Atlantis' clandestine departure..?

[Aesop]

It can't lift off both cloaked and shielded. it's or-or.

Also, given that it's a CITY taking off, it doesn't matter: the city is going to be seen anyway. It has to drop the cloak at one point to raise the shields, and the shields need to be raised in the atmosphere. Given it's massive size, this thing is going to be seen for many many miles.

I mean, if you want to calculate: you know the size of an aircraft, and the height they fly at. You can still see them.

There are two sort-of possibilities:

use the cloak to get to a sufficiently desolate place (like the arctic) by floating, or

use a sufficiently misty morning as cover (which isn't gonna work if there is not enough mist and clouds)

I think lifting off but remaining in-atmosphere with the cloak active until they're far enough away from any civilization that they can depart is probably the safest bet.

Wouldn't matter. Unless the Odyessy can cloak other things..

But while we could cloak the city, we could NOT cloak the wave wash.

Fortunately since San Francisco gets some pretty heavy fog quite often, it may be possible to combine thekillman's suggestions and liftoff while cloaked in heavy fog.

Why would the city leave Earth? It's the SGC's greatest asset... well... ever.

I could think of a couple of reasons:

1) The IOA and Homeworld Command decided Atlantis could better protect Earth from the Wraith by relocating back to Pegasus, sort of as a buffer. It's the whole "the best defense is a good offense" philosophy.

2) Further R&D suggests Atlantis could be significantly more useful on another planet in the Milky Way. Perhaps both as a Alpha/Beta/Gamma/whatever-it-is-these-days Site and if our research teams are able to locate another planet with a Naquadriah core then maybe it can be used as a hub for traffic from Earth to Destiny (wishful thinking).

*In either scenario, the SG-teams have successfully scavenged throughout the Milky Way and Pegasus for a replacement control chair to bring to Area 51 and thus Earth's supply of drone weapons is usable again.

I am sure they could figure it out with all the tech, take it to one of poles and temporarily take out some satellites, produce a bunch of fog etc. If we could miss the huge space battle with a superhive vs Atlantis and missed the entrance of a huge object into our atmosphere I am sure we could miss it leaving too.

Then they could take it to the dark side of the moon.

While that'd be kind of cool to have a moon base, it seems like it'd be really impractical, if not impossible (i.e. Atlantis would have to run it's shield constantly just to maintain atmosphere, and it would seem that even with the moon's distance from Earth dialing Earth's coordinates would send you to Atlantis' gate on the moon, so Earth would be unreachable by gate).

What I don't get is that I thought they hooked up the cloaking generator to the shield generator... So wouldn't the cloak be a shield too? In any case, I'm sure they could rig something so that both could work simultaneously.


Why didn't the ancients have cloaks on it, I must ask? They are so far ahead of any race.... But they didn't think of having a cloak for the city? Or a phase-shifter built in? (Maybe they struggled with being out of phase not implying falling through floors - planets in this case)?


I reckon these systems should be in place and just not discovered yet by the Tau'ri.

My guess is they didn't build a native cloaking system into Atlantis because they weren't planning on doing recon work with a city-ship and they had a steady supply of ZPM's and drones to defend it. It seems mainly like the Atlantis Expedition devised the cloaking system because it was an effective and energy efficient way to defend themselves from the Wraith when in short supply of weapons and power.

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

I think a better question is why doesn't Atlantis just float around like the Nox's city?

[Durgia]

While that'd be kind of cool to have a moon base, it seems like it'd be really impractical, if not impossible (i.e. Atlantis would have to run it's shield constantly just to maintain atmosphere, and it would seem that even with the moon's distance from Earth dialing Earth's coordinates would send you to Atlantis' gate on the moon, so Earth would be unreachable by gate).

I think that is the largest benefit. Earth would be secure as you would need puddle jumpers or similar craft to travel between the moon and earth, or set up a ring pad. It is close enough to be easily resupplied though and if an enemy did breach the base they could not spread as easily back to Earth.

If the base was stationary I think an external power source could be devised similar to what powers the Battleships and use the umbilical as they did on Lantea. That could help power shields during normal use to save the ZPMs for emergency and defense.

[hedwig]

I think a better question is why doesn't Atlantis just float around like the Nox's city?

Not enough power to float around indefinitely?

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

Not enough power to float around indefinitely?

This is the ancients we're talking about here!

[Aesop]

I think that is the largest benefit. Earth would be secure as you would need puddle jumpers or similar craft to travel between the moon and earth, or set up a ring pad. It is close enough to be easily resupplied though and if an enemy did breach the base they could not spread as easily back to Earth.

If the base was stationary I think an external power source could be devised similar to what powers the Battleships and use the umbilical as they did on Lantea. That could help power shields during normal use to save the ZPMs for emergency and defense.

While in one case that makes sense, having the gate so far away from Earth seems impractical. If a Puddle Jumper ride from Earth to the moon was equivalent to, say, Air Force One flying from D.C. to Peterson AFB then perhaps it'd be feasible. But the level of activity that happens regularly between Stargate Operations and outside entities seems like it would be dramatically impeded if the gate were on the moon.

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

It wouldn't stop the SGC dialling out but it would mean that incoming wormholes were accepted by Atlantis on the moon instead. When you think about it that would make it a rather nice quarantine base wouldn't you think?

[Durgia]

While in one case that makes sense, having the gate so far away from Earth seems impractical. If a Puddle Jumper ride from Earth to the moon was equivalent to, say, Air Force One flying from D.C. to Peterson AFB then perhaps it'd be feasible. But the level of activity that happens regularly between Stargate Operations and outside entities seems like it would be dramatically impeded if the gate were on the moon.

Ring Pads would solve some of that for basic transport similar to Sokar's base on SG1 . I am not sure on the speed a puddle jumper would go from the Moon to Earth, but they seem pretty fast when seen on SGA from orbit to surface, so I would think it would take less time then traditional continental aircraft and be many times more secure. I am sure it could be figured out mathematically if somebody was so inclined.

It is also hard to determine based on later series how much activity has been transferred off site to Washington and Area 51, which seem to video conference with SGC, which is still quite possible while on the moon.

It wouldn't stop the SGC dialling out but it would mean that incoming wormholes were accepted by Atlantis on the moon instead. When you think about it that would make it a rather nice quarantine base wouldn't you think?

I think that may be the first time I have agreed with you, but yes, that is it exactly. I am not sure how this would effect the Antarctic weapons platform though, which would have to be determined.

[Aesop]

It wouldn't stop the SGC dialling out but it would mean that incoming wormholes were accepted by Atlantis on the moon instead. When you think about it that would make it a rather nice quarantine base wouldn't you think?

Ah, I forgot about that. Good point, that could be a good possibility.

Ring Pads would solve some of that for basic transport similar to Sokar's base on SG1 . I am not sure on the speed a puddle jumper would go from the Moon to Earth, but they seem pretty fast when seen on SGA from orbit to surface, so I would think it would take less time then traditional continental aircraft and be many times more secure. I am sure it could be figured out mathematically if somebody was so inclined.

It is also hard to determine based on later series how much activity has been transferred off site to Washington and Area 51, which seem to video conference with SGC, which is still quite possible while on the moon.




I think that may be the first time I have agreed with you, but yes, that is it exactly. I am not sure how this would effect the Antarctic weapons platform though, which would have to be determined.

I suppose a lot of that makes sense, but the sole problem of power consumption remains. It seems like ultimately Atlantis wasn't made to reside in an environment without atmosphere. It can travel through one, but not remain in one indefinitely. The shield is a defensive implement, not something that is active around the clock just so the city can be habitable. Obviously this is the case with space-travel, but "travel" is the operative word there. Wouldn't you agree?

I think if the Tau'ri advanced to the point that they mastered terraforming, then perhaps they could terraform the moon with a viable atmosphere, maybe even some oceans to park Atlantis on, etc. In that case putting Atlantis on the moon would be an excellent idea for the reasons that you and Energizer_Vs_ZPM have mentioned.

[thekillman]

I think lifting off but remaining in-atmosphere with the cloak active until they're far enough away from any civilization that they can depart is probably the safest bet.

That's a waste of power. Moving the city while it's still afloat, cloaked, is the best option then.

Not sure what qualifies as a "far enough distance". It would have to be pretty far from the known world, and even then there's cargo ships etc that can pick it up.


I would, however put my money on a combination, although again : given the size of Atlantis, it's really hard to hide.
SO: Atlantis is moved by ocean, cloaked.
At a location far enough from any civilization, preferably in thick mist, Atlantis lifts off while cloaked, untill it reaches the point where the shield NEEDS to activate. The cloak drops, a few seconds later the shield raises and it takes off.

It wouldn't stop the SGC dialling out but it would mean that incoming wormholes were accepted by Atlantis on the moon instead. When you think about it that would make it a rather nice quarantine base wouldn't you think?

Putting Atlantis on the moon is about the worst idea i've ever heard.

Did you miss the part where they were stranded in space? Being on the moon is no different aside from having solid ground. Seeing how Atlantis usually lands does not give me a lot of hope for any non-destructive landing on the Moon. It needs the shield constantly on to preserve the atmosphere, or everyone dies.


Atlantis is not made to be in space. It's a city with a bunch of engines and some stuff strapped to it, not a spaceship.

Yes the moon makes for a great quarantine base. Making a new base there in any case is 10x better than placing Atlantis there.

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

It seems like ultimately Atlantis wasn't made to reside in an environment without atmosphere. It can travel through one, but not remain in one indefinitely. The shield is a defensive implement, not something that is active around the clock just so the city can be habitable.

Yet at the very beginning of Atlantis when we see a puddle jumper flying towards it in antarctica, the city is shielded. No weapons fire attacking it, no hostile space craft, nothing. The camera switches to the two ancients by the chair and in the background the PJ flies through the shield.

Now, you're not seriously going to tell me that the shield was used purely for defence are you? The very start of the show introduces us to the concept of it being raised for long periods.

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

Atlantis is not made to be in space. It's a city with a bunch of engines and some stuff strapped to it, not a spaceship.

Strangely it always looked like the engines were actually part of the city and not an extra additional feature that was bolted on.

[thekillman]

Now, you're not seriously going to tell me that the shield was used purely for defence are you? The very start of the show introduces us to the concept of it being raised for long periods.

It is said in The siege that the shields take a lot of power to raise but maintaining them under low stress does not require a lot of energy (probably compared to orbital bombardment)

Strangely it always looked like the engines were actually part of the city and not an extra additional feature that was bolted on.

It wasn't meant literally smartass. It's primarily a city, secundarily a base, tertially a ship. a non-airtight spaceship is not a spaceship.

[Aesop]

Yet at the very beginning of Atlantis when we see a puddle jumper flying towards it in antarctica, the city is shielded. No weapons fire attacking it, no hostile space craft, nothing. The camera switches to the two ancients by the chair and in the background the PJ flies through the shield.

Now, you're not seriously going to tell me that the shield was used purely for defence are you? The very start of the show introduces us to the concept of it being raised for long periods.

I'm pretty sure the shield was up because it was on the verge of embarking into space.

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

But you can't prove it though can you and thats what everyone around here on this forum depends on - it has to be said, seen etc on the show to be fact.

Besides, if you go on that attitude, the city can't take off with the shield active