Post-Moebius Part2 Speculation for Atlantis Season 2 (SPOILERS for S8 SG1 and S1 SGA)

[Erik Bloodaxe]

DOes anyone think Jack is his own descendant? Sam and JAck got it on and bingo the ATA gene is spread throughout

LOL. That would be funny (not the ATA part, as that's most likely caused by Ancients returning from Atlantis interbreeding w/ the humans; the Jack being his own ancestor -- or rather a cosmic twin of his being such -- part is funny ).

I'm also left to wonder whether or not stuck-in-the-past Daniel may've ascended at all?

-Bloodaxe

[SGObserver]

Man, you folks are really on top of this ! I had not thought of half
of this. BUT, (you knew THAT was coming), why do we see Sam & Jack fishing at the end of Threads, and Sam makes the comment about not doing this years ago. THEN, at the end of Moebius 2, the EXACT same thing happens, with the addition of the fish. So I'm thinking something MORE changed. Subtle, small, but not without a definite impact on our hero's lives ! Or am in the wrong thread of our Quantum Multiverse ? I think something serious changed. But like a tiny pebble thrown into water, the ripples can only be seen or felt closest to the point of impact.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Wow... it was too late, and I was too tired, to read this thread... but I did. And, wow... I'm so mentally fried right now after making such a bad decision, that I've nothing to add, other than... wow.

[Erik Bloodaxe]

Man, you folks are really on top of this ! I had not thought of half
of this. BUT, (you knew THAT was coming), why do we see Sam & Jack fishing at the end of Threads, and Sam makes the comment about not doing this years ago. THEN, at the end of Moebius 2, the EXACT same thing happens, with the addition of the fish. So I'm thinking something MORE changed. Subtle, small, but not without a definite impact on our hero's lives ! Or am in the wrong thread of our Quantum Multiverse ? I think something serious changed. But like a tiny pebble thrown into water, the ripples can only be seen or felt closest to the point of impact.

Yeah, definitely different thread. If they use this as an excuse to throw away certain aspects of continuity for absurd reasons, they'll peeve off the fanbase worse than Andromeda, so the most logical (and simplest) explanation is that the reality at the end of Moebius is the one we've been following all along, and the one at the end of Threads was the other one (the one that lead to this one). Otherwise further changes would've upset everything leading up to that same ending of Threads to begin w/, and also cause Atlantis' continuity to be a big mess as well, so it's a bigger headache than it's worth and us still being in the same reality as we were all along in the show is the best solution, w/ Moebius simply being another story along the lines of 2010 that tells the events that lead to that reality's existance.

-Bloodaxe

[Purpleyin]

Yeah, definitely different thread. If they use this as an excuse to throw away certain aspects of continuity for absurd reasons, they'll peeve off the fanbase worse than Andromeda, so the most logical (and simplest) explanation is that the reality at the end of Moebius is the one we've been following all along, and the one at the end of Threads was the other one (the one that lead to this one). Otherwise further changes would've upset everything leading up to that same ending of Threads to begin w/, and also cause Atlantis' continuity to be a big mess as well, so it's a bigger headache than it's worth and us still being in the same reality as we were all along in the show is the best solution, w/ Moebius simply being another story along the lines of 2010 that tells the events that lead to that reality's existance.

-Bloodaxe

But the one we've been watching all along was the one that led to creation of second and third timelines - Timeline1 is the one we've been watching all along - I really can't see how you can claim that we've been watching the resulting one when we've very clearly seen that T1 was the Threads ending (no zpm) and start of Moebius Part 1 and that Moebius Part 2 is T3 which definitely crosses over with SGa Seige Part 2 as well and is the result of al the meddling by our oriinal timeline (as muchas that can be called it) SG1.

Now just because the timelines have changed doesn't mean something drastic is changed and I agree it would be a copout for them to use it to get rid of continuity - BUT I'm sure there's ways of using it, subtle ones like extra popcorn for example that would be amusing and just something in there to reminded us it is a differnet timeline just like the SG1 fish in pond comment.

[Erik Bloodaxe]

But the one we've been watching all along was the one that led to creation of second and third timelines - Timeline1 is the one we've been watching all along - I really can't see how you can claim that we've been watching the resulting one when we've very clearly seen that T1 was the Threads ending (no zpm) and start of Moebius Part 1 and that Moebius Part 2 is T3 which definitely crosses over with SGa Seige Part 2 as well and is the result of al the meddling by our oriinal timeline (as muchas that can be called it) SG1.

Because, the resulting one would still have had a time-traveling SG-1 in the past, w/o any sort of dependancy whatsoever on whether or not Moebius had aired yet. To say that the entirety of the series' history has been a different timeline (instead of just parts of a couple episodes) is like saying that 2010 should've made the whole series before that a different reality, even though the episode itself is the only divergence.

-Bloodaxe

[Purpleyin]

Because, the resulting one would still have had a time-traveling SG-1 in the past, w/o any sort of dependancy whatsoever on whether or not Moebius had aired yet. To say that the entirety of the series' history has been a different timeline (instead of just parts of a couple episodes) is like saying that 2010 should've made the whole series before that a different reality, even though the episode itself is the only divergence.

-Bloodaxe

Well 2010 changed the past so that the 2010 scenario either never happened or it split off at the time of the note with the 2010 timelnie still exisiting as it had, them all dead etc- depending on which time travel theory you are using.

And the whole point of this idea is that the resulting timeline 3 doesn't require them to go into the past in this new Moebius part 2 ending timeline because timeline 3 is the result of the meddling in timelines 1 and 2.

I'm also not saying the whole history has been a different timeline, I'm saying Moebius part 2 ending onwards is a new, and the third, timeline - a subtle difference there

Personally it would be weird to presume Threads ending was randomly a different timeline that ties into Moebius Part 1 beginning. To me at least it makes more sense that begging of Moebius Part 1 + Threads ending and all before was Timeline 1 and that changes in Moebius Part 2 have created those other 2 new timelines, the third one being what we are now going to carry on watching. It's a linear extrapolation of effects from events.

I do see what you get at with the other idea but I personally think that's a bit of a jarring, awkward way to think about it and that the timeline 1 > timeline 2> timeline 3 where we are now in end of S8 and into S9 is simpler, if it's possible for this to be simple at all that is.

[Fox McCloud]

Timeline A got scrweballed when they went back in time.
Timeline B went back in time and fixed thigns.
Timeline A was restored.

You think too much about timetravel like from other shows and the whole grandfatehr paradox etc.
Stargate timetravel is different.
It goes by the philosphy of overwriting the past when it happens.
The SG1 at teh end of Moebius are our SG1.
Siege Part 2 takes place after this (which is basically after Threads)

Everything is back to normal. With the exception of the ZPM.

The fish in the pond where always there. If you notice, Oniell doesnt say anyhtring to refute TapeJacks claim of no fish.

[Keffler]

The fish in the pond where always there. If you notice, Oniell doesnt say anyhtring to refute TapeJacks claim of no fish.

Rewatched it tonaight and:

Carter: Is that all true?
O'neill: If it is does that mean we dont have to go back and change anything?


Or he might just have thought it sounded silly not to have fish in hios pond so he put some in.

[Purpleyin]

Timeline A got scrweballed when they went back in time.
Timeline B went back in time and fixed thigns.
Timeline A was restored.

You think too much about timetravel like from other shows and the whole grandfatehr paradox etc.
Stargate timetravel is different.
It goes by the philosphy of overwriting the past when it happens.
The SG1 at teh end of Moebius are our SG1.
Siege Part 2 takes place after this (which is basically after Threads)

Everything is back to normal. With the exception of the ZPM.

The fish in the pond where always there. If you notice, Oniell doesnt say anyhtring to refute TapeJacks claim of no fish.

Ok, firstly the way I'm looking at the SG1 time travel isn't anything to do with the grandfather paradox at all.

Secondly timeline A wasn't restored - it's timeline C that happens to be almost exactly identical. Probably exactly the same apart from the fish thing but still not the original A timeline - the exception of the ZPM shows that this is a different timeline.

Timeline A is out there and still screwed up, if you are using multiverse idea - which they seem to be using in SGA Before I Sleep.

And note that it's most likely another version of Janus' time travel jumper that they have in SG1, so it makes sense same ways apply to Moebius as did in BIS.

Previously the issue of Alternate timelines wasn't addressed. So think agian about 2010 - everyone presumes the 2010 reality never happened because of changes BUT there's nothing to discount that the 2010 scenario still exist as well as our SG1 after that message came through.

And on the Oneil not saying anything to refute the no fish claim by TapeJack - that would mean he wasn't claiming the statement false, so how does that help prove what you're saying? Unless you meant something else there and I just don't get it because of your phrasing.

Anyway - Threads Timeline 1 = no fish, or at least Jack claimed so and hecne said so on tape.

Sure they could have been fish there and he didn't catch any in Timeline A/1 , but regardless of the fish thing Timeline 3/C is still different to the original, at the very least that it has a zedpm, and so there could be more differences there too, hypothetically.

[Erik Bloodaxe]

I'm also not saying the whole history has been a different timeline, I'm saying Moebius part 2 ending onwards is a new, and the third, timeline - a subtle difference there

Um... the second part of your sentence here kinda contradicts the first. You mention that the series' history doesn't have to be a different timeline, only to follow that up w/ the claim that everything in the future of the series will now be a different timeline. But I don't agree w/ that since I don't really like the idea that the timelines have shifted mid-series for both SG-1 and Atlantis. The better way to think of it is that it's really still the same timeline we've been following all along and last-scene-Threads and Moebius were telling the story of what lead to that timeline, much in the way that 2010 tells a story of what lead to the current timeline. That way, they can't get away w/ throwing out continuity or pushing the "reset to zero" button if they so choose, but claim they won't; that way, the series still has a definitive history instead of one that's up in the air from everything being a different timeline now.

-Bloodaxe

[Purpleyin]

Um... the second part of your sentence here kinda contradicts the first. You mention that the series' history doesn't have to be a different timeline, only to follow that up w/ the claim that everything in the future of the series will now be a different timeline. But I don't agree w/ that since I don't really like the idea that the timelines have shifted mid-series for both SG-1 and Atlantis. The better way to think of it is that it's really still the same timeline we've been following all along and last-scene-Threads and Moebius were telling the story of what lead to that timeline, much in the way that 2010 tells a story of what lead to the current timeline. That way, they can't get away w/ throwing out continuity or pushing the "reset to zero" button if they so choose, but claim they won't; that way, the series still has a definitive history instead of one that's up in the air from everything being a different timeline now.

-Bloodaxe

Ok, sorry about the contradiciton there - there's something I can't quite articulate either now or apparently in that sentence, so i'll give up on trying that. That's what happens when I try posting on timetravel when sleepy.

Anyway, the other thing seems to be just an interpretation of which episodes are the different timeline, never going to be solved unless those who know say so...

Therefore I posted a question up on the Joe Mallozzi Q&A thread (which i'm hopnig i got the phrasing right on) - who knows he might well answer it sometime and solve the mystery/debate.

[Winterscape]

The moment the SG team watched the tape and decided not to go back in the first place, the self-referencing timeloop would have been broken, thus resulting in the disappearance of the ZPM. Actually, moreso than that, just leaving the tape there would have caused timeline B not to exist, and nothing to have happened. So putting the tape there would directly cause the tape not to be there. The existence of that tape ensures the in-existence of those events and timeline A remains the same as ever. I imagine the universe would collapse unto itself. XD

[Purpleyin]

The moment the SG team watched the tape and decided not to go back in the first place, the self-referencing timeloop would have been broken, thus resulting in the disappearance of the ZPM. Actually, moreso than that, just leaving the tape there would have caused timeline B not to exist, and nothing to have happened. So putting the tape there would directly cause the tape not to be there. The existence of that tape ensures the in-existence of those events and timeline A remains the same as ever. I imagine the universe would collapse unto itself. XD

But the point is that timeline A isn't the same as ever!
It has a zedpm now.