Some people say if the Earth was invaded by zombies, some of us would be supporters of zombie rights. We can kind of draw the same parralel with Wraiths. Both consume humans.
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Morally questionable actions of the Stargate Atlantis Expedition
Collapse
X
-
Spoiler:I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.
-
Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View PostSorry not sure what you are getting at. What are we supposed to discuss here? Wraith etiquette?
The whole morality debate is about if SGA's actions are morally acceptable, aka warring with wraiths. How is this not relevant?
Title of the thread = Morally questionable actions of the Stargate Atlantis Expedition
Not a Wraith and Asuran hate thread.
Also, the statement with "survival of the human race" is not correct for the Wraith, because the Wraith would not kill off the human race, at least not while being tied to humans as they are now. So, that's not even a "fact" either.Last edited by WraithTech; 27 June 2018, 03:19 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View PostSome people say if the Earth was invaded by zombies, some of us would be supporters of zombie rights. We can kind of draw the same parralel with Wraiths. Both consume humans.
Speaking of analogies and brain-eating zombies: "Analogies are good for explaining concepts for the first time. But they have no value in debate. Analogies are not logic, and they are not relevant facts. An analogy is literally just two things that remind you of each other on at least one dimension. When I see a cauliflower, it reminds me of a human brain, but that doesn’t mean you should eat brains in your salad. When your debate opponents retreat to analogies, it is because they have no rational arguments." -- Scott AdamsLast edited by WraithTech; 27 June 2018, 02:55 PM.
Comment
-
I don't think there's a single thing that can be done about the wraith that won't be morally questionable. So long as wraith exist, they will have to feed. So long as they feed on humans, humans will have to fight back. Something has to give somewhere. Even if it were somehow possible to evacuate the galaxy, all you're doing is killing them with starvation instead of bullets. Even if you make the virus optional, there's going to be some wraith who won't want to take it then it's back to square one.
sigpic
Stargate spin off series: Stargate Millennium
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/5580179/StargateMillennium
Comment
-
Originally posted by StargateMillennium View PostI don't think there's a single thing that can be done about the wraith that won't be morally questionable.
For the Wraith who would not want to stop feeding on humans after having a workable choice, that would be on those specific Wraith and not their entire race-- nor on the New Lanteans.Last edited by WraithTech; 27 June 2018, 05:11 PM.
Comment
-
Please spare me the "fact" speech, we're talking about a fictional universe. That being said, what about the fact that most wraiths don't want to be "converted"? As Todd said when first presented with the drug: what will we do? What will we be?Spoiler:I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.
Comment
-
ok ... speaking of morally questionable choices, atlantis bullied to many human worlds early on, but between what they did with the hoffins, the genii, and others, i would say they tried then were rebuffed, i would say they should have done more for hte hoffins, they should have forced the gennii to work with them by sharing data with them and just not trusting them a hair, but constantly being thier as a trustable force the gennii could work with anytime they were willing, without dehumanizing or humiliating thier pride, no pleases or thanks required, and continued attempts to share cultures and past histories iwth them...
it would backfire the genii would likely just use everything to try to get ahold of the technology and get on top of the atlantis crews and take them over or completely strip them of thier safety, but if were going with morally questionable, then constantly not being thier offering overtures of freindships at no cost to share knowledge and resources and experiences, well.... what else can be said, thats not very morally rightious if your not willing to risk your pride, your life, your freedom, to help save others, even if they would murder or feed you to various unknown horrors or monstrosities
Comment
-
Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View PostPlease spare me the "fact" speech, we're talking about a fictional universe.
Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View PostThat being said, what about the fact that most wraiths don't want to be "converted"? As Todd said when first presented with the drug: what will we do? What will we be?
I also have to paste what I already said above: For the Wraith who would not want to stop feeding on humans after having a workable choice, that would be on those specific Wraith and not their entire race-- nor on the New Lanteans.Last edited by WraithTech; 28 June 2018, 05:38 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by WraithTech View PostNice try, but one still can't present fallacies such as strawmans.
This is not a fact either. A single Wraith positing a philosophical question, who later did take said retrovirus, along with his entire crew, is not "most Wraith." Michael initially was against it, too, then saw the benefits and acted to create his own retrovirus. But, as of this point in the game, there is no viable drug to approach the rest of the Wraith with. Todd and Jennifer hardly got to scratch the surface of working on it, having been interrupted by rouge Asgard, and most Wraith would not even know of the drug, let alone have had time to discuss it and give an answer.
I also have to paste what I already said above: For the Wraith who would not want to stop feeding on humans after having a workable choice, that would be on those specific Wraith and not their entire race-- nor on the New Lanteans.
1: The drug is useless unless all wraiths agree to undergo the treatment, which has been proven not to be an unanimous decision.
2: By your logic, forcing our ways aka the drug on Wraith is equally immoral. We would be imposing our way of life onto them.Spoiler:I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post1: The drug is useless unless all wraiths agree to undergo the treatment, which has been proven not to be an unanimous decision.
No, it would not have to be a unanimous decision. No race has to make unanimous decisions. Individuals make decisions.
Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post2: By your logic, forcing our ways aka the drug on Wraith is equally immoral. We would be imposing our way of life onto them.
In "Misbegotten," the Lanteans were altering Wraith bodies and memories without their permission. Everything was stripped from them. That is unilateral and that is morally questionable.
In "First Contact," the Lanteans were cooperating with Todd and his scientists in a voluntary delegation on both sides. Todd's hive were willing collaborators and contributors. They would be keeping their memories and their way of life: their families, their clothing, their hives, their tattoos, etc. Collaborating is not forcing. Because Michael, Todd, and Todd's hive worked on the new drug, it is not a human-only invention either. If the drug ends up working, they don't even have to so much as look at a human again if they don't want to and can move to another galaxy, because we would not matter to them any more. They don't have to live among us or adopt any human culture.Last edited by WraithTech; 28 June 2018, 07:59 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by WraithTech View PostFor the Wraith who would not want to stop feeding on humans after having a workable choice, that would be on those specific Wraith and not their entire race-- nor on the New Lanteans.
sigpic
Stargate spin off series: Stargate Millennium
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/5580179/StargateMillennium
Comment
-
Originally posted by StargateMillennium View PostWe call consider genocide the targeted killing based on race or species. But does that word still apply to subspecies? Because that would be creating a subspecies then wiping out the other subspecies.
EDIT: Deleting part of this reply because I get the first sentence now and don't need clarification on that part. Just the virus question.Last edited by WraithTech; 28 June 2018, 08:32 AM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by WraithTech View PostWhich virus? As I said to Chaka, Todd and Michael co-creating a retrovirus and taking it on their own accord is not the New Lanteans forcing anything.
EDIT: Deleting part of this reply because I get the first sentence now and don't need clarification on that part. Just the virus question.
sigpic
Stargate spin off series: Stargate Millennium
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/5580179/StargateMillennium
Comment
-
Originally posted by WraithTech View PostIt was never proven. You are making up scenes that never happened
First contact:
KELLER: I don't think we're doing this cavalierly. I stand by the data. It will work.
TODD: Uh-huh. Perhaps it will.
KELLER: The question is: do you want it to?
(Todd turns and looks at her, humming thoughtfully.)
TODD: I do see the benefits, even if we only use the therapy on some of my troops, say those whose lives -- thanks to this war -- are expected to be short. Why waste perfectly good resources on them, yes? But it will be very difficult for me to ask those around me to give themselves over for the good of the human race.
KELLER: But it's for your benefit too. If you don't have to rely on human feeding, the war would be over.
TODD: Perhaps. (It looks away.) But then what would we do? Who would we be?
TODD: I believe your idea has merit -- if you can make the treatment work.
KELLER: It'll work.
TODD: Of course, converting a single Hive would be pointless. It would make little difference to the humans of this galaxy and it would make us pariahs amongst our own kind.Spoiler:I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.
Comment
-
Originally posted by StargateMillennium View PostIt'll have to be the second virus since the first one outright turns them human. We create a subspecies of wraith that don't need to feed then wipe out the subspecies that do. I mean, the idea is to present it to the wraith to take it on their own volition and kill the ones who don't. Is that still genocide since it is the targeted killing of a subspecies?
I am not looking to defend feeding on humans if the Wraith get a viable choice not to have to anymore. They are grown adults and know the dangers they face if they don't have to put themselves in harm's way but choose to continue to do so.
Comment
Comment