Where does the show stand with you?

[Snowman37]

Compared to SG-1 and Universe, where does Atlantis stand with you? I tried watching SGU, but I never made it past "Air, Part 3." For me, it's just SG-1 and SGA. That said, during the early years, I never thought the show would get a spin-off. It didn't strike me as Star Trek where there could be numerous spin-offs. For me, the appeal was the characters, so once the show is over... that's it, right? When Atlantis first aired, it just didn't hold a candle to SG-1. I liked it and all, but I just didn't see it replacing the older series. However, that changed very quickly. SG-1 got retooled for the Ori saga, and SGA got retooled by adding a ZPM, the Daedalus, and Colonel Caldwell. Suddenly, both shows were very different. From then on, SGA became my preferred show between the two.

I've excluded the movies as I want to focus on the three shows.

I don't want this to be a ranking thread. I want to focus on Atlantis, and I'd like to discuss why it's your favorite, 2nd favorite, or 3rd favorite. What were the show's strengths and weaknesses when compared to SG-1 and SGU?

[Don Pantaloons]

I'm watching all of the series for the first time (I'm eight episodes into S10 of SG-1 and S3 of SGA).

To me, SG-1 took about a season for it to really find its feet. Once it did, though, I really enjoyed it. Up until S9. I really don't care for Mitchell or Vala. I dislike them less in S10, but they're my least favorite main characters of either SG-1 or SGA. And I'm not keen on the Ori (Adria has been a step in the right direction). I still like the show, just not as much as the previous seasons.

SGA, on the other hand, I've liked pretty much from the start. Part of it is due to the fact that a lot of the backstory was already in place, so there could be more focus on the characters. S1 of SG-1 didn't seem to have much character development for a show that was pretty much focused on only four characters (and most of what I felt I knew, about Jack and Daniel, came from the movie, not the TV show).

For me, it comes down to the characters. Yeah, S9 and S10 of SG-1 have Sam, Daniel, and Teal'c, but they also have Mitchell and Vala (Vala has been better in S10, but Mitchell is still a poorly developed character). SGA, on the other hand, has Sheppard, McKay, Ronon, Beckett, Zelenka, Caldwell, Weir, Teyla, Hermiod. And I find the Wraith and the Genii to be more interesting than the Ori, the Goa'uld stragglers, and the Lucian Alliance.

[Mnikolic]

Well, starting in January, I'm going to start re-watching SG-1, SGA and SGU. Then I'll come back to this thread. I'll make some good notes on each season from every episode, so my answer will be more accurate.

[sueKay]

It took me about a season to warm up to SGA, but it became my favourite show of the franchise in the second season, though I admit I found it hard to watch towards the end because the show changed so much in the last two seasons. I think SGA for the most part struck the right balance of humour, pathos, family, science and action, without getting overly comical. Although more light-hearted at times than SG1, I think it was often a lot darker, which grounded the show a lot better for me.

SG1 is a very, very close second to me, but I disliked the Ori as bad guys, and I wasn't all that fond of the Free Jaffa Nation storyline. I also disliked Vala during her earlier appearances which dampened my enjoyment of s9, though by s10 I loved her...Mitchell was okay, but never a character I was very fond of (Much prefer BB as John Crichton (Could you imagine Vala and John in a scene together?? ))

SGU Had excellent acting, excellent sets, excellent vis effects, an excellent premise...poor pacing, and mostly average to mediocre writing. Despite some stellar performances in the episodes I've seen (especially IMO from Alaina Huffman, David Blue and Robert Carlyle) and some very likeable characters...I just couldn't watch it. I loved the expansion of the franchise and it's mythos though, and the whole new scope the Destiny and it's mission gives humanity is something that merits further explanation...but IMO with some new writers at the helm.

[the fifth man]

While I enjoyed SGA very much, I would have to rank SG-1 and SGU ahead of it. I do wish that Atlantis had gotten a more complete ending though.

[The Dude]

It sounds somewhat cliche but it really is almost impossible for me to rank SG-1 and SG:A (why do I always hyphenate SG-1 but use a colon in SG:A? I don't know it just seems right to me for each case) against each other, like for my trying to decide which Rush album I like best. But if I were actually forced to choose, I would probably(?) go with SG-1 and this only because of Daniel Jackson, who is pretty much the perfect character identification with me. But on the other hand, I also thought SG:A was a bit higher quality storywise. For me, SG-1 seemed to climb upward from season 1 to plateau around season 5, then it jumped up to its apex seasons 7-8, then declined sharply seasons 9-10 (though still enjoyed it). SG:A seemed for me to apex right out of the gate; Rising was just a fantastic pilot- and it continued in a pretty good strength until seasons 4-5 when it began to decline. Interestingly, I've never thought about it but SG-1 began its descent after O'Neill left the show and ran for 2 more seasons before disappearing- SG:A began its descent after Weir left and ran for 2 more seasons before disappearing?

What made SG:A for me was firstly a pretty good run of stories; their were a couple of weaker episodes peppered in the seasons 1-3 run, but even those were pretty okay. I also have always liked the Odyssey-nature of the "microcosm on a ship"- these things are always more intriguing to me when our group is on their own and have become their own "family" as it were. Mkaes things much more interesting to me, and provides a richer sense of allegory.

Also just loved the entire cast pretty much- which is rare for an ensemble. Usually there are one or two (or three) I don't care for (looking at you counsellor Troi) but all of the characters in SG:A I liked. I was even upset when Ford got X'ed but always liked Ronon so I didn't miss him as much. Just a great comradery and good chemistry. All until Weir was gone (you knew it was coming, didn't you?) then everything went to hell. Didn't care one bit for Keller, and even ended up resenting Carter- a character I never thought I'd have any bitter feelings for but, there you have it. Woolsey was cool though- probably because he'll always be the EMH to me.

So seasons 4-5 of SG:A were to me much the same as SG-1 seasons 9-10; not bad, but, just a void left by the departure of O'Neill and Weir, and mixed with some odd storylines which didn't jibe well with what came before. Even now as the rewatch is going on I'm still feeling it watching season 4 of SG:A. This utterly empty Atlantis feeling. It's like, everything is wrong here. This is so wrong, this has to be an alternate reality SG:A. But, what are you going to do, right?

[Snowman37]

While I enjoyed SGA very much, I would have to rank SG-1 and SGU ahead of it. I do wish that Atlantis had gotten a more complete ending though.

Now see, this is interesting. Why are SG-1 and SGU better? SG-1, I get, but SGU? Clarify, please. Was it the more serious tone?

It sounds somewhat cliche but it really is almost impossible for me to rank SG-1 and SG:A (why do I always hyphenate SG-1 but use a colon in SG:A? I don't know it just seems right to me for each case) against each other, like for my trying to decide which Rush album I like best.

Who says you have to choose? If you like them equally, cool. No one's to say you can't.

But if I were actually forced to choose, I would probably(?) go with SG-1 and this only because of Daniel Jackson, who is pretty much the perfect character identification with me. But on the other hand, I also thought SG:A was a bit higher quality storywise. For me, SG-1 seemed to climb upward from season 1 to plateau around season 5, then it jumped up to its apex seasons 7-8, then declined sharply seasons 9-10 (though still enjoyed it). SG:A seemed for me to apex right out of the gate; Rising was just a fantastic pilot...

I agree with you for the most part. I'd also add that for me, the prime difference between the shows was that SG-1 had a slower pacing (compared to Atlantis) and greater emotional depth. On the other hand, Atlantis excelled by diving into the mythology of the Ancients, answering the question of where they moved on to (I always assumed their moving on was ascension), introducing villains scarier than the Goa'uld (the Wraith), and so on. It was a bigger show despite the shorter run.

...and it continued in a pretty good strength until seasons 4-5 when it began to decline. Interestingly, I've never thought about it but SG-1 began its descent after O'Neill left the show and ran for 2 more seasons before disappearing- SG:A began its descent after Weir left and ran for 2 more seasons before disappearing?

SG-1 came to a fantastic ending with the eighth season. It really should have ended there, but SciFi wanted to keep the show going. I think the problems with the later seasons came from too many changes. We lost Hammond after "Lost City" and O'Neill after "Moebius, Part 2." We've got two new regulars, Mitchell and Landry. Vala shows up in a big recurring role, becoming a regular the following season. The Goa'uld are virtually gone except for Ba'al and the Trust. The Ori are front and center, evil ascended Ancients, but with a similar structure to the Goa'uld. Think of the Ori's Priors as Goa'uld and the Soldiers as Jaffa. The Ori ships were as scary and powerful as the Goa'uld ships were in the early seasons of SG-1.

Now, when it comes to Atlantis, the show wasn't retooled that drastically. The city was relocated, protecting it in that no one knew where it was where as before, everyone knew where it was. The other big change was the cast. Though Weir was a big part of the show, I wouldn't compare her to O'Neill. She was the expedition leader and the expert on the Ancients, culturally speaking. I'd compare her departure to Hammond or Jackson leaving SG-1. SG-1's loosing O'Neill would be more comparable to SGA loosing Sheppard or McKay (the writers' favorite character). Did changing up the cast damage the quality of the show? I don't think so. To those who do, please... tell us how so. I'm curious.

What made SG:A for me was firstly a pretty good run of stories; their were a couple of weaker episodes peppered in the seasons 1-3 run, but even those were pretty okay. I also have always liked the Odyssey-nature of the "microcosm on a ship"- these things are always more intriguing to me when our group is on their own and have become their own "family" as it were. Mkaes things much more interesting to me, and provides a richer sense of allegory.

Also just loved the entire cast pretty much- which is rare for an ensemble. Usually there are one or two (or three) I don't care for (looking at you counsellor Troi) but all of the characters in SG:A I liked. I was even upset when Ford got X'ed but always liked Ronon so I didn't miss him as much. Just a great comradery and good chemistry. All until Weir was gone (you knew it was coming, didn't you?) then everything went to hell.

I pretty much agree with you, but I didn't mind Ford being written out. The character was too bland, and I think the writers just didn't know what to do with him. Rainbow Sun Franks did great acting, though, so the character was still interesting to watch while he lasted. As for Weir, I didn't see it coming. If not for GateWorld, I'd have been caught entirely off gaurd when the fourth season began with Torri Higginson as a "guest star." I wouldn't say everything went to hell. Though I was upset with Weir's departure, I quite liked the addition of Carter. Besides, the writers had been wanting to cross Carter over for a recurring role the previous year. With SG-1 over, they could cross her over as a regular. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of Weir, but... sometimes actors get dropped from a show. It happens.

Didn't care one bit for Keller, and even ended up resenting Carter- a character I never thought I'd have any bitter feelings for but, there you have it. Woolsey was cool though- probably because he'll always be the EMH to me.

What was wrong with Keller? What was wrong with Carter's role in the fourth season? Was it that the producers replaced Weir with Carter, or was it how Carter was written from episode to episode? Perhaps Woolsey was also cool, because he was replacing Carter, someone whom you had bitter feelings toward for replacing Weir?

So seasons 4-5 of SG:A were to me much the same as SG-1 seasons 9-10; not bad, but, just a void left by the departure of O'Neill and Weir, and mixed with some odd storylines which didn't jibe well with what came before. Even now as the rewatch is going on I'm still feeling it watching season 4 of SG:A. This utterly empty Atlantis feeling. It's like, everything is wrong here. This is so wrong, this has to be an alternate reality SG:A. But, what are you going to do, right?

I guess the drop in quallity is mostly associated with the change in cast? My mom never liked rotating casts either, so I know how you feel. I think Weir's departure might have been received better if her recurring role had been handled better. After she was captured in "Lifeline," how did the writers bring her back? She returns as a clone only to die at the end of the episode. The clone is told that her original self was killed shortly after being captured. Weir is dead? A cameo at the end of the next episode. Weir, another clone, or an Asuran copy? Eh? The season ends without a follow up. What was the point of the cameo? In the fifth year, a final appearance... Weir is purely Asuran, and to stop the last of the Asurans; they're all spat out of a spacegate. Weir's frozen forever? What kind of ending is that? Her departure in "Lifeline" was brilliant. It was her three subsequent appearances that were a let down.

[rushy]

SG-1: This series is naturally the heart of the Stargate franchise. I liked it from the very start(the 1994 movie) and I kept watching until the end. The only season I didn't like much was the fourth(too much comedy). I also disliked how they threw the word "careful" out of the window by season 6. Come on, in early seasons you started a friggin' self-destruct whenever there was an incoming wormhole and these days you just put on the uniform, grab a P90 and go without even looking at MALP telemetry? I hated how cocky SG-1 got. Other than that, I liked all main characters(maybe except Landry and Dr. Kim). The Ori seasons were weak but not bad.

SGA: The first SG series I watched, SGA caught my attention right away. It was just pure adventure and greatness and mystery ESPECIALLY in season 1. However, I think that they ruined a significant portion of the show by giving Atlantis contact with Earth, not to mention the Daedalus(granted, a spaceship is needed, but can't you just use the Orion for that??). Also, season 1 was the only season in which the Wraith were creepy(remember when Wraith cocoons were made of webs, not gum?). Another bad thing about the other seasons was the removal of Ford, one of my fav characters. I for one thought that the only ep he was underused in was Home(he was the only character whose viewpoint wasn't followed). Ronon was a fine character and all, but Ford was awesome. One more bad thing: Kolya's death. He was the best SGA villain and he dies in a friggin' CAMEO ROLE.

SGU: My favourite SG series. My favourite. It was just fantastic(CANCELED?!??!?!?!?!). Rush was easily the best character in the franchise, Destiny was the best setting. The only rly bad eps were the ones that had too much Earth interference(Earth, Life, Gauntlet). I liked basically all the characters and I can really relate to Eli. Can't figure out what else to say other than CANCELED?!?!?!?!?!.

[Flyboy]

I give it 2 days before this thread explodes.

[jelgate]

I give it 2 days before this thread explodes.

I give it the end of the day.

SGA is below SG1 and SGU but above SGI. After S1 the show seemed to have no direction. SG1 was episodic but at least it had arcs and character development. SGA was all over the place after The Atlantis Siege. No direction in stories and it seemed characters grew only to be reset thier orginal character personality. I'm looking at you McKay

[Arica15]

Easy - Loved SGA(First two seasons and 2/3 of the third especially), really really liked SG-1.

Trying to forget SGU ever existed

[Lythisrose]

Have said it before, love SGA the best (my favorite characters), liked SG1 (the earlier years) a great deal and have no real interest in SGU.

[YceQueen]

I absolutely LOVE Atlantis, it has some of my favorite characters and episodes. But it had a lot of weaknesses (is that even a word?), and several characters ruined it severly for me. For me, it's;
Stargate SG1
Stargate Universe
Stargate Atlantis

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I've always found it extremely difficult to separate SG-1 and SGA in my head in terms of which one I liked better. Both were fairly similar in style and formula, and it honestly never occurred to me that I might not enjoy SGA when I first started watching it. I enjoyed all 15 seasons of both shows. Despite the fact that I developed different issues with either show, I still tend to think of them as essentially the same in terms of quality.

I watched the first 3 Seasons of SGA on DVD concurrently with the last 3 seasons of SG-1 on DVD and would alternate between shows in no real order and found during the first two there was really no preference between them at all so it was hard to chose which episode I felt like seeing. I think in Season 3 of SGA I found I was very slightly more interested in the SG-1's Season 10 Ori storyline more, but looking back on both shows now after both are off the air I find my interest in Stargate Atlantis remains much stronger for whatever reason.

So if I were to rate them in order of personal preference I'd probably say about equal for the first two shows and SGU is a distant third.

The final two seasons of Atlantis were the only two seasons of those shows I felt like I had major mixed feelings about (despite still really enjoying them) and they were probably where I felt most like analyzing them. I don't think the show ever fully recovered all of what it lost when Weir left the cast, but those seasons did also have some of the most enjoyable parts of the show for me too. And I did like the darker tone. I thought Carter's inclusion was an ill conceived idea from the start and found in practice having her there didn't work as well as it could have. Woolsey (surprisingly) was a huge improvement but I still felt the cast chemistry was better with Weir. On the plus side, I thought the escalating conflict was cool and bringing in Todd as a recurring character was brilliant. The subtle shift in Sheppard after losing Weir was perhaps what stood out the most though. It was probably too subtle, but I think it arguably made him the most interesting of all 3 male action hero leads.

So In the end I feel like Stargate Atlantis was where the PTB did their best and worst work.

[The Urban Spaceman]

I think my thoughts are pretty much the same as yours, in that I really enjoyed everything SG1 right upto the Ori plot, at which point it really went downhill for me. But upto that point, I think SG1 pushed a lot of boundaries and had some fantastic plots (I loved everything Tok'Ra and everything Asgard) and some very good character development (Teal'c) but also some very bad character development (Daniel) -- the former I felt was good because his character got background and depth and really became someone I cared about, whereas the latter I felt went from an innocent, hopeful, geeky young man to a bitter, sarcastic wannabe bad-ass, and they should have kept Jonas instead of bringing Daniel back.

Anyway, I felt that Atlantis had a lot of good character development too, but I also have a soft spot for 'survival' shows -- I think it really gives us an insight into the human psyche. In many ways, Atlantis' tone was darker than SG1's, but it often showed the best of humanity, such as people sticking up for each other and sacrificing for each other.

SGU turned this on its head. The whole show was dark, showing us the worst of humanity, with the 'sacrifice' moments standing out because they were so rare. The one character I actually liked was Eli, and I didn't really care for anyone else. S2 was much better than S1, but it still wasn't upto the same level as SG1 or SGA. In many ways it seemed to be Lost (in space -- No pun intended) only without the clever writing, character back-stories, or suspense and mystery of Lost.

Another factor that tips SGA in my favour is its great supporting characters; Zolenka, Lorne, Todd, Caldwell, etc. SG1 only really has a couple that I like (Davies, Agent Barrett) and let's face it, SGU doesn't really have any. All in all, I mostly like SGA more than SG1, except some of the SG1 eps which are great. And I'd take both (not including last 2 seasons of SG1) over SGU.