Morally questionable actions of the Stargate Atlantis Expedition

[WraithTech]

Why is it that this thread, which is supposed to be about reflecting on some of the actions of the New Lanteans, keeps devolving into being a place to post xenophobic comments about the various Pegasus races?

Certainly, individuals in other races made mistakes too, but this thread is supposed to be about the New Lanteans-- and not hating on the New Lanteans either, just discussing their actions and what could have been done better, as they represent us as the human race.

The fact many of us disagree with some of the actions of the New Lanteans, as fellow humans, shows again how not everyone in any race is all alike and we should not think of other groups as monolithic either.

[StargateMillennium]

People are engrained with a very strong concept of good and evil. People tend to categorize groups into those two categories to put things in concepts they can understand. The wraith subjugated humans and fed on them. These are things against what we are normally believe so we brand them as evil to simplify what we are seeing. And we are taught to stand up to and fight evil, so people believe the wraith must be vanquished.

[DarkenLycht]

And there the dilemma starts, because who is good and who is evil, it is all depending on the point of view which is often pushed in one direction, by those who wrote the story and who the story's main focus is on. To me there is no good or evil, just actions I find right or wrong, and that on all sides, Wraith and humans.

But I think the show would have been different if Wraith were the main characters, or the Genii or whatever "enemy" we saw

[WraithTech]

Races can't just be "simplified," as that is prejudice, and the mentality which brings us genocide and war, here on Earth. EDIT: The word I was looking for was "stereotyping."

[AleksisMi]

no i was saying the wraithe seemingly had no use for humans, not that the wraithe werent useful, humans were just a powersource for them that they didnt associate with as it would be demoralizing to befreind them then eat them

[WraithTech]

no i was saying the wraithe seemingly had no use for humans, not that the wraithe werent useful, humans were just a powersource for them that they didnt associate with as it would be demoralizing to befreind them then eat them

It depends on the hive. In "Common Ground," Todd is quick to express, to a group of total strangers, how appreciative he was of John giving him back his life and also how the Gift of Life is given to their closest worshippers (humans) and their brothers. He seemed quite proud to do so, with no hint of reservation or pause. The Queen in "The Hive" gave her worshippers lovely clothing with Wraithy tribal-style designs on them and even silver hair wraps like hers.

So, this shows more of how races can't be simplified.

[WraithTech]

And there the dilemma starts, because who is good and who is evil, it is all depending on the point of view which is often pushed in one direction, by those who wrote the story and who the story's main focus is on. To me there is no good or evil, just actions I find right or wrong, and that on all sides, Wraith and humans.

But I think the show would have been different if Wraith were the main characters, or the Genii or whatever "enemy" we saw

Well said. The New Lanteans walked into a 10,000 year old family feud, of sorts, with Ancients as "parents" and some humans even having shared Wraith and Ancient DNA and Weir getting nanites. So many varied and overlapping stories. We are all connected.

[StargateMillennium]

And there the dilemma starts, because who is good and who is evil, it is all depending on the point of view which is often pushed in one direction, by those who wrote the story and who the story's main focus is on. To me there is no good or evil, just actions I find right or wrong, and that on all sides, Wraith and humans.

But I think the show would have been different if Wraith were the main characters, or the Genii or whatever "enemy" we saw

The concept of good and evil is the source of nearly every conflict. For every good done, there is a negative consequence and vice versa. I once posed the question of whether it was right for the SGC to interfere with the Goa'uld after the Asgard treaty. Several people were shocked by this saying that of course it was right since the Goa'uld were oppressing people. The thing about SG1, was thing were very clean. The Goa'uld killed to fuel their own ego. And, most of all, no civilian casualties. Not by the hands of the SGC at least. Philosophy aside, SG1's conflict was cut and dry.

Atlantis was a different story. They tried to do good and got people killed in the process. That is real war. No mad tyrant was ever vanquished without innocents killed in the process. No decision to positively affect lives has ever not inadvertently negatively affected others in the process. The retrovirus: you could say it's an act of mercy. So long as the wraith need to feed, the conflict would never end. You could say it's forcefully eliminating a race because they are less desirable. The chemical experiment on the wraith. The execution of the wraith during an interrogation. Reprogramming the Asurans. Just like real life, often our attempts to do what we think is good leads us being knee deep in the dead.

We judge the Atlantis expedition easy because we are outsiders looking in. But in real life, we are cogs in a similar machine, fueled by what we think is good and what we think is evil. Just as the Atlantis crew don't really consider their actions, we don't really consider ours.

If SGA was real, then the morality of their actions would be decided by historians and political activists who would look back and simplify what they did as good or evil.

[WraithTech]

You could say it's forcefully eliminating a race because they are less desirable.

I would not make a statement like that, nor use the phrase "less desirable" for a race, nor use euphemisms for genocide such as "forcefully eliminating."

Just as the Atlantis crew don't really consider their actions, we don't really consider ours.

Oh, but we do. It's that non-violent dissenters are often sidelined by those with the most money and power benefiting from institutions. Again, not all of us, as humans, are alike either.

If SGA was real, then the morality of their actions would be decided by historians and political activists who would look back and simplify what they did as good or evil.

Yes, as I said and as Az'ryel said, analyzing the actions-- but not stereotyping entire races over their actions nor calling the Lanteans good or evil. That is the difference. Analyzing actions is what this thread was supposed to be.

[AleksisMi]

ok il propose what my original thoughts regarding replicaters were, the humans should have offered a third option to them, a melding where replicators consumed unesceesary sections of humans, mostly skin, sometimes bone to a degree, and integrated with humans as a sort of.... cooperative hybred alliance where the members immitated the tokra human hybredization, there by protecting the humans and give the replicaters not just a new perspective, but a expanded feeling of sensations from the humans as well as a new freind aside from thier constant hive mind that must have become quite, painful to constantly hear the same static like thoughts always more or less the same unless they dare become reset due to creative differences, this would have openned up technology to the humans, art and passion to the replicaters beyond anger or hatred to the point of destroying everything that was not suffering like them...

plus they could have explored new worlds, new galaxys, and traveled as collective and individuals on space ships, there by opening up new paths for the tokra to create new symbiotes and perhaps even clone thier queen etc

[StargateMillennium]

I would not make a statement like that, nor use the phrase "less desirable" for a race, nor use euphemisms for genocide such as "forcefully eliminating."

I never really considered the virus a form of genocide since, if it works, they still live. Imagine if history's racial genocides played out different because the racists instead of saying 'your race is bad so we will kill you' said 'your race is bad so we will give you a magic potion that turns you into us'. I once compared using the virus to ME:A's Kett. 'our race is better so we shall turn you into us'. We still viewed the actions as horrible but we probably didn't see it as genocide.

Oh, but we do. It's that non-violent dissenters are often sidelined by those with the most money and power benefiting from institutions. Again, not all of us, as humans, are alike either.

I'm saying people as a whole. Even the non-violent dissenters can be part of this. When asked how she could be sure of her actions, Teyla dismissed the notion with a summed up statement of 'wraith are bad'. Perhaps I've been on the internet for too long but that's how I see political talks go. This is an accurate reflection of how most people are.

[WraithTech]

I never really considered the virus a form of genocide since, if it works, they still live. Imagine if history's racial genocides played out different because the racists instead of saying 'your race is bad so we will kill you' said 'your race is bad so we will give you a magic potion that turns you into us'. I once compared using the virus to ME:A's Kett. 'our race is better so we shall turn you into us'. We still viewed the actions as horrible but we probably didn't see it as genocide.

I am not familiar with ME:A, but I can see what you mean in this example. Altering someone's body and/or wiping their memories without their permission are still objectionable, but different acts than killing.

I'm saying people as a whole. Even the non-violent dissenters can be part of this. When asked how she could be sure of her actions, Teyla dismissed the notion with a summed up statement of 'wraith are bad'.

Teyla did yo-yo. Yes. She raised objections, sometimes, especially on behalf of Michael and Ellia, and reminded the team humans were not always peaceful. When she makes blanket statements, though, as the one you referenced, she is not being a dissenter at that time and is even displaying internalized self-hate, as she and her family all have Wraith DNA too. She is a complex character.

Perhaps I've been on the internet for too long but that's how I see political talks go. This is an accurate reflection of how most people are.

If this is a hint at some of the off-topic political threads here that have nothing to do with Stargate or even scifi, I've only recently become aware of them and stay the heck out as they are shocking and depressing. There are too many people out there doing good things otherwise, elsewhere.

[Chaka-Z0]

Although I do agree the SGA expedition did quite a few immoral moves (Michael / waking the wraiths), I believe that this aspect is irrelevant. Whatever is good or evil, one fact remain: survival of the human race.

It is definitely not the same situation as anything we know, because the human race has never been (to my knowledge) hunted by aliens that literally feed on your lifeforce.

That being said, morally or not and unless the virus works 100%, the wraiths must be eliminated or subdued.

[WraithTech]

That being said, morally or not and unless the virus works 100%, the wraiths must be eliminated or subdued.

Again, more euphemisms for genocide and this thread devolving.

It seems not many know how to discuss "Morally questionable actions of the Stargate Atlantis Expedition" without supporting genocide and bashing other races. A single page can't go by. That says a lot more about the human race than it does anyone else.

EDIT: Come to think of it, with all the xenophobia, this thread IS feeling like the political threads, only the Stargate aliens are not real people who can be bullied off the forum.

[Chaka-Z0]

Sorry not sure what you are getting at. What are we supposed to discuss here? Wraith etiquette?

The whole morality debate is about if SGA's actions are morally acceptable, aka warring with wraiths. How is this not relevant?