Why do people have so much hate for season 5?

[VampyreWraith]

I think inconsistency was an overall problem for season five. Not only for Jennifer as a character. But I agree, Jennifer's character seemed to change from episode to episode.

Agreed

Actually, I, personally, quite liked her as a character in The Shrine. I think it (the episode) would get third place in my ranking of best S5 episodes. I liked "The Shrine". It was the perfect ideological debate of modern science with medicine and old believes with medicine, coupled with unexplainable things. I thought, Jennifer, as a modern doctor, conveyed the idea of modern science and medicine. I believed that she did it right. I also thought it was interesting to see that the problem was more complexed than one would think 'cause of the attachment of Jennifer to Rodney. I think, again, this was well portrayed on the screen by Jewel as Jennifer. I also believe that Jennifer was the character she should be in The Shrine. Self-assured for what happens in her field, convinced, secure... but on the other hand also with her weaknesses.

For me would've liked The Shrine better if there was a little more to the conversation with Jeannie. It would've been private with someone who also cared for Rodney, so I thought it would've been a perfect time to explain her feelling for Rodney and how it might have been affected her judgement regarding his treatment. I know she made a brief comment about not seeing the signs soon enough, but I just wish it went into it more. Also, they've all been in Atlantis long enough to have seen a lot of weird almost magical things, I felt it would've made more sense to at least be curious about it especially when rodney had so little time left. Thats Just how I felt about that. That whole thing just really, really bothered me. Oh and the "I love you" from Rodney would've sounded better and less out of the blue if it was more like a "Your a beautiful person, I think I love you" or something along those lines; as long as the word "think " was included somewhere. Thats just how I felt about the episode but I liked the The Shrine otherwise.

Well you know how I feel about the whole lurrvee triangle of doom... (If not go read my posts in this thread earlier).

LOL, I don't know if that particular love triangle went over well with anyone.

While BrainStorm was not really a good episode, more like avarage, or a little below it even, I did like "Jennifer and Rodney" in it. I thought at least BrainStorm was an episode where they seemed to be less "forcefully put together". It felt more as the characters wanted to be together instead of the usual, the writers want them to be together. I've always thought the McKeller relationship was a good idea, in theory, while the on-screen portrayal was OTT, OOC, not subtle enough, sabotaged by the triangle of doom and the inconsistency of the characters, lacking the momentum I wanted to see... etc. However, I thought, that in BrainStorm the relationship was bearable. The opening scene, for example, should have been a bit shorter maybe, without the whole Ronon-jealousy-triangle-part, however, I thought this was a good scene for the couple, only at the wrong time. We've should have seen little scenes like this much earlier. Just short moments, but instead it always seemed as if: This episode we're going to have a lot of McKeller on screen that comes out of nowhere, or this episode we're going to have a lot of Jennifer/Ronon+triangle on screen that comes out of nowhere, or this episode we're just going to ignore it all...

With BrainStorm, my main issue there is that episode is solely about Jennifer and Rodney. In any other other season I might not have disliked it so much; but since it was in the last season of the series, for me it basically put a spotlight on what I felt was a big problem with the last season; lack of team and an imbalance in character focus. But I do agree that the pairing seemed the least forced in this episode, and I didn't mind their interaction so much since it was outside of work.(The scene on the hive in Infection bothered me more than anything that happened between them in BrainStorm) If the whole relationship was handled better as a whole and BrainStorm wasn't in the last season; it might have gone over better for a lot more people. I agree with the rest of what you said here though.

Ronon's character lost a lot in season five. Too bad I think, they should have gotten rid of the triangle and grumpy Ronon, and given him something to do, and some story, and some more development instead of putting him back in the stone age...



Yes, I agree, season five episodes could work very good individually, but they don't fit previous-seasons or same-season.

Agree with all this too. Ronon seemed to de-evolve in Season 5, and ended up getting lost somewhere.

[Jper]

Jper - BREATH!

Almost forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder. *breaths*

Pfft, too much shows I've watched have been canceled without a satisfying ending or last season.

And I hate SGA's final episode!

[Linda06]

*blinks*

I see you've given this much thought MacGyver

I would have someone else do the dying part in The Shrine, Rodney had his shot in Tao of Rodney Let someone else have something substantial to do for once

And I agree, give Keller a more consistent development. I wouldn't have had her so insecure in the first place. These guys are supposed to be the best of the best. It's ok to be a little apprehensive about going to Atlantis or going through the gate to other worlds, we saw that on occasion with Carson, but they at least have to have confidence in their abilities. It doesn't give one confidence when the CMO is unsure of her own abilities. Make Keller stronger mentally and not the female version of McKay (sorry but that's how I saw Keller *shrugs*)

I wouldn't let Vegas see the light of day, or at the very least have it earlier in the season, half the team shouldn't be missing in the penultimate episode

Never ever in a million years show Brain Storm, Whispers, Inquisition, Identity, Ghost in the machine and EATG ever again

Never ever try and write romance...EVER

Stop putting Keller in the middle of the woods all the time to be rescued by the big strong men

Show us more of Lorne We didn't see him much in season 5

Take out that scene in S&R where John dreams about having dinner with Teyla Yeah way to go giving us hope then ripping our hearts out

Give Teyla and Ronon something to do other than babysitting Atlantis and grunting and standing there and looking pretty.

Oh yes and......NO BLOODY LOVE TRIANGLE OF DOOM PLEASE

And also no romances appearing outta thin air

[Linda06]

Almost forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder. *breaths*

Pfft, too much shows I've watched have been canceled without a satisfying ending or last season.

And I hate SGA's final episode!

*cough* TSCC *cough*

[Jper]

For me would've liked The Shrine better if there was a little more to the conversation with Jeannie. It would've been private with someone who also cared for Rodney, so I thought it would've been a perfect time to explain her feelling for Rodney and how it might have been affected her judgement regarding his treatment. I know she made a brief comment about not seeing the signs soon enough, but I just wish it went into it more.

I think she (Jennifer) was afraid to lose him "as a patient". For us and others it was clear that she (Jennifer) cared, but she did not say it. If she (Jennifer) had said it, then, for Jennifer, it would have felt like "giving him up as a patient". By not sayin' it, and tryin' to ignore conscious thoughts about it she wanted to keep her professionalism and her option to treat Rodney. She wanted to be his doctor. I don't think Jeanie-Jennifer needed anymore conversation. IMHO it was pretty clear (to Jeannie). Sayin' it would not have been good imho.

Look at how it played out, Jeannie intervened. She did what Jennifer couldn't 'cause she was caught in between "friend/lover" and "doctor". And she knew she needed her "doctor" mode to help him, while she also wanted to be his "friend". I think Jeannie understood perfectly. I think this was one of the better episodes of season five. Letting Jennifer sayin' it would have ruined the subtlety. The "reading in between the lines".

Also, they've all been in Atlantis long enough to have seen a lot of weird almost magical things, I felt it would've made more sense to at least be curious about it especially when rodney had so little time left. Thats Just how I felt about that. That whole thing just really, really bothered me.

Jennifer is new. Plus, they've always been really skeptical about "magic" things, even though there were lots before. Not to mention, the fact that the legend/story said there would only be one day! Imagine having to make that decision. Jennifer couldn't. I don't know if I could do either. It's pretty difficult.

Oh and the "I love you" from Rodney would've sounded better and less out of the blue if it was more like a "Your a beautiful person, I think I love you" or something along those lines; as long as the word "think " was included somewhere. Thats just how I felt about the episode but I liked the The Shrine otherwise.

I think the wording had to be different to make sure the audience realized he was really really dying and that he really thought he would otherwise never remember again. Not to mention I'd have liked more previous build-up in previous episodes.

With BrainStorm, my main issue there is that episode is solely about Jennifer and Rodney. In any other other season I might not have disliked it so much; but since it was in the last season of the series, for me it basically put a spotlight on what I felt was a big problem with the last season; lack of team and an imbalance in character focus. But I do agree that the pairing seemed the least forced in this episode, and I didn't mind their interaction so much since it was outside of work.(The scene on the hive in Infection bothered me more than anything that happened between them in BrainStorm) If the whole relationship was handled better as a whole and BrainStorm wasn't in the last season; it might have gone over better for a lot more people. I agree with the rest of what you said here though.

[Falcon Horus]

Hey, I want one selfish indulgence... I'd do a Ripple Effect and bring back Kate who's happily engaged to Teyla in the other universe.

Oh wait - that's what fanfic is for - nevermind.

Can I keep FRAN?

[Jper]

I see you've given this much thought MacGyver

Yes I have. Also, Goldfish, I'm sure we've talked about similar subject like this before. Don't you remember? (Don't answer that. )

I would have someone else do the dying part in The Shrine, Rodney had his shot in Tao of Rodney Let someone else have something substantial to do for once

That was way too long ago, and I was going with the general story-line of the episode.

And I agree, give Keller a more consistent development. I wouldn't have had her so insecure in the first place. These guys are supposed to be the best of the best. It's ok to be a little apprehensive about going to Atlantis or going through the gate to other worlds, we saw that on occasion with Carson, but they at least have to have confidence in their abilities. It doesn't give one confidence when the CMO is unsure of her own abilities. Make Keller stronger mentally and not the female version of McKay (sorry but that's how I saw Keller *shrugs*)

I wouldn't let Vegas see the light of day, or at the very least have it earlier in the season, half the team shouldn't be missing in the penultimate episode

Well lots of people liked it. Me included. However, yes, I'd have put it into slot number thirteen, for example, with then fourteen being the first part of the follow-up of Vegas, then a break and then fifteen.

Never ever in a million years show Brain Storm, Whispers, Inquisition, Identity, Ghost in the machine and EATG ever again

I agree. Although I like Jennifer and Rodney in BrainStorm, the episode itself... not really.

About Whispers, though, the all-female team... come on...

Never ever try and write romance...EVER

Well I'd say: get someone else to write it and help you with it. They've should have know that by then. *cough*8 seasons Jack-Sam without any result in the end*cough*

Stop putting Keller in the middle of the woods all the time to be rescued by the big strong men

I'd vote for you as the next writer for SGA for this alone... Urgh... I hated that. Once is okay, the fourth time not really. And always the same old woods and trees. I swear I recognized some from in the days of SG1!!

Give Teyla and Ronon something to do other than babysitting Atlantis and grunting and standing there and looking pretty.

Oh yes and......NO BLOODY LOVE TRIANGLE OF DOOM PLEASE

*cough* TSCC *cough*

*cries*

[VampyreWraith]

Jper we'll have to agree to dissagree on Jennifer's part in the The Shrine. Maybe one day I'll see it differently, but not right now lol I'd green you, but I can't right now; I really think your responses on here have been very well thought out and you make a lot of sense, even if I don't necessarily agree with you on all counts.

[Jper]

Jper we'll have to agree to dissagree on Jennifer's part in the The Shrine. Maybe one day I'll see it differently, but not right now lol I'd green you, but I can't right now; I really think your responses on here have been very well thought out and you make a lot of sense, even if I don't necessarily agree with you on all counts.

Oh yes, no problem. and thanks.

[Skygate]

I would have fired the entire creative team and hired a new one. New ideas, new blood, revitalize the show so that we could have forgotten about season 4's lesser quality (IMO) and propelled the show onwards to ten seasons like its mother-show.

Who would you have replaced them with?

Any names?

[syfygyrl]

Wow what?

Sorry, wow as in: Did you put together that completely detailed & interesting list yourself? Wow!

[Falcon Horus]

I would have kept Ken Cuperus for starters (he wrote the base for ... err... that season 3 episode with all those people stored in a capsule and Sheppard had to land the thing).

Jane Espenson - who's one of the people behind Warehouse 13 but just keeps popping up on my radar left, right and center

Ron Moore - missed the ball on BSG perhaps a few times (season 3 - I'd rather forget about that season) but he would get an invitation to the team

Bear McCreary can do the soundtrack - nothing against Joel Goldsmith but I'd like some fresh themes.

I would also bring back Jill Blotevogel, who was a member of the production team (I think) in season 1.

Martin Wood always did a good job on the directing front.

I'd add Russel T. Davies to the writers (Mr. I re-invented Doctor Who).

Just a few that I can name... and that episode name is going to haunt me for the rest of the night. I'm better looking it up... ... The Ark - thank you GW.

[jelgate]

I would have kept Ken Cuperus for starters (he wrote the base for ... err... that season 3 episode with all those people stored in a capsule and Sheppard had to land the thing).

Jane Espenson - who's one of the people behind Warehouse 13 but just keeps popping up on my radar left, right and centerRon Moore - missed the ball on BSG perhaps a few times (season 3 - I'd rather forget about that season) but he would get an invitation to the team

Bear McCreary can do the soundtrack - nothing against Joel Goldsmith but I'd like some fresh themes.

I would also bring back Jill Blotevogel, who was a member of the production team (I think) in season 1.

Martin Wood always did a good job on the directing front.

I'd add Russel T. Davies to the writers (Mr. I re-invented Doctor Who).

Just a few that I can name... and that episode name is going to haunt me for the rest of the night. I'm better looking it up... ... The Ark - thank you GW.

Barely. She vaguely came up with the idea of W13 and wrote part of the pilot and then left

[Linda06]

Yes I have. Also, Goldfish, I'm sure we've talked about similar subject like this before. Don't you remember? (Don't answer that. )

Oh we probably have Oh right I wasn't to answer that

That was way too long ago, and I was going with the general story-line of the episode.

Ah right, as for the dying part. I think Daniel still rules the roost on that

Well lots of people liked it. Me included. However, yes, I'd have put it into slot number thirteen, for example, with then fourteen being the first part of the follow-up of Vegas, then a break and then fifteen.

I was in the hated it with a burning passion of a thousand suns camp To me it had nothing to do with "our" characters, they were just some alternate versions. Like Teal'c said "Ours is the only universe of consequence....Or, something along those lines Half of it didn't make sense. It was like a bad ep of CSI LV, there was way too much sand, half the team was missing yet they found room to include Todd Too much sand (did I say that already?) heh, can you tell I have issues with this ep?

I maybe wouldn't have had such and issue with it if they shoved it somewhere in the middle.

I agree. Although I like Jennifer and Rodney in BrainStorm, the episode itself... not really.

Well you know how feel about this particular ship so I won't elaborate But the ep itself was pointless and stupid and made no sense whatsoever.

About Whispers, though, the all-female team... come on...

Men It may have been a better ep if they actually made it even a litle scary and didn't have Carson and John act like an ass when they met the team. I still don't understand why Ronon and Teyla weren't with them though. I mean they knew it was one of Michaels labs right? So wouldn't it have been more prudent to have some more protection with them. They should know by now what Michael is like.

Well I'd say: get someone else to write it and help you with it. They've should have know that by then. *cough*8 seasons Jack-Sam without any result in the end*cough*

The current PTB should never write romance, bring someone in who can actually write it in a good and mature way, that I can agree to Ah yes, Jack/Sam who can forget But I do still enjoy that ship, even if thing did string us along for about 50 years

I'd vote for you as the next writer for SGA for this alone... Urgh... I hated that. Once is okay, the fourth time not really. And always the same old woods and trees. I swear I recognized some from in the days of SG1!!

Wasn't that the tree in that SG-1 ep.....uh what was it called....You know....That one where they were in the woods

[Linda06]

I would have kept Ken Cuperus for starters (he wrote the base for ... err... that season 3 episode with all those people stored in a capsule and Sheppard had to land the thing).

Jane Espenson - who's one of the people behind Warehouse 13 but just keeps popping up on my radar left, right and center

Ron Moore - missed the ball on BSG perhaps a few times (season 3 - I'd rather forget about that season) but he would get an invitation to the team

Bear McCreary can do the soundtrack - nothing against Joel Goldsmith but I'd like some fresh themes.

I would also bring back Jill Blotevogel, who was a member of the production team (I think) in season 1.

Martin Wood always did a good job on the directing front.

I'd add Russel T. Davies to the writers (Mr. I re-invented Doctor Who).

Just a few that I can name... and that episode name is going to haunt me for the rest of the night. I'm better looking it up... ... The Ark - thank you GW.

And I think it was Ken Cuperus that wrote Submersion if I recall correctly.

EDIT: And of course you can keep FRAN