribution by a recurring character'? If so...then it suggests that the momentous shift in the status quo might involve Todd.

Well, what is the 'status quo'? The status quo is that the Lanteans fight and kill Wraith. If Todd became an 'enemy' to the team, how would that be a momentous shift? He already is an enemy. They already fight against him and his kind. There would be no impact on the lives of the regular characters.

But, what if - and this is a HUGE IF - what if Todd joined the team? Well, THAT would be a momentous shift in the status quo that would impact the lives of the characters. Ronon on the team with a Wraith? Teyla, even? It's one thing to wheel and deal with the guy - but to sit down and break bread with the fella who may have eaten some of your relatives at one time or another? Might be hard to swallow. And Sheppard...despite his tolerance of Todd, we know he hates Wraith in general. Not really sure how McKay and Keller would react - I actually see them as the most accepting. But it still would certainly impact on all their lives if suddenly their teammate was a Wraith.

That said - the momentous shift could be anything - it could be the defeat of the Wraith and the Lanteans reactions over it. It could be a re-emergence of the Wraith as the dominant race and an even more deadly threat, with Todd as their leader - which would certainly impact them all.

It could be anything...but - now that the series is over - it would certainly be safe for them to make Todd part of the team, since they wouldn't have to worry about the financial impact of adding another regular to the weekly series.

So...If things go well for Todd at the end of the season...I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that things go well for him in the movie, if he's the recurring character Mallozzi is talking about.

das

**chocolate_muffin** · 11 December 2008, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by Wraith Cake View Post

What the wraith have done, over thousands of years is evil. Their genocide, their burning of villages and destroying of families, their sacking whole cultures for the sake of their food intake which they could remedy and should remedy for their own sake, is nothing short of evil.

I have to say I disagree with you on this one. Who's to say wraith don't have the same prejudice against cloned meat or gene-manipulated foods that us humans seem to have? It does not seem to me that they are going about pillaging and killing just because they can - unlike the Goa'uld (or humans) but rather because they prefer to eat well and making sure the 'wildlife' grows in an orderly fashion and doesn't challenge them too much.

Ideally yes, they ought to stop it and grow their own produce, which isn't sentient. I just have to ask, how is what they are doing different from the many people who prefer the taste and ideology of free-range meat and game?

**StarOcean** · 11 December 2008, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

I'll put this in spoilers - not because it spoils anything (it's only speculation on my part) - but because it IS just wild speculation, and I don't want it to get hopes up or anything...

Spoiler:

My reply, which has Enemy At The Gate spoiler...

Spoiler:

**Ashimjara** · 12 December 2008, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by StarOcean View Post

My reply, which has Enemy At The Gate spoiler...

Spoiler:

Yes I was wondering about EATG, what if:

Spoiler:

**Todd's Pet** · 12 December 2008, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

A thought on Mallozzi's comment:

"We’re two-thirds of the way through and now all we have to do is figure a way out of this fine mess. Lots of fun cameos and a major contribution from one recurring player in particular that is certain to have at least one fandom faction in a frenzy. Still in the process of working out that momentous shift in the status quo that will impact the lives of our characters."

I'll put this in spoilers - not because it spoils anything (it's only speculation on my part) - but because it IS just wild speculation, and I don't want it to get hopes up or anything...

Spoiler:

Okay...Mallozzi has suggested eariler that a 'flowing-locked pallid one' would make an appearance in the movie, and here he says that there will be a major contribution by a recurring character that - obviously - has a fan following. A fan following that tends to get in a frenzy. I don't see that being Carson fans, since - really - they are not that passionate a bunch. Todd is the only recurring charcter that stirs people up, so I am hoping it WILL be him.

So, for the sake of argument, let's say Mallozzi is referring to Todd.

He next says that they are "working out that momentous shift in the status quo that will impact the lives of our characters." Hmm.

THAT - not 'A' momentous shift. Hmm. Is he referring to the above 'major contribution by a recurring character'? If so...then it suggests that the momentous shift in the status quo might involve Todd.

Well, what is the 'status quo'? The status quo is that the Lanteans fight and kill Wraith. If Todd became an 'enemy' to the team, how would that be a momentous shift? He already is an enemy. They already fight against him and his kind. There would be no impact on the lives of the regular characters.

But, what if - and this is a HUGE IF - what if Todd joined the team? Well, THAT would be a momentous shift in the status quo that would impact the lives of the characters. Ronon on the team with a Wraith? Teyla, even? It's one thing to wheel and deal with the guy - but to sit down and break bread with the fella who may have eaten some of your relatives at one time or another? Might be hard to swallow. And Sheppard...despite his tolerance of Todd, we know he hates Wraith in general. Not really sure how McKay and Keller would react - I actually see them as the most accepting. But it still would certainly impact on all their lives if suddenly their teammate was a Wraith.

That said - the momentous shift could be anything - it could be the defeat of the Wraith and the Lanteans reactions over it. It could be a re-emergence of the Wraith as the dominant race and an even more deadly threat, with Todd as their leader - which would certainly impact them all.

It could be anything...but - now that the series is over - it would certainly be safe for them to make Todd part of the team, since they wouldn't have to worry about the financial impact of adding another regular to the weekly series.

So...If things go well for Todd at the end of the season...I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that things go well for him in the movie, if he's the recurring character Mallozzi is talking about.

das

That thought had occurred to me as well...

Spoiler:

**Todds worshipper** · 12 December 2008, 03:40 AM

I'm so sorry for the multi quotes guys, but I just read through 70 of your most recent posts...catching up. Boy did I miss out on some laughs or what?

Originally posted by GoSpikey View Post

Have you guys seen this yet?
From: http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/

No Spikey, thanks for showing me. I'd been snowed under for the last few nights capping (317 to show for it

) and the voting to get my posts up to 1000, I want that Todd avatar

I haven't even had time to read Mallozzi's blog lately. The last one I read was the video of the electronic toilet in Japan. That was most amusing

I got shivers down my spine reading that snippet about the SGA movie. I'm positive he's talking about Todd and it sounds like he has good plans for him, something that'll make us happy! I hope

I did plead for Todd enough times on his blog, I might have to start doing it again. I've been deliberately avoiding his blog actually, since Infection. I knew that if I went there I'd be too tempted to let loose about their treatment of Todd

Originally posted by MyFavoriteWraith View Post

Thanks for the caps, TW! I love Todd's face in the last pic on your signature. Meanwhile, I couldn't resist...

Spoiler:

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

Okay - for some reason, I read that and got this mental image of Todd (MY APOLOGIES to Todd, Chris, the Wraith, and Wraith Defenders everywhere!):

Spoiler:

das

These two photo's you guys did were hillarious! Great stuff! Thanks

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

A thought on Mallozzi's comment:

"We’re two-thirds of the way through and now all we have to do is figure a way out of this fine mess. Lots of fun cameos and a major contribution from one recurring player in particular that is certain to have at least one fandom faction in a frenzy. Still in the process of working out that momentous shift in the status quo that will impact the lives of our characters."
I'll put this in spoilers - not because it spoils anything (it's only speculation on my part) - but because it IS just wild speculation, and I don't want it to get hopes up or anything...

Spoiler:

Okay...Mallozzi has suggested eariler that a 'flowing-locked pallid one' would make an appearance in the movie, and here he says that there will be a major contribution by a recurring character that - obviously - has a fan following. A fan following that tends to get in a frenzy. I don't see that being Carson fans, since - really - they are not that passionate a bunch. Todd is the only recurring charcter that stirs people up, so I am hoping it WILL be him.
So, for the sake of argument, let's say Mallozzi is referring to Todd.

He next says that they are "working out that momentous shift in the status quo that will impact the lives of our characters." Hmm.
THAT - not 'A' momentous shift. Hmm. Is he referring to the above 'major contribution by a recurring character'? If so...then it suggests that the momentous shift in the status quo might involve Todd.
Well, what is the 'status quo'? The status quo is that the Lanteans fight and kill Wraith. If Todd became an 'enemy' to the team, how would that be a momentous shift? He already is an enemy. They already fight against him and his kind. There would be no impact on the lives of the regular characters.
But, what if - and this is a HUGE IF - what if Todd joined the team? Well, THAT would be a momentous shift in the status quo that would impact the lives of the characters. Ronon on the team with a Wraith? Teyla, even? It's one thing to wheel and deal with the guy - but to sit down and break bread with the fella who may have eaten some of your relatives at one time or another? Might be hard to swallow. And Sheppard...despite his tolerance of Todd, we know he hates Wraith in general. Not really sure how McKay and Keller would react - I actually see them as the most accepting. But it still would certainly impact on all their lives if suddenly their teammate was a Wraith.
That said - the momentous shift could be anything - it could be the defeat of the Wraith and the Lanteans reactions over it. It could be a re-emergence of the Wraith as the dominant race and an even more deadly threat, with Todd as their leader - which would certainly impact them all.
It could be anything...but - now that the series is over - it would certainly be safe for them to make Todd part of the team, since they wouldn't have to worry about the financial impact of adding another regular to the weekly series.
So...If things go well for Todd at the end of the season...I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that things go well for him in the movie, if he's the recurring character Mallozzi is talking about.

das

I'm hoping for the same things, Todd will get his dignity back and will finally receive the respect that he has earned. Becoming part of the team would be cool but I'm not sure how that'd work. Someone likened Sheppard and Todd to circling tigers. That wouldn't go down to well on the same team. But I'd love to see it amyway

What if the change in status quo is the wraith not being a threat anymore and Todd becoming, like what was said before by someone wonderful, that Todd will then become the Supreme Commander of all the friendly wraith in the galaxy. But that'd be too lovey-dovey and wouldn't involve enough deaths, massacres, insults and destruction for the way SGA has been heading lately.

Originally posted by chocolate_muffin View Post

I have to say I disagree with you on this one. Who's to say wraith don't have the same prejudice against cloned meat or gene-manipulated foods that us humans seem to have? It does not seem to me that they are going about pillaging and killing just because they can - unlike the Goa'uld (or humans) but rather because they prefer to eat well and making sure the 'wildlife' grows in an orderly fashion and doesn't challenge them too much.

Ideally yes, they ought to stop it and grow their own produce, which isn't sentient. I just have to ask, how is what they are doing different from the many people who prefer the taste and ideology of free-range meat and game?

Hi Chocolate Muffin...nice to meet you

Originally posted by Ashimjara View Post

Yes I was wondering about EATG, what if:

Spoiler:

Das did say that Kenny would be called "One who is not on that ship". Maybe that's true and he wasn't on the ship in Infection. He could have already betrayed Todd after the Daedelus incident and taken off with the stolen data. That might also explain why Todd rushed ahead with the treatment?

**Todd's Pet** · 12 December 2008, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by MCH View Post

Ahhhhh, ohhhhh, *Grapes Of Wraith*....ohhhhh.....ahhhhhh ...... here only a few days she sure is fitting in well.

MCH

Thank you, thank you!
It's easy to fit in with a bunch of like-minded Wraith Worshippers with such a cool sense of humour!

**Ashimjara** · 12 December 2008, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by Todds worshipper View Post

Das did say that Kenny would be could "One who is not on that ship". Maybe that's true and he wasn't on the ship in Infection. He could have already betrayed Todd after the Daedelus incident and taken off with the stolen data. That might also explain why Todd rushed ahead with the treatment?

Yes that makes sense, I don't think Kenny approved of Todd's interaction with humans, and he also knew of Todd's subterfuge in taking over the alliance with a fake queen. These facts may have lead him to question his leader's integrity and ultimately betray him.

And - yes Todd does wear an earring, I think Das has mentioned it in some of her posts.

**dasNdanger** · 12 December 2008, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by StarOcean View Post

My reply, which has Enemy At The Gate spoiler...

Spoiler:

das

**Laura Dove** · 12 December 2008, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

if he's still cranky-one-minute-joking-the-next bi-polar Todd, then I think we'd love him no matter what.

So well said! That's exactly the Todd I'm in love with, the cranky-one-minute-joking-the-next bi-polar Todd. I love your expression!

Spoiler:

Yeah, I fear that too.

**JadedWraith** · 12 December 2008, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

Spoiler:

das

Spoiler:

**Laura Dove** · 12 December 2008, 05:37 AM

You love Michael, even when he doesn't look like a wraith? Try this, but don't wait long or it'll be too late.

**Todd's Pet** · 12 December 2008, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post

Spoiler:

das

Yeah, I love the bi-polar Todd and I love it even more when Chris plays him cunning rather than meek. Todd is a survivor and will do what he needs to to survive, but he's nobody's pet, he's too intelligent for that. And, as das says, he understands humans well enough to be able to manipulate even a seemingly hopeless situtaion to his own ends.
Having said that, I also think Todd can see the wider picture in a way that none of the others (Wraith or human) can.
I think Todd understands that this could be a turning point for the good of the entire Universe and that it's bigger than just Wraith v human.

**Wraith Cake** · 12 December 2008, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by leksa View Post

OK. Now I noticed another difference in our points of view.
Since I know about this "scientific view of the life, universe and everything" I do not try to attribute the human one to the Wraith. And that what you described up is the human view. All that morality stuff are valid for us. Because that's our nature. That's wired into us genetically.

I've completely thrown my back out today so I'm off to the chiropractic doctor! Uggg! (long hours at work, and exhaustion for this time of year) I am literally crawling toward our holiday break this year which is sixteen days! Yea!!!

Anyway, to respond, I have to say I disagree.

You are quite familiar with the on going nature versus nurture argument: complex human behaviour cannot be attributed solely and I would argue primarily to human genetics alone. There isn't a genetic reason why I might like the colour red, or choose to blungeon someone over the head (unless I have violent tendencies and have lithium depletion in my brain) , why I would choose a gay life style or lick a metal post in the middle of winter so that my tongue gets stuck. These are complex human behaviours (and I would not say this type of decision making is exclusive to the naked ape). There is no genome found that indicates WK will like pink on Fridays in the middle of winter. There are some arguments endorsing a chemical reaction and interactions in the brain driving some of our basic drives: fear, anxiety, depression--but not complex human behaviours. We may find at some point that we are nothing more than the sum of our parts (a bunch of chemicals sloshing around in a naked bipedal body), but science has not found this yet.

But, unless you assume that the same thing is wired into the Wraith as well, then you cannot judge them by the same principles. What if they simply do not have the same need for morality, sense of fairness, need for justice, etc. as we do?

Perhaps this assertion is stemming from your own human centric "reading" of my previous argument.

Who said, I just meant the naked ape?

As I've mentioned before, my area of expertise is language/linguistics and a large branch of this requires the study of non-human communication patters. Through this I have seen/read/studied case studies of remarkable--actually I wouldn't say just remarkable, I would say astounding--evidence on the intelligence, the intuition, and moral comprehension of the rest of the creatures that make up our planet. The idea of free choice, and conscious decision making in the form of "moral" action is not exclusive to humanity.
Perhaps you are inadvertently proposing a human centric view yourself.

There is a wonderful book called When Elephants Weep by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson. It is a thoroughly logical argument on the morality and sentience of our other Earthling neighbours. There is much I could say on this subject, as it is one of my favourite. What I'll do is add a list of reading at the bottom of this post on the moral sentience of other hominid and non hominid creatures.

Granted, we cannot not know what other evolutionary pressures exist beyond Earth what I can tell you from observation alone is that the writers (I doubt very thoughtfully) have presented a galaxy with similar evolutionary pressures to our Sol system. For instance, the wraith can eat and drink and excrete waste, they can experience gravity and they sleep, breath oxygen, bleed red blood (similar to our own though it looks a little more viscous) have an interest in personal aesthetic, get crabby when woken up too early, make cookies, have tea, like to go for long scenic walks, twirl their hair, braid their hair etc. Don't you find it weird though that their pupils never dilate in dim lighting? I've often griped about this on Mallozzi's blog.

So, when I say we have a moral obligation to fulfill our duties to those abroad and those at home, and choosing not to do so is nothing short of evil behaviour--I am not confining this capacity for evil to humans alone (Now that truly would be a human centric view

).

I'm probably wrong with this assumption, because, the writers would not even consider this possibility.
So honestly I really now asking myself what's the point in trying to muddle trough all this when no one at the creative team of SG worlds will not even consider this option...
(sorry, I'm just realizing that regardless to my enthusiasm for the Wraith as new and interesting creation there is no chance they will be even considered as anything but current monsters which need to be killed off on the show. )

You know actually, I was having this conversation with a colleague of mine at work and one of the things we discussed was how literature/narrative in any format is not really about the story itself. I said, when I discuss on the forum (they all think I'm a hilarious geek!!) about SGA and the wraith, what I am really talking about is life--how a story resonates with real life. The concept of moral obligation and the conscience are always areas that have fascinated me. So, I suppose only from this perspective would I say SGA has been successful for me in that it has compelled me to want to discuss it at length.

But other than that, I am totally with you. The more I discuss the show, the more I am becoming convinced that the story writing success was a fluke. Because it doesn't seem that to date there has been much thought--not much thought beyond "blam blam Whoooshhhhh! 'STOP IT RODNEEEEY--Oh your hot Rodney' (Blech!!! Hurl!!) I say we just KILL 'EM ALLLLLL--Ronon..."

Also, I think the last thing I wanted to say on this subject, (I'm wanted to respond to a previous post you've made, but I'll try to do it quickly here because I can't remember where I was skimming it. I don't think you said this exactly, but you said something about a bleak outlook/ understanding of the universe?) is that having a science background and believing in some sort of overarching universal governing justice are not mutually exclusive ideas. In other words, having a strong faith in God/ a god(s) does not mean this cannot be reconciled to science. Admittedly, science and atheism seem to follow each other. Which is unfortunate because you often find arrogance in the scientific community when it comes to having faith in God (a god(s) )--please, I don't mean to imply that you are.
At the same time though, the scientific method alone should exclude this arrogance. After all, there are a number of prominent scientists who very much have a strong faith in God. By God, I am not only implying a Judaic/Christian God, but the absolutes of justice, mercy, love, good, evil and the consequences of action governing the universe.

So, I guess to summarize, perhaps those with "a faith" in God need to stretch their minds beyond a narrow "reading" of religious writings, and those who hold atheist views should also realize that it too is just "a faith" not a science.

Readings/Views for Animal Sentience/Intelligence:

Masson, Jeffrey Moussaieff. When Elephants Weep: The Emotional Lives of Animals New York May 1996: Dell Publishing

Schroeder, Barbet Koko, A Talking Gorilla--a Film. The Criterion Collection: 1977

Grandin, Temple Animals in Translation: Using the Mysteries of Autism to Decode Animal Behavior January 2006: Harvest Books

WK

**Wraith Cake** · 12 December 2008, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by leksa View Post

Originally Posted by Noir View Post
I think every Wraith who is old enough that he/she has to feed on humans to survive will get problems. Killing someone is not an easy thing to do when you are not used to it. Maybe that's one reason why Wraith normally don't talk to humans?

Only if you assume that they are like us. That would be a problem for a human because of our nature. But if the nature of the Wraith is not like ours, then they would not have any problems.

You are assuming she is just referring to human nature, or you are assuming that other non-homosapien creatures do not also require love, justice, mercy, equality--after all didn't Todd say to Shepard that he was "merely repaying a debt...in fact I did not truly expect you to honour it" It is curious he uses the word "honour".

WK

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