Did Col Sumner have the ATA Gene?

[Ripple in Space]

The finale established that Dr. Beckett is the #2 best operator of Ancient tech after Sheppard on Atlantis, and we saw Atlantis had survived in an AU without Sheppard's involvement.

It's hard to believe that Beckett would've been able to win a lot of the battles Sheppard did since Beckett wasn't especially competent with Ancient tech until several years into the expedition.

Might Col. Sumner have been a Shep/Jack-level ATA person? Explaining their successes without Sheppard?

[garhkal]

Nope. The reason shep was there was cause other than becket, he was the only other ATA gene person the expedition had..

[jelgate]

Nope. The reason shep was there was cause other than becket, he was the only other ATA gene person the expedition had..

Thats false. For one Lorne had the ATA gene. It bothered me that Beckett was choosen over him

[Gen. Chris]

Thats false. For one Lorne had the ATA gene. It bothered me that Beckett was choosen over him

I was always under the impression that Lorne arrived with the "second wave" of people later on in the show, and wasn't there in the first season.

[jelgate]

True. That is however irrelvent as the question is talking about EATG

[Ripple in Space]

Thats false. For one Lorne had the ATA gene. It bothered me that Beckett was choosen over him

I was always under the impression that Lorne arrived with the "second wave" of people later on in the show, and wasn't there in the first season.

True. That is however irrelvent as the question is talking about EATG

No it's not. Gen. Chris is right, I was talking about in general. There were multiple situations where it's hard to believe Atlantis and/or her flagship team could've survived without Sheppard or someone else with that level of aptitude for Ancient tech.

EATG establishes that there isn't anyone on Atlantis remotely near Sheppard's ATA ability level, given Beckett is #2, and he'd be the first to say he can't fly or shoot Ancient tech especially well. It makes me wonder if Col Sumner could've been an ATA gene guy below Shep/O'Neill, but well above Beckett... Explaining how Atlantis would've survived the Wraith & Asuran sieges from the earlier seasons, because there's no was Beckett could've taken out that entire fleet of darts from "The Siege." I'm pretty sure Jack & Shep are the only ones ever shown to accurately fire on multiple targets at one time.

Nope. The reason shep was there was cause other than becket, he was the only other ATA gene person the expedition had..

Jack said he was sending "a dozen or so" people with the ATA gene on the Atlantis Expedition with Weir in Rising.

[greytop]

Most of those that had the gene in the latter part of S1 were most likely like Rodney was through gene therapy. And those that did have it were pilots and were needed in the shuttles or fighting the Wraith on the ground. So, I do not think that Col.Sumner had the ATA gene.

[jelgate]

No it's not. Gen. Chris is right, I was talking about in general. There were multiple situations where it's hard to believe Atlantis and/or her flagship team could've survived without Sheppard or someone else with that level of aptitude for Ancient tech.

EATG establishes that there isn't anyone on Atlantis remotely near Sheppard's ATA ability level, given Beckett is #2, and he'd be the first to say he can't fly or shoot Ancient tech especially well. It makes me wonder if Col Sumner could've been an ATA gene guy below Shep/O'Neill, but well above Beckett... Explaining how Atlantis would've survived the Wraith & Asuran sieges from the earlier seasons, because there's no was Beckett could've taken out that entire fleet of darts from "The Siege." I'm pretty sure Jack & Shep are the only ones ever shown to accurately fire on multiple targets at one time.


Jack said he was sending "a dozen or so" people with the ATA gene on the Atlantis Expedition with Weir in Rising.

I will grant you that Shep has the best gene ability as this was established in EATG. But given the plot holes and continuity errors of EATG I have a hard time believing Beckett is number 2 in using Ancient devices

[Lythisrose]

I will grant you that Shep has the best gene ability as this was established in EATG. But given the plot holes and continuity errors of EATG I have a hard time believing Beckett is number 2 in using Ancient devices

I kind of think they had to find something for Carson to do in the very last episode and that's what they came up with. I agree he'd never been shown to be particularly proficient in using the gene up until then. Unless Clone!Carson was significantly better at it than OriginalFlavor!Carson.

[Ripple in Space]

I kind of think they had to find something for Carson to do in the very last episode and that's what they came up with. I agree he'd never been shown to be particularly proficient in using the gene up until then. Unless Clone!Carson was significantly better at it than OriginalFlavor!Carson.

True story. Still, besides flying a PJ in a straight line, no one has been shown to have remotely Jack or Shep's ability with Ancient tech.

Both have demonstrated precision shooting of multiple moving targets, while avoiding friendlies.

That's kind of my point. There's no way Atlantis would've even survived the preliminary wave of the Wraith Siege in S1/S2 without Sheppard. Forget the Hiveships, without him manning the drone chair, the darts would've easily overcome those Marines.

In my mind, the only explanation for the survival of Vegas!Rodney's Atlantis is either Jack leading that first wave of reinforcements or Col. Sumner being an ATA gene holder, with abilities far above Beckett (while still below Jack/Shep).

Despite erroneous claims in this thread, Jack & Weir clearly discussed sending "a dozen or so" people on the original Atlantis Expedition who hold the ATA gene (this was before the therapy too). I see no reason why Sumner couldn't have been one of those people. In fact, it would've made sense for Jack to send a commanding officer on the expedition who had the gene...

[garhkal]

In my mind, the only explanation for the survival of Vegas!Rodney's Atlantis is either Jack leading that first wave of reinforcements or Col. Sumner being an ATA gene holder, with abilities far above Beckett (while still below Jack/Shep).

How ? Sumner was dead long before vegas.

[Ripple in Space]

How ? Sumner was dead long before vegas.

Who says he's dead in the Vegas!verse?

[garhkal]

Good point.. Though what would he be upto in that reality??

[Xaeden]

That's kind of my point. There's no way Atlantis would've even survived the preliminary wave of the Wraith Siege in S1/S2 without Sheppard. Forget the Hiveships, without him manning the drone chair, the darts would've easily overcome those Marines.

In my mind, the only explanation for the survival of Vegas!Rodney's Atlantis is either Jack leading that first wave of reinforcements or Col. Sumner being an ATA gene holder, with abilities far above Beckett (while still below Jack/Shep).

Yeah, in a universe where Sheppard wasn't around, it stands to reason that they would send someone more apt with Ancient technology to defend the city. But the vacuum created by Sheppard could have also led to the siege occurring in a whole different manner. For example, Teyla would have been unlikely to have joined the expedition without him and so that would led to changes in how they went about exploring worlds; they may not have encountered the Genii so they wouldn't have gotten sidetracked dealing with them, they wouldn't have had the Wraith chasing after them because they were tracking her necklace for a period of time, etc. So instead they could have found something to help fight or stall the Wraith either by reaching a planet like the one from "The Tower" sooner or by finding a new one that we never saw (e.g. for a brief window of time there could have been a person on a planet that they didn't go to because Teyla wanted to visit the Hoffmans and that person could have given them a tip about something on another world that would've helped them). They also might have gotten the ZPM in "Brotherhood" without the Genii to contend with and with someone else leading the team, so they might have had the shield when the Wraith first attacked.

The possibilities for the timeline to diverge are endless and any small thing could have sent them on a whole different path. Hell, whoever was in charge of the military might not have had the moral fortitude to leave the ZPM from "Childhood's End." That not only would've given them the shield at full power for a few hours while they try to work something out, (if Teyla wasn't around it's unclear if their plan to the convince the Wraith that they were going to destroy the city would have worked or not so they might have done something differently) but it would have let them see how many drones the city had left before dialing Earth. If you recall, they couldn't find out how many they had without powering up the chair, so Earth sent them the Mark II and just hoped for the best. However, if they sent word that they had so few left, Earth might have sent enough drones from the Ancient platform for them to be able to take out the Wraith's first wave and, again, who knows what they could have done with that extra time.

[Ripple in Space]

Yeah, in a universe where Sheppard wasn't around, it stands to reason that they would send someone more apt with Ancient technology to defend the city. But the vacuum created by Sheppard could have also led to the siege occurring in a whole different manner. For example, Teyla would have been unlikely to have joined the expedition without him and so that would led to changes in how they went about exploring worlds; they may not have encountered the Genii so they wouldn't have gotten sidetracked dealing with them, they wouldn't have had the Wraith chasing after them because they were tracking her necklace for a period of time, etc. So instead they could have found something to help fight or stall the Wraith either by reaching a planet like the one from "The Tower" sooner or by finding a new one that we never saw (e.g. for a brief window of time there could have been a person on a planet that they didn't go to because Teyla wanted to visit the Hoffmans and that person could have given them a tip about something on another world that would've helped them). They also might have gotten the ZPM in "Brotherhood" without the Genii to contend with and with someone else leading the team, so they might have had the shield when the Wraith first attacked.

The possibilities for the timeline to diverge are endless and any small thing could have sent them on a whole different path. Hell, whoever was in charge of the military might not have had the moral fortitude to leave the ZPM from "Childhood's End." That not only would've given them the shield at full power for a few hours while they try to work something out, (if Teyla wasn't around it's unclear if their plan to the convince the Wraith that they were going to destroy the city would have worked or not so they might have done something differently) but it would have let them see how many drones the city had left before dialing Earth. If you recall, they couldn't find out how many they had without powering up the chair, so Earth sent them the Mark II and just hoped for the best. However, if they sent word that they had so few left, Earth might have sent enough drones from the Ancient platform for them to be able to take out the Wraith's first wave and, again, who knows what they could have done with that extra time.

Good point