Successor to Weir on Antarctica Base?

[The Urban Spaceman]

Thus, you mean that the Ancients seeded the MW galaxy BEFORE the plaque forced them to either ascend or migrate to Pegasus, and then the Lanteans in Pegasus seeded that galaxy with human DNA once they got to Pegasus?

It's never explicitly stated in the series but since the Lantean survivors returned to Earth only 10,000 years ago, and yet we have archaelogical evidence of human activities stretching back at least 30,000 years, it's clear that Earth, at least, was seeded with life, though whether other planets were also seeded, or just not as far along in their development, is not as clear.

What about the galaxy of Celestes of the Ori?

I don't know, you would probably have to watch all of the SG1 films for answers. I've only seen one of them. I surmise that since it is the original Ori/Alteran home galaxy, the Ori/Alterans evolved there, either alongside humans or were humans who became isolated on one or two worlds and, due to environmental factors, changed gradually over generations to allow them to develop and gain ESP-like powers and eventually ascend. Or perhaps they simply seeded their galaxy with human life after they reached a certain level of their evolution. Again, I don't think it's clearly mentioned in the franchise.

And the original humans hosted by the Wraith DNA were also either Ancients or seeded DNA?

It stands to reason that if the Wraith developed by the iratus bug feeding off human-type life forms, those life forms were either Lanteans or humans created by them.

If so, that means that all humankind descended from the DNA of the Ancients/Lanteans. But in that case, how is it that only certain Earth humans had the special DNA to operate Atlantis technology? Why didn't all humans have it?

Because that is how genetic inheritance works. The ATA gene is something specific to Alterans/Lanteans. Only those people whose ancient ancestors were Alterans/Lanteans got the gene. Not everybody on Earth was decided from Lanteans, because there were only a handful of Lantean survivors who returned to Earth, and even fewer of them who chose to inter-breed with humans.

And does the scenario of seeding mean that people like the Aschens didn't know anything about the Ancients, the goa'ulds, Ori or Wraith? All they knew about was depleting other planets through sterility.

The Aschen did not evolve separately due to seeding by the Ancients. It's more than likely that they, like the Tollan and some of the other technologically advanced humans in the MW, were simply transported from Earth to other planets several thousand years ago by the Goa'uld who enslaved them. Either they overthrew their goa'uld masters or the goa'uld abandoned them when they lost their usefulness. Either way, because their societies developed in different ways (lacking dark ages, crusades, plagues, etc) they were able to advance faster and with no setbacks.

Hmmm......come to think of it, THERE is a good story line for eliminating the Wraith........sterilization.

Rendered moot by Wraith cloning technology.

And does this mean that no humans were seeded on the other galaxies, i.e. of the Asgard, Replicators, etc.?

Probably not, but it's never specifically addressed in-series.

You may find this link useful. It is Stargate wiki. It will be easier for you to find answers here for your billion questions than waiting for somebody to come along and answer them in-thread: http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Stargate_Wiki

[Dave2]

Thank you for your clarifications. I am sure that it is helpful to many more people than just myself who have the same or similar questions. It is hard to keep track of all the different aspects devised or implied by the scripts.
I am just not clear on why not all humans would have had the Ancient DNA if all humans on Earth had originally been Ancients or seeded by Ancients long before the plague or the departure of the survivors.
My memory tells me that the Aschens never heard of the goa'uld. This was discussed in that episode when SG1 went to the planet to meet the Aschen and mentioned their enemies the goa'uld. The Aashen never heard of them. That suggests that their alliance of planets were a segment of populated planets in the MW that had never had contact with the goa'uld.

[Snowman37]

I think I am following you. So in fact the source of all humans in the universe was from the Ancients (leaving aside Asgard, Wraith, Unas), but the Lanteans themselves had no knowledge of how they originated (i.e. in the Garden of Eden).

It's not that they do not know, but rather... their original origin was simply never revealed to the audience. However, it's not unreasonable to conclude that Celestus is the original homeworld of the Ancients.

The reality on Earth at the time of the first Atlantis visit with Weir ceased to exist, as would the reality of Earth when the first SG1 team got stuck in ancient Egypt. There's no chance those original realities could have continued. Which is why I thought that the SG1 team after Moebius was not the identical one as the SG1 team BEFORE Moebius.

Let's take one character for example: Jack O'Neill. Whether it's General O'Neill who dies in ancient Egypt, Bizarro O'Neill who lives out his life in ancient Egypt, or General O'Neill who never has to go back in time; they're all the same guy. The question is, how far can the timeline deviate before it becomes unacceptable to the time travelers? The alternate timeline where the SGC never happened is clearly unacceptable, because it means the Goa'uld and Replicators were never defeated. Granted, it also means the Replicators and Ori never discovered the Milky Way. In the final timeline from "Moebius," the changes to the timeline are so minimal, they are inconsequential. Everyone tends to think of SG-1 at the end of "Moebius, Part 2" as a second version of the original SG-1. Not so. Think of them as the original team, only their history was slightly altered by the appearance of SG-1 and then bizarro SG-1 minus Jackson. As O'Neill pointed out, great, they don't have to do anything.

What exactly does seeding mean? The humans in the Pegasus and MW galaxies are the same species/race descended from the Lanteans then? Does that mean that if the Lanteans seeded the Milky Way with created humans then they must have encountered the planet with the Goa'uld along the way, no?

None of this was really explained. We got vague references to seeding humanity on alien worlds, but that was all. Presumably, the Ancients would have found the Goa'uld / Unas homeworld, but likely before the Goa'uld learned to take the Unas as hosts. The Unas might not have yet evolved into people. This is if you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution as the writers do (I don't). Remember, the Ancients weren't known as the Lanteans until after their move to Pegasus. The "Ancients" were originally known as the Alterans, having left their home galaxy and colonizing Milky Way. Thanks to the plague, the survivors packed up in Atlantis and flew off to Pegasus where they'd be known as the Lanteans. Ultimately, the Wraith finished them off. The survivors fleed to back to Earth where their civilization effectively faded out within a few generations.

I just saw The Brotherhood and couldn't help but wonder why the team could not take the proper precautions even from the so-called Daganian brotherhood (sisterhood) when obtaining the ZPM. And how foolish and reckless of McKay to have spilled the beans about Atlantis.

The Brotherhood wouldn't have been an issue if McKay had kept his mouth shut. Thanks, McKay!

I also can't get over the resemblance of the voice and facial gestures of Kolya/Robert Davi to those of Leonard Nimoy.

The actor does have a Nimoy thing going, doesn't he? You'll be seeing more of him. He's a recurring villain for Sheppard up until the third season. He makes a final appearance in the fifth season, but it's a great twist in how he's brought back. haha

Then there is the question about the approaching hive ships (why do they get called hives anyway?).
Couldn't they evacuate the 200 people on the planet and close down Atlantis for a while, going elsewhere through the stargate since they have 2 weeks? I know that would ruin the scripts for the next episodes, but I wonder within the context of the story itself!

I don't know why they're called hives, probably because their society is similar to insect structures such as ants and bees? The problem with abandoning Atlantis is that it's effectively handing over the city to the Wraith.

After all, what good is a planet without people to the Wraith anyway? What could thos dumb brutes do with Atlantis?

First off, the Atlantis stargate is the only one which can connect to Earth. It makes you wonder, though, why they don't erase the gate coordinates and hide the special crystal that allows the eighth chevron to lock. Later episodes will reveal that the Wraith are far more than dumb brutes.

Thus, you mean that the Ancients seeded the MW galaxy BEFORE the plaque forced them to either ascend or migrate to Pegasus, and then the Lanteans in Pegasus seeded that galaxy with human DNA once they got to Pegasus?

Yes, the Ancients seeded the Milky Way galaxy before the plague forced them off to the Pegasus galaxy. Atlantis episodes seems to imply that ascension wasn't discovered until after the Lanteans set up their empire in Pegasus.

What about the galaxy of Celestes of the Ori?

Their home galaxy, revealed in SG-1's final seasons and The Ark of Truth.

And the original humans hosted by the Wraith DNA were also either Ancients or seeded DNA?

They don't have the Ancient gene. Presumably, humans evolved on a world with the Iratus bug. Rather than humans turning into Wraith, it's suggested that the Iratus bugs slowly evolved into the Wraith. This is something that will be explored as the series progresses. You'll also learn something interesting about Teyla and her Wraith-sensing ability.

If so, that means that all humankind descended from the DNA of the Ancients/Lanteans. But in that case, how is it that only certain Earth humans had the special DNA to operate Atlantis technology? Why didn't all humans have it?

Honestly, I never got the whole "Ancients" vs. "Humans" thing. Ancients have the gene, but humans don't. What is the difference between Ancient and Human? Ancients are just evolved humans? This all never made much sense to me. Maybe someone could explain this better than I can.

And does the scenario of seeding mean that people like the Aschens didn't know anything about the Ancients, the goa'ulds, Ori or Wraith? All they knew about was depleting other planets through sterility. Hmmm......come to think of it, THERE is a good story line for eliminating the Wraith........sterilization.

Yeah, the Goa'uld, Wraith, Ori, Asgard, and so on knew about the Ancients. However, most human populations did not except for Earth and a few select worlds. In the Pegasus galaxy, the Ancients were more commonly known.

And does this mean that no humans were seeded on the other galaxies, i.e. of the Asgard, Replicators, etc.?

Presumably, humanity only spanned three galaxies: the Ori home galaxy (name?), Milky Way, and finally Pegasus. Stargate: Universe adds to this, but one show at a time.

I am just not clear on why not all humans would have had the Ancient DNA if all humans on Earth had originally been Ancients or seeded by Ancients long before the plague or the departure of the survivors.

Humanity on Earth is refered to as the second evolution, spread across the galaxy by the Goa'uld. What the second evolution means, I have no idea. The writers like to throw around phrases such as that without ever really explaining what it means. hah

My memory tells me that the Aschens never heard of the goa'uld. This was discussed in that episode when SG1 went to the planet to meet the Aschen and mentioned their enemies the goa'uld. The Aashen never heard of them. That suggests that their alliance of planets were a segment of populated planets in the MW that had never had contact with the goa'uld.

There's all kinds of explanations for this. Were they second-evolution humans who fled through Earth's antarctic stargate before it was buried in ice? Did Ra relocate them only for them to be forgotten early on by the Goa'uld? This origin could have been lost to history early on in many different ways. Did the Asgard put them there? Who knows!

[Dave2]

I would like to think that the SG story writers appreciated and even now appreciate the input viewers have with their storylines. So I see that the humans of the MW galaxy were virtually all spread around thanks to the goa'uld and not to the seeding. And the Alterans were the earliest Ancients before they arrived on Earth from their original planet happily escaping their conflict with the Ori long before the plague. But did the stargates get built in the two galaxies in the very earliest period when the Ori and Ancients were still together as one people? I assume that the ORIGINAL purpose of the stargate was simply to facilitate interaction among all the humans on many different planets, though if we assume more than thousands of planets with stargates this kind of interaction would seem to be impossible from a practical point of view.

On the matter of disease, bacteria etc. from planet to planet. I wonder why the wriiters didn't have the idea of a DECONTAMINATION cubicle right off the stargate at SGC so that at least anyone coming through would have to be isolated immediately and checked for any bugs coming through. It's not enough to be checked out in the sick bay by Dr. Fraiser or whomever. And for that matter it should have occurred to the ancients who built the stargates to provide for decontamination. Maybe it happens in the molecular process of going through the gate.
But would I have even gone to Jonas Quinn's planet (gee, such a nice American name) without Hazmat gear or risked drinking their water or eating their food? Not me!

[Snowman37]

I would like to think that the SG story writers appreciated and even now appreciate the input viewers have with their storylines.

I'm sure they are!

So I see that the humans of the MW galaxy were virtually all spread around thanks to the goa'uld and not to the seeding.

The implication is that the plague wiped out human life throughout the Milky Way galaxy except for Earth. Atlantis flew off to Pegasus to start over. Millions of years later, human life evolved again on Earth. The Goa'uld eventually found Earth and spread humanity across the galaxy.

And the Alterans were the earliest Ancients before they arrived on Earth from their original planet happily escaping their conflict with the Ori long before the plague.

Bingo. In one episode or the movie, it's revealed that the Alterans first settled on Dakara. For unknown reasons, Earth eventually became the capital of their civilization.

But did the stargates get built in the two galaxies in the very earliest period when the Ori and Ancients were still together as one people?

There is a blink and you miss it scene in The Ark of Truth, during a flashback scene, where the guy who invented the ark forgot his notebook. When he reaches for it, the camera pans to the notebook which shows conceptual drawings of a stargate. The implication is that the Ancients did not develop stargates until after their arrival in the Milky Way galaxy. Presumably, the Ori developed stargates on their own.

I assume that the ORIGINAL purpose of the stargate was simply to facilitate interaction among all the humans on many different planets, though if we assume more than thousands of planets with stargates this kind of interaction would seem to be impossible from a practical point of view.

Quite simply, the stargates were created to eliminate the need to zip around the galaxy via starship. Need to travel to X planet? Dial up the stargate and step through!

On the matter of disease, bacteria etc. from planet to planet. I wonder why the wriiters didn't have the idea of a DECONTAMINATION cubicle right off the stargate at SGC so that at least anyone coming through would have to be isolated immediately and checked for any bugs coming through. It's not enough to be checked out in the sick bay by Dr. Fraiser or whomever. And for that matter it should have occurred to the ancients who built the stargates to provide for decontamination. Maybe it happens in the molecular process of going through the gate.

The stargate doesn't filter out contaminations. You do have a point. A simple solution on a TV budget would be to quarantine incoming travelers in the stargate room while people in hazmat suits check them out. However, it's a TV show, and certain liberties are taken to move the story forward. For example, everyone speaks perfect English across the galaxy. haha

But would I have even gone to Jonas Quinn's planet (gee, such a nice American name) without Hazmat gear or risked drinking their water or eating their food? Not me!

I feel the same way about visiting a foreign country! Granted, minus the hazmat suit. haha It's not that other countries are dirty, but rather... when you travel to a foreign land, you're not going to be as prepared for the local dangers as those who live there.

[The Urban Spaceman]

I am just not clear on why not all humans would have had the Ancient DNA if all humans on Earth had originally been Ancients or seeded by Ancients long before the plague or the departure of the survivors.

Because the Ancients seeded human life. They didn't clone themselves to do that, therefore there are genetic differences between humans and Ancients. Even the Ancients themselves weren't always as they are, as evidenced by the much older Destiny technology which does not use any ATA gene technology, requiring instead a direct neural interface with the chair occupant's mind. Either the Ancients only later discovered a way of linking technology specifically to their genetic marker (the ATA gene), or they only gained the ATA gene at a later stage, along with their progressive evolution which gave them ESP-like powers. Possibly a combination of both.

At any rate, it's far more likely that the Ancients seeded planets with simple DNA which was more similar to their earlier form rather than their more advanced, near-ascension form. We already know that they were big on people "making it on their own" and not taking short cuts, so why would they bother seeding planets with Ancient life? There's nowhere for them to evolve to.

Really, you need to finish watching Atlantis because some of your questions are answered there. The rest of it is just scientific speculation.

My memory tells me that the Aschens never heard of the goa'uld. This was discussed in that episode when SG1 went to the planet to meet the Aschen and mentioned their enemies the goa'uld. The Aashen never heard of them. That suggests that their alliance of planets were a segment of populated planets in the MW that had never had contact with the goa'uld.

It never crossed your mind that the people who deceived the inhabitants of multiple worlds, sterilised them under the guise of innoculating them, and tried to character assassinate anybody who stood in their way, may have lied about certain things?

[Dave2]

Thank you for the clarification. It's interesting that the Ancients/Lanteans/Alterans would not have wanted the new human race to have their own DNA.......and that the Ashens might have known about the Goa'uld and not been afraid of them. Too bad we never found out what happened to the ambassador who got stuck with the Ashens and the natives on their depopulated planet......They could have been a good storyline for another SG1 season or instead of all the ascended Anubis stuff (which I found rather boring).

[Dave2]

Just watched Letters from Pegasus as recommended by Snowman. Since we see a cameo shot of Walter and Sam at the end when the information goes through the stargate, why wouldn't this have shown up on SG1, especially since the storyline would have wanted SG1 to spend time analyzing the information that they received?? But this data from Rodney was never discussed on SG1 as far as I remember.

[Snowman37]

"Letters from Pegasus" aired the same night as SG-1's "Reckoning, Part 2." Though we didn't see SG-1 going over the databurst, we did see an urgency to get a ZPM for Atlantis ASAP. The whole ZPM heist time-travel adventure gone wrong in "Moebius" was provoked by the databurst sent to the SGC in "Letters from Pegasus." See the connection here? Now, in case you forgot, SG-1 had successfully recovered the ZPM from Ra by the end of "Moebius, Part 2." SG-1's "Moebius" two-parter was intended to immediately preceed SGA's "The Siege" trilogy.

[Dave2]

I don't even remember anything about Atlantis as the reason for wanting to get Ra's ZPM or mention of the databurst, or the Wraith in Moebius or anywhere else.
However, it was rather reckless to attempt a trip in time knowing the possible down side for the ultimate future. Who would want to take risks like that?!

"Letters from Pegasus" aired the same night as SG-1's "Reckoning, Part 2." Though we didn't see SG-1 going over the databurst, we did see an urgency to get a ZPM for Atlantis ASAP. The whole ZPM heist time-travel adventure gone wrong in "Moebius" was provoked by the databurst sent to the SGC in "Letters from Pegasus." See the connection here? Now, in case you forgot, SG-1 had successfully recovered the ZPM from Ra by the end of "Moebius, Part 2." SG-1's "Moebius" two-parter was intended to immediately preceed SGA's "The Siege" trilogy.

[Snowman37]

Well, remember, SG-1 was intended to be ending as Atlantis ended it's first season. That's probably why references to Atlantis didn't factor in to "Moebius." However, there was the ZPM recovered, and talk of Earth's second starship: the Daedalus. The ZPM and Carter looking at Daedalus schematics foreshadow events to come in SGA's "The Siege" trilogy.

Who would risk screwing up the future? Well... General O'Neill. haha

[Dave2]

Snowman, I am about to dive into The Siege. What I wonder about though is why the Wraith would dedicate so much hardware and manpower to Atlantis just for the purpose of scooping up what we are told is a total of about 200 people??
And if my memory serves me correctly, although I remember the visit of SG1 to Atlantis, I don't recall an episode having them go there to defend against the Wraith.

[Snowman37]

Snowman, I am about to dive into The Siege. What I wonder about though is why the Wraith would dedicate so much hardware and manpower to Atlantis just for the purpose of scooping up what we are told is a total of about 200 people??

The Wraith do not tolerate any society that can technologically rival them. They are either culled or destroyed. Also, the Wraith have two goals in mind. The first is to take Atlantis as a prize and use the stargate to dial up the Milky Way for new feeding grounds. Plan B is to destroy the city and get back to business as usual.

And if my memory serves me correctly, although I remember the visit of SG1 to Atlantis, I don't recall an episode having them go there to defend against the Wraith.

The only time SG-1, as a team, went to Atlantis was in 10-3 "The Pegasus Project." The episode takes place after the opening two episodes of Atlantis's third season. In "The Siege" trilogy, it won't be the SG-1 team who comes marching through. You would have heard about it on SG-1 had it been them. No, it's something far more interesting. "The Siege, Part 3" also introduces a fantastic recurring character played by Mitch Pillegi. He played Mulder and Scully's boss, Walter Skinner, on The X Files for nine years.

[Dave2]

Could the Wraith get to the Milky Way if they can't find a ZPM to go through a stargate or through hyperspace? BTW, who introduced them to stargates and do they have any actual settlements of their own on planets which could be destroyed while they hibernate for a few thousand years??

[Snowman37]

The Wraith can get to the Milky Way via hyperspace if they know where Earth is and had ships fast enough to get there. This will be touched upon in at least two episodes later in the series. I don't think it was ever revealed how the Wraith first came across the stargate network. In the first episode, it was mentioned that the Lanteans had, "...stepped foot upon a dark world where a terrible enemy slept." Presumably, the Lanteans made the Wraith aware of the stargates. The Wraith only have settlements when they hibernate. Once woken by the Atlantis Expedition, they mostly reside in space. Sometimes ships land, and there are outposts here and there, but that's all. As for when they are hibernating, it's implied that the hives retreat to the home world for the duration.