Morally questionable actions of the Stargate Atlantis Expedition

[Ouroboros]

I think it had more to do with the fact that they did it before he'd even had a chance to take them to the antiques road show, but in general, yes.

It's kinda like how the war with the Wraith wasn't really over Earth or feeding grounds or Wraith queen killing. It's obvious now from the A++ superfantastic finale's plot that the Wraith can totally just bring people back from the dead with a lying on of their magic hands. It's then also obvious that the whole thing must have been about them messing up that Wraith queen's nice white dress with all that blood, and two, yes count 'em, two holes.

I mean the audacity, did they have any idea how much it cost?

Could you even imagine waking up from your latest "temporary life interruption" to find that your favorite white ball gown had been utterly destroyed by some stupid human who thought stabbing you to death in the middle of a ship full of thousands of guys who could resurrect you by touch was something worth doing.

If you say that you wouldn't want to conquer his planet, enslave his people, eradicate their culture, and then subsequently force breed them for thousands of generations as factory food stock, you're clearly not being honest with your feelings.

[thekillman]

I think it had more to do with the fact that they did it before he'd even had a chance to take them to the antiques road show, but in general, yes.

I just watched Ender's game and boy, it's pretty much a direct parody of Stargate.

It ends with the xenocide of a race that most likely wasn't hostile, but they never bothered to investigate that and blindly attacked.

[Mister Oragahn]

Yes. The Real reason Ba'al didn't like the SG1 teams is because they blew up his lawn gnomes.

You know, he used to clone them.

[Mister Oragahn]

Could you even imagine waking up from your latest "temporary life interruption" to find that your favorite white ball gown had been utterly destroyed by some stupid human who thought stabbing you to death in the middle of a ship full of thousands of guys who could resurrect you by touch was something worth doing.

Unless they have some particularly smart law like the one enforced by the queen of Thailand in the 19th century. She fell into a river or a lake, and drowned because her subjects were not allowed to touch her.
I can't remember seeing one single Wraith male ever touch a Wraith female in the show.
Not a single time.

If you say that you wouldn't want to conquer his planet, enslave his people, eradicate their culture, and then subsequently force breed them for thousands of generations as factory food stock, you're clearly not being honest with your feelings.

Plus Wraith stores aren't necessarily open during this period of the... millennium?

[Ouroboros]

Unless they have some particularly smart law like the one enforced by the queen of Thailand in the 19th century. She fell into a river or a lake, and drowned because her subjects were not allowed to touch her.
I can't remember seeing one single Wraith male ever touch a Wraith female in the show.
Not a single time.

Or maybe it was a Stalin type deal where she was dying but because all her subjects loved her so much they spent a really long time "deciding" how to save her. You know, to make sure they didn't make any mistakes or anything...

The drinking and partying that came afterward was totally unrelated, it was because it was also Jerry's birthday, and just because the evil megaultra*****queenofsatan finally died on Jerry's birthday doesn't mean he should be cheated out of his party. It was the first one he's had out of the last 783 that anyone was awake to celebrate.

Plus Wraith stores aren't necessarily open during this period of the... millennium?

Yeah sure, like you could even get a dress that hot off the rack.

[garhkal]

I just watched Ender's game and boy, it's pretty much a direct parody of Stargate.

It ends with the xenocide of a race that most likely wasn't hostile, but they never bothered to investigate that and blindly attacked.

Yup. Though admittedly that race DID strike us first. SO it could be understood why we would go to war with them.

[thekillman]

Yup. Though admittedly that race DID strike us first. SO it could be understood why we would go to war with them.

Yea, but as noted in the film (and book), they were passive for a long time (well over 100 years in the book btw), which raised questions as to just how evil they were. Although, the book removes that doubt and just outright states (later on ) that it was a mistake on their (the aliens) part.

They even take the piss on it when, at the end-battle, one of the kids remarks "well ender's not looking for a diplomatic solution, is he?" when Ender wonders what to do.

[ZRFTS]

Of course they're morally questionable actions; that's what made the show so different. They were trying to do the same thing that SG-1 did but SG-1 at least had a sufficient enemy, sufficient reasoning and sufficient behavior to do what they were trying to do. The Atlantis Expedition was morally questionable from the start.

I'll list a few of the actions here.

#1. "Poisoning the Well", While they did object to it later on, the fact that they created a wraith feeding virus is objectionable in itself. The morality rate was too risky even if it was 50/50 and the fact that it could kill the host as well as the wraith meant that pure evil was created.
#2. Threatening the Wraith's way of life, of course the Wraith have to be the enemy by Stargate standards but think about it, they have their own culture, they have their own life. The Expedition could be compared to the ancients in a way that they're trying to establish their turf and they're trying to make it the same as SG-1 even though as I explained before, it wasn't.
#3. Michael, Just awful. Taking an innocent Wraith and making him into a human while lying to him, I don't care if he would of killed them in an instant. Kidnapping a Wraith just to ruin his life is wrong and making him an outcast no matter how good the character is is also wrong.
#4. Blowing up a planet, need I say more?
#5. Leaving the Pegasus Galaxy, need I say more?

My memory on Atlantis may be a bit rusty but this is what I remember; the show itself was enjoyable, the actions were not. If anything they should of chosen a crew who would of been more careful, who would of been more diplomatic and who would of been more willing to further the mission. John and Rodney are entertaining but they're not doing the best job in the world and I think they might of endangered the Pegasus galaxy rather then save it.

There, I said it.

[thekillman]

While they did object to it later on, the fact that they created a wraith feeding virus is objectionable in itself.

I fairly recently watched the episode. They didn't know the side-effects until pretty late in the process. Sheppard was eager to spill all secrets however and the Hoffans knew we had a wraith. Even subjecting the wraith to such an experiment was sort-of justified as the protein was discovered because the wraith tried to feed on a man but couldn't. technically, it was safe.

By properly controlling information, we could've prevented the scenario by not telling we had a wraith, helping them make the drug and then have the hoffans test it on a couple of humans to see if it's safe. At 50% fatality Atlantis simply could've refused to help further and the Hoffans would never know the true effectiveness, only the deadliness.

[Mister Oragahn]

OTOH, Wraith feed on humans. Their culture is a parasitic one, there's been no sign of any other attempt at creating a more balanced system.
Simply put, if mankind had an empire of a thousand worlds at its disposal but still possessed a modicum of logic, it would have been totally normal to attempt smuggling humans out of the Pegasus galaxy, or relocate them to planets newly protected by an ever growing network of Terran outposts.
Obviously at this point the Wraith would have not accepted their main food source to be ripped off their hands, and soon enough the first armed conflicts would have occurred, triggering an all out war of epic proportions.
Wraith remain a foe as far as I'm concerned.
The problem is that the expedition started a chain of events which was way above their league.
The only thing the hypothetical empire could have done would have been to exploit the ensuring civil war within Wraith ranks, make a deal to favour a side and offer same side the opportunity to feed on convicts from imperial prisons, only under the condition that this Wraith group would hibernate a long time. Perhaps creating a fairer system for both sides would be brought to the table at some point.

[garhkal]

I fairly recently watched the episode. They didn't know the side-effects until pretty late in the process. Sheppard was eager to spill all secrets however and the Hoffans knew we had a wraith. Even subjecting the wraith to such an experiment was sort-of justified as the protein was discovered because the wraith tried to feed on a man but couldn't. technically, it was safe.

By properly controlling information, we could've prevented the scenario by not telling we had a wraith, helping them make the drug and then have the hoffans test it on a couple of humans to see if it's safe. At 50% fatality Atlantis simply could've refused to help further and the Hoffans would never know the true effectiveness, only the deadliness.

Which goes back to Shepard's willfulness in spilling secrets to others.

OTOH, Wraith feed on humans. Their culture is a parasitic one, there's been no sign of any other attempt at creating a more balanced system.

To US its parasitic, as its humans being fed on. Would we say our feeding on cows is parasitic? The cow's might.

[base12]

SGA did seem to be a bit darker than SG1 was, at least in it's earlier seasons. The actions of the characters seems to be on account of them being flawed, (either intentionally by the writers, or otherwise). Many of them seemed to be underveloped in terms of maturity. For example, how many times did you see a whiny whiz kid with a PhD appear as a character. Sheppard acted a bit like a teenager in some of his decision making, and Weir just followed along, I suppose because she deferred to his military authority.

That's why I like the early seasons of SG1 a lot better. They're cautious, logical, and generally moral. The episode 'Bane,' for example, where the SGC destroys the alien organism to prevent any genetically engineered weapons from being created from it. Ostensibly because it was too dangerous, and also because it was worse than any known chemical weapon. It also would have been used against the Jaffa, which Hammond + SG1 realized were not the real enemy.

Also, SG1 wasn't (before season 9) looking for any endgame devices, they were always searching for defensive technologies.

On a side note, the whole Michael arc was pretty bad. The only way I see the decision making as being at least logical is if for example, a wraith accidentally followed the team through the gate into the city.

("Oh crap, what are we going to do with him now?") For example...

[thekillman]

To US its parasitic, as its humans being fed on. Would we say our feeding on cows is parasitic? The cow's might.

But parasitic refers to a creature inhabiting another creature. A goa'uld is parasitic. A Wraith is a predator, not a parasite, just as we are a predator to a cow.

[garhkal]

. For example, how many times did you see a whiny whiz kid with a PhD appear as a character.

You forgot that gal that was a prodigy, similar to sam.. and the other kids (well adult teens) that were in that 'young sgc' program.

But parasitic refers to a creature inhabiting another creature. A goa'uld is parasitic. A Wraith is a predator, not a parasite, just as we are a predator to a cow.

My statement was in response to "Mister Oragahn's" statement that their relationship is parasitic..

[Mister Oragahn]

But parasitic refers to a creature inhabiting another creature. A goa'uld is parasitic. A Wraith is a predator, not a parasite, just as we are a predator to a cow.

Not entirely true. Hosts benefit a lot from symbiotes. It's not one way.
Now, a Goa'uld really turns out parasitic when the sharing decision is totalitarian, as it retains control of the host at all costs. It's like the fungus parasite on ants that modifies their behaviour (link).