International law versus wraith

[WraithRichard]

I have read everything in this thread. Plus as a probie I cannot send messages. I thought you would know this. Why is my counter argument a mistake of common since, spacing tok ra wrong? really? I am not here to insult you, if you want me to pop off this thread say so, don’t beat around the bush trying to bully me off.

I'm not trying to Bully you off. The spelling seemed intentionally, lazy is all your arguments reflect that you didn't read the posts or even watch the show. (I also don't check people's status, so I don't notice if someone's a probie).

The Atlantis expedition was almost given to them by the ancients. They knew what Daniel was capable of and finally threw down in the war with the Ori so I am not too sure that they would really mind them being there in the first place. Atlantis was put on trial in episode "Inquisition" by the main governmental authorities of the Pegasus galaxy in which ruled in favor of the Atlantians in which they became a military alliance.

True, but having Atlantis doesn't make you king of the Galaxy was my point. The coalition was pushed into this view, albeit for the wrong reasons by the wrong people.

NO, meat is no longer necessary to survive.

Yes, it is. Humans are omnivores and those who don't eat meat do it by choice, but have to learn how to keep up with us meat-eaters when it comes to nutrition. Many studies have been done on the effects of lacking certain parts of diet and lack of meat quickly results in the body thinking it's starving. Sex drives plummet, the brain gets very lazy, women miss periods, and after long periods of meatless famine osteoporosis sets in. It's also important for the immune system and growing babies, so birth rates fall rapidly.

That is so far from the truth. Bio-engineered foods are our sad but true future.

How are they sad?

Animal extinction is inevitable even now our domestic farm animals are becoming extinct.

No, they're not. We constantly produce surplusses of livestock.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2007/0...88022920070905

“Farm scientists warned on Monday that hardy breeds of livestock vital for world food supplies were dying out across developing countries, especially in Africa, and called for the creation of regional gene banks to save them.”

BREEDS, not necessarily numbers.

Could the wraith not just produce a human farm through genetics?

No. How would that not be just a human farm? Humans are difficult to farm

In fact that would elevate them from hunters to farmers?

And why do vegans and vegheads have no problem sustaining themselves even during pregnancy?

Because they work hard at monitoring their diets very closely. They know they constantly need to work on keeping up their protein intake daily, which us omnivores don't need to watch. This is often done with pills, shakes, or protein bars.

Humans do not need meat to survive. Cooking in cast iron pans gives the human body more iron for god sakes.

Not enough. That's like saying there's water in plants so you don't need to drink. We do need meat. Some people can survive on regulated does of synthetic meat, but the production is more cost-effective than just eating meat.

Birthrate? are you serious? Where is the statistical proof?

Any statistics on famine and pregnancy. Check the birthrate during the middle ages and factor in soap and antibiotics.

"Dried beans and dark green leafy vegetables are especially good sources of iron, even better on a per calorie basis than meat. Iron absorption is increased markedly by eating foods containing vitamin C along with foods containing iron. Vegetarians do not have a higher incidence of iron deficiency than do meat eaters."

So instead of eating most any meat, you have to eat certain veggies and more of them. Do beans have enough saturated fat? What about protein?

Don't get me wrong, I love meat but learning how to eat differently takes a bit of brain growth.

And a lot of time and constant planning. I don't blame my friends for being vegan or vegetarian, but they all have to do more to compensate, whatever their strategy for that is. We're still omnivores by biology terms. It can be tricked, but it takes up a lot of time, effort, and resources.

Yes, Todd was more or less an advocate for the drug that would take this dependency from them but in a societal perspective, if were able to gain a large enough clan and promote his power, would his objectivity still be coherent?

Huh? Are we back to the troll argument that humans keep these guys sentient, or is there a typo? Why would he change his mind, personal, intellectual, or analytical about anything just because he can eat something besides humans? I'm very confused.

The show demonstrates the importance of fallowing up on ones word throughout the franchise, and in Todd’s case and the Atlantians it seemed pretty unstable. One in which would make it hard to begin negotiations. Basically Todd was reminiscent of Baal character in SG1.

He wasn't like Baal at all. He took several risks in dealing with Atlantis, trusting them a lot until the Attero device was turned on and twice after that he decided they would be a better option than slowly dying.

One thing to consider with the wraith is that Todd was not empathetic until he was starved,

There's no proof of this. By your logic, he was not empathetic until he was starved and then fed on the same person he became empathetic to.

same with Elie. They were both starved to a point of clarity.

It was shown several times Ellia was 'clear' long before starvation.

Your comments reflect that you haven't seen the show in the slightest.

[Ripley2012]

Your comments reflect that you haven't seen the show in the slightest.

My comments simply state that I did not perceive the show as you did.

[WraithRichard]

My comments simply state that I did not perceive the show as you did.

No, that was your third statement that went contrary to actually having seen the show regardless of interpretation.

[Skie]

I just realized we do have examples of human societies, which resemble Wraith behavior very closely. Think of tribes which practiced cannibalism (cooked dead or alive?) or the Aztecs, which sacrificed (and maybe tortured?) a lot of their prisoners for their sun god. Now their society were totally capable of empathy, they cared about their children, mother, fathers etc. but were still able to eat or sacrifice members of their own species. How did they do that? By detaching themselves from their victims and incorporating those practice in their customs. And the Wraiths usually don't even eat other Wraiths but members of an OTHER species. So as said before I believe the Wraith society is not deprived of empathy.

Yes that is correct but humans have evolved to a point were meat is no longer necessary. Doesn't consciously aware mean trying to actually evolve to a great plain of existence?

You mean like a higher level of consciousness, like Ascension?
Then not necessarily, the question is if you want to achieve that.

If I were born a wraith, and I was able to acknowledge the act of taking the life of self aware food and seeing the need to hibernate because of the lack of credible food in the Pegasus galaxy, I would find a more efficient way to produce food.

We don't know if the Wraith not already tried. It would make sense that they did as this hibernation thing is not really an ideal situation. So it could well be that they tried but were not successful. And as I said before, if it is common practice in your culture to feed on humans, you probably won't even consider an alternative or even think about feeding on humans being wrong. Otherwise cannibalism couldn't have existed so long in human societies.

The Atlantis expedition was almost given to them by the ancients. They knew what Daniel was capable of and finally threw down in the war with the Ori so I am not too sure that they would really mind them being there in the first place. Atlantis was put on trial in episode "Inquisition" by the main governmental authorities of the Pegasus galaxy in which ruled in favor of the Atlantians in which they became a military alliance.

They wouldn't mind it until they behaved like those moral jerks they were in the end. In S1 the expedition at least mentioned and discussed moral issues but starting with Michael they obliviously believed that moral issues only count when dealing with the same species (or even not then as shown by the events in CONDEMNED). If they were this fifth species the Asgards believed them to be, A LOT of their decisions would have been different.

Could the wraith not just produce a human farm through genetics? In fact that would elevate them from hunters to farmers?

Uh, personally I believe hunting humans is ethically far better then farming humans. Would you really want to grow up as some livestock in a industrial livestock farming complex, instead of growing up in a human society?

Yes, Todd was more or less an advocate for the drug that would take this dependency from them but in a societal perspective, if were able to gain a large enough clan and promote his power, would his objectivity still be coherent? The show demonstrates the importance of fallowing up on ones word throughout the franchise, and in Todd’s case and the Atlantians it seemed pretty unstable. One in which would make it hard to begin negotiations. Basically Todd was reminiscent of Baal character in SG1.

Well, if you had been treated like he was by the Atlanteans, I'm sure you would be very cautious and see the relationships as unstable even dangerous for your life. He contacted them and wanted to have discussing his proposal on neutral ground, instead he his captured, threatened to kill, lost his hive, was starved with no hope to leave again until the Atlanteans needed his help. And suddenly he was treated like an Ally should be. Then he lost two of his ships again thanks to the Atlanteans (the Attero device was activated by McKay even though they knew it had great consequences and Daniel was no better by agreeing) and they even said they had nothing to do with this and never apologized for that. Then he takes the treatment and seeks help and what do they do? Gladly killing his whole crew instead of helping and Sheppard even lies about that to Todd. So yeah, I would definitely be VERY WARY about this so-called relationship if I was Todd.

One thing to consider with the wraith is that Todd was not empathetic until he was starved, same with Elie. They were both starved to a point of clarity.

You cannot starting to develop empathy if you don't have the prerequisites for it. And as I mentioned in my earlier post why should he show empathy towards Sheppard if not because he already had it before starvation. And Elia showed she didn't want to feed on her foster father before she severely starved. And she took the retrovirus EVEN THOUGH she was NOT starving but despised herself for feeding on humans.
And if you are beyond your point of clarity, I doubt that you then show empathy, more likely madness.

[WraithRichard]

Well, if you had been treated like he was by the Atlanteans, I'm sure you would be very cautious and see the relationships as unstable even dangerous for your life. He contacted them and wanted to have discussing his proposal on neutral ground, instead he his captured, threatened to kill, lost his hive, was starved with no hope to leave again until the Atlanteans needed his help. And suddenly he was treated like an Ally should be. Then he lost two of his ships again thanks to the Atlanteans (the Attero device was activated by McKay even though they knew it had great consequences and Daniel was no better by agreeing) and they even said they had nothing to do with this and never apologized for that. Then he takes the treatment and seeks help and what do they do? Gladly killing his whole crew instead of helping and Sheppard even lies about that to Todd. So yeah, I would definitely be VERY WARY about this so-called relationship if I was Todd.

Todd got even more crap from them. He wasn't treated like an ally when they wanted the wraith to join the replicator war, the second they rescue him the put a gun to his head and threaten to kill him (they've done this more than once), they wanted to blow up his ship of sick wraiths and use the gene therapy as a weapon, made a point of not being honest to him when he was dying and asked for respect of all things, was only allowed to leave to find a hypothetical cure because they thought it didn't exist despite him agreeing to save their lives, knowing he'd wind back up in prison with no way to get out, and they've stolen his hive ship three times (or so). That's like being a friend who helps you when you get mugged, only to take your car, set it on fire, and lie about who did it.

And if you are beyond your point of clarity, I doubt that you then show empathy, more likely madness.

Wasn't it established in Vegas that you starve them to the point of the opposite of clarity?