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Did TPTB focus on McKay (and McKeller) destroy Stargate Atlantis in your opinion.

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    A random babbling a few minutes after rewatching the whole 5 seasons.

    I just got to the end of S5 and it´s not as bad as I remember, but I definitely think that the last 5 or so episodes missed something. I loved team scenes, McKay/Sheppard arguing and teasing and the last scene with them doing something funny and interesting and friendly was their car models chase in The Prodigal. And that was it.

    Identity was a horrible episode. Not only they had to save Keller AGAIN but it was overall a bad episode. All actors were obviously bored to death - I can´t say if Joe, David and Jewel just acted in characters who are "annoyed" by the situation in the episode or if it was a result of boredom of the actors to do *this* again. They really seemed just to repeat their lines and didn´t care how it looked.
    Not mentioning the fact that Sheppard didn´t support Rodney at all (it would be a great opportunity for some character moments) and when that thief woman (don´t remember her name) said "you can do better" or whatever, it annoyed me because is it really THAT impossible for McKay to have a relationship? The writers here made the relationship more or less work in the terms of "geek gets a girl" and then they make fun from it like it is something funny. It´s not. I think it was a nice touch that McKay was able to get from S1 socially awkward person to a man with friends and family.
    But then, in Identity, they not only brought back Ronon into a game - I felt sorry for Rodney because even when he had Keller, he still doubted it with Ronon constantly around. I hated it. I mean, wouldn´t be better to make Ronon a friend and "the man" and make to tell Rodney "look, I care for Jennifer but she wants you and I am here just to ask how is she doing." Is it so difficult?

    For elliecat: Brainstorm isn´t as bad for Rodney as a character as it may seem. (I also watched Trio only once and never more). He is the "usual self" in that episode, he complains a lot but this time, he has a full right to complain and actually to be mad. It must be frustrating for him to see how much worse scientists than him get credit for things he has done years ago (and abandoned them because they didn´t work) and can´t tell them.
    Keller was a little annoying (she was like a teacher who has no respect but tries to pretend that she is respected) but I think in the end, it helped Rodney´s character to realize that there are more important things than just to get a credit.
    So no, I wouldn´t doom Brainstorm but it´s not something I would rewatch anytime soon - but never watch the behind the scenes to that episode because Martin Gero obviously loves Keller and his question "what can a girl like her to see at the guy like him" made me think "and what about what can McKay see at a whinny annoying girl like that?". It was obvious that they don´t even take this relationship seriously so how can we?

    The last good team episode was Midway, and mostly because of the nice McKay/Sheppard scenes they had throught the radio. The expression on Rodney´s face after he thought that he just killed Sheppard was exactly the reason why I liked this show. He was concerned and David was great in delivering that. i don´t know what happened that they had to destroy it all by writing another Keller-in-the-woods episode.

    I think writers just were out of the ideas at the end of S5 because they were already focusing at SGU at the time (I guess). I always thought about the SGA as about "the middle child". It is in the shadow of the older sibling and never gets enough love as the youngest.
    Last edited by Klenotka; 23 May 2012, 08:53 AM.


    "No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by the force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power governments, and tyrants, and armies can not stand." - G´Kar, Babylon 5

    Comment


      Originally posted by Klenotka View Post
      I mean, wouldn´t be better to make Ronon a friend and "the man" and make to tell Rodney "look, I care for Jennifer but she wants you and I am here just to ask how is she doing." Is it so difficult?

      Despite my complaints of having to sit through episodes just to get one throw away line of character expansion, this really would have helped the episode. At least it would have looked like they were trying for a point and covered up the lack of followup with Episodes that didn't deal with their relationship
      Price for Pain What do you mean violence isn't the answer?

      Burn It All Away Blood moves the heavens. Fire purifies the land. Legends change worlds. Destiny burns.

      Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Fiat justitia et pereat mundus. Fiat justitia ruat caelum.



      All are PG-13, each with a single act of rated R violence. Adults situations and other, tamer violence.

      Ficta voluptatis causa sint proxima veris


      I'm creating a fan comic and I want input from as many fans as possible. Please PM me if you want the discord link. You can also chat, show off your own creations, and rp.

      Comment


        Originally posted by elliecat View Post
        I hated that bit. You're quite right, he would never have said that to Elizabeth and that would have been fine by me! I will never watch Trio again either, and when I first started watching SGA Rodney was my favourite character. But just couldn't stand what they did with him in Trio. Didn't even want to watch Brainstorm after reading about it. Trio was bad enough but this sounded even worse, just keller and Rodney on Earth getting together, no thankyou! No matter how much I like Rodney, I ain't watching that! I didn't want to dislike my (once) favourite character any more and I fear watching Brainstorm would not help.
        I'm with you, there isn't enough money, wine or chocolate in the world to make me watch Brainstorm again.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Klenotka View Post
          A random babbling a few minutes after rewatching the whole 5 seasons.

          I just got to the end of S5 and it´s not as bad as I remember, but I definitely think that the last 5 or so episodes missed something. I loved team scenes, McKay/Sheppard arguing and teasing and the last scene with them doing something funny and interesting and friendly was their car models chase in The Prodigal. And that was it.

          Identity was a horrible episode. Not only they had to save Keller AGAIN but it was overall a bad episode. All actors were obviously bored to death - I can´t say if Joe, David and Jewel just acted in characters who are "annoyed" by the situation in the episode or if it was a result of boredom of the actors to do *this* again. They really seemed just to repeat their lines and didn´t care how it looked.
          Not mentioning the fact that Sheppard didn´t support Rodney at all (it would be a great opportunity for some character moments) and when that thief woman (don´t remember her name) said "you can do better" or whatever, it annoyed me because is it really THAT impossible for McKay to have a relationship? The writers here made the relationship more or less work in the terms of "geek gets a girl" and then they make fun from it like it is something funny. It´s not. I think it was a nice touch that McKay was able to get from S1 socially awkward person to a man with friends and family.
          But then, in Identity, they not only brought back Ronon into a game - I felt sorry for Rodney because even when he had Keller, he still doubted it with Ronon constantly around. I hated it. I mean, wouldn´t be better to make Ronon a friend and "the man" and make to tell Rodney "look, I care for Jennifer but she wants you and I am here just to ask how is she doing." Is it so difficult?

          For elliecat: Brainstorm isn´t as bad for Rodney as a character as it might seem. (I also watched Trio only once and never more). He is the "usual self" in that episode, he complains a lot but this time, he has a full right to complain and actually to be mad. It must frustrating for him to see how much worse scientists than him get credit for things he has done years ago (and abandoned them because they didn´t work) and can´t tell them.
          Keller was a little annoying (she was like a teacher who has no respect but tries to pretends that she is respected) but I think in the end, it helped Rodney´s character to realize that there are more important things than just to get a credit.
          So no, I wouldn´t doom Brainstorm but it´s not something I would rewatch anytime soon - but never watch the behind the scenes to that episode because Martin Gero obviously loves Keller and his question "what can a girl like her to see at the guy like him" made me think "and what about what can McKay see at a whinny annoying girl like that?". It was obvious that they don´t even take this relationship seriously so how can we?

          The last good team episode was Midway, and mostly because of the nice McKay/Sheppard scenes they had throught the radio. The expression on Rodney´s face after he thought that he just killed Sheppard was exactly the reason why I liked this show. He was concerned and David was great in delivering that. i don´t know what happened that they had to destroy it all by writing another Keller-in-the-woods episode.

          I think writers just were out of the ideas at the end of S5 because they were already focusing at SGU at the time (I guess). I always thought about the SGA as about "the middle child". It is in the shadow of the older sibling and never gets enough love as the youngest.
          Great post, I feel pretty much the same about season 5. Loved the car scene in The Prodigal as was a great McKay/Sheppard friendship moment, which unfortunately were few and far between in season 5 to make way for Keller and Rodney scenes

          Didn't watch Identity either as had read about that one, saving Keller again didn't sound like a very good episode to me. I knew that Ronon and Rodney would be rescuing/fighting over Keller and I really hated that love triangle

          Thanks for the info on Brainstorm, but I hate Keller and just can't watch any scenes with her at all lol. I'm just going to stick to watching the episodes without her and try and remember the nice team and McKay/Sheppard episodes instead The behind the scenes bit with Gero sounds very annoying though, definetly not going to watch that! I thought they had more respect for Rodney than that but sounds like Keller was the new favourite after that comment, hence all the Keller episodes and the love triangle/McKeller stuff.

          Midway is one of my all time favourite episodes (no Keller, no romance). I agree about David's face when he thinks Sheppard is dead, brilliant. Wish they could have done more like this in season 5, just little moments like that instead of, as you said, Keller-in-the-woods episodes.
          Last edited by elliecat; 17 May 2011, 09:15 AM.
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          Comment


            Originally posted by Arica15 View Post
            I'm with you, there isn't enough money, wine or chocolate in the world to make me watch Brainstorm again.
            Very true
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            Comment


              The writers had clearly ran out of ideas by about season 3 and used Rodney as their crutch. Joe Flanigan even went to the writers in season 2 and had to remind them to write for others besides McKay. I don't think it was McKeller that ruined the show. The writers had always been obsessed with McKay and found him the easiest to write for. Before McKeller we had the McSheppard show, that's fine if these are your favourite characters, but many viewers wanted the writers to give equal attention to all the characters and just concentrating on two was just as frustrating as the McKeller show.

              I enjoyed the McKay/Sheppard interaction but my season 3 I was tiring of it. McKay was usually the center of attention with Sheppard as his side kick, the only thing that changed in season 5 was that Keller replaced the role of Sheppard. Many fans gave up and left the show after season 3 because of the lack of attention given to anyone who wasn't called McKay. Sheppard may have gotten a lot of screentime but imo he never really got anything meaty to work with, that always went to McKay.

              Its pretty sad that the writers love to admit that they preferred writing for only one character. Maybe they should have called in new writers who didn't rely on just one character and had the creative ability to write for all their main cast...
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              Comment


                Originally posted by bluealien View Post
                Its pretty sad that the writers love to admit that they preferred writing for only one character. Maybe they should have called in new writers who didn't rely on just one character and had the creative ability to write for all their main cast...
                They weren't just writing for one characters, sadly. They were REWRITING for him. I got into Atlantis a few months ago and now I moved to SG-1. Yes, I'm going backwards, but I'm seeing they just took SG-1 ideas and redid them for Atlantis, even though Atlantis happens when THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER than whatever idiocy drives the plot.

                Was it just me, or were they seriously downplaying the setting, too? No more new worlds, barely any exploration of the city, the wraith are mostly meaningless now, the Genii gave up their antics...
                Price for Pain What do you mean violence isn't the answer?

                Burn It All Away Blood moves the heavens. Fire purifies the land. Legends change worlds. Destiny burns.

                Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Fiat justitia et pereat mundus. Fiat justitia ruat caelum.



                All are PG-13, each with a single act of rated R violence. Adults situations and other, tamer violence.

                Ficta voluptatis causa sint proxima veris


                I'm creating a fan comic and I want input from as many fans as possible. Please PM me if you want the discord link. You can also chat, show off your own creations, and rp.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Arica15 View Post
                  I'm with you, there isn't enough money, wine or chocolate in the world to make me watch Brainstorm again.
                  In the order you stated?
                  Blue is such a nice color, especially if you have wings.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Arica15 View Post
                    I'm with you, there isn't enough money, wine or chocolate in the world to make me watch Brainstorm again.
                    I didn't hate it, but to watch it again, they'd have to add Mr. Lizard and Beakman.
                    Price for Pain What do you mean violence isn't the answer?

                    Burn It All Away Blood moves the heavens. Fire purifies the land. Legends change worlds. Destiny burns.

                    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Fiat justitia et pereat mundus. Fiat justitia ruat caelum.



                    All are PG-13, each with a single act of rated R violence. Adults situations and other, tamer violence.

                    Ficta voluptatis causa sint proxima veris


                    I'm creating a fan comic and I want input from as many fans as possible. Please PM me if you want the discord link. You can also chat, show off your own creations, and rp.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by elliecat View Post
                      Midway is one of my all time favourite episodes (no Keller, no romance). I agree about David's face when he thinks Sheppard is dead, brilliant. Wish they could have done more like this in season 5, just little moments like that instead of, as you said, Keller-in-the-woods episodes.
                      Midway was good for the Sheppard/McKay scenes (but we already know they care about each other, what about some other character interactions) but it didn't do Ronon any good. Him pointing a weapon at Teal'c just because of some comment. That really did it for me. HOW CAN YOU HAVE SOMEONE LIKE HIM, WHO CAN'T CONTROL HIS EMOTIONS AND POINTS HIS GUN AT EVERYTHING NOT ONLY WRAITHS, IN THE "A-TEAM". Not to mention to use Wraiths again as canon fodder, come on, two guys can take care of the whole invasion troupe?!

                      Originally posted by bluealien View Post
                      I enjoyed the McKay/Sheppard interaction but my season 3 I was tiring of it. McKay was usually the center of attention with Sheppard as his side kick, the only thing that changed in season 5 was that Keller replaced the role of Sheppard.
                      I was tired of getting the same overlaying plot: 1) serious problem only McKay can solve it 2) McKay babbles around about not enough time for that and how impossibly difficult it is 3) but miraculously he comes up with the solution in NO TIME
                      Blue is such a nice color, especially if you have wings.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by WraithRichard View Post
                        Was it just me, or were they seriously downplaying the setting, too? No more new worlds, barely any exploration of the city, the wraith are mostly meaningless now, the Genii gave up their antics...
                        I noticed that in S5, too. They spent a lots of time on Wraith ships but it wasn´t necessarily a bad thing. But they used Canadian forrests A LOT in the last season. I mean, they also used them before but they at least tried to make them look like a different planet. I liked when they tried to make a planet a little different, like the rain forrest in Doppleganger or added blue or yellow filter just to make it more interesting. They didn´t do that in S5.

                        I used to hate Season 4 but I can see now that they really tried to write more storylines and wrap them somehow. I just don´t understand how could have SGA declined so quickly in the last 5, 6 episodes. I don´t think it´s the McKeller. McKeller was just one of the consequences (and I actually LOVE Jewel Staite but I think she was too young and I love David and his McKay). They somehow stopped trying or what. I don´t really know but S5 didn´t feel as a team show at all. Even with the whole team on set, they seemed to be four strangers and not people working and living together for five years. And all actors seemed bored at that point. I would think that at least David would enjoy it but he also seemed not to enjoy it anymore.

                        They even made very obvious mistakes - like the Life sign detector that was suddenly used by Zelenka AND Teyla, and what is with that black jacket that McKay started to wear to missions in last ten episodes? It was ridiculous especially in the last episode, when they went to the Hive Ship and McKay walked there with just a handgun and a scanner. It seemed weird especially because he used to wear even P-90 in Seasons 2-4. Did they think that him shooting of a handgun is somehow "cooler" or what?

                        Zelenka was barely present, Chuck was replaced by that Amelia person who got a full name and more lines in one episode than our favorite Chuck the technician had in the whole series. And I could go on.

                        As a fan of McKay or McKay/Sheppard, I didn´t mind the focus on them, or later on McKay because honestly, the end of Season 3, as much as people say was McShepp show, didn´t seem so to me like just McShepp show. I think it was much more a team show and along with Season 1 is it my favorite season. And at least a focus on McKay brought some character moments for everybody, while Keller just broke the whole developed chemistry. Even Carson never got so much attention.
                        And btw., it was really a little annoying when Mckay said "Oh, no." and Ronon asked "What?"...it happened in four or five episodes in row.

                        So, again, McKeller didn´t destroy SGA, the writers did and there were more things that damaged and destroyed it.
                        But the focus just on Keller was a part of it, yes.

                        EDIT: Damn, the rewatching really gave me a big energy to argue about SGA again Sorry about the long posts
                        Last edited by Klenotka; 17 May 2011, 10:56 AM.


                        "No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by the force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power governments, and tyrants, and armies can not stand." - G´Kar, Babylon 5

                        Comment


                          I agree with Skie. When did wraiths turn into foot soldiers, McKay into Scotty, and Ronan into a gangsta?
                          Price for Pain What do you mean violence isn't the answer?

                          Burn It All Away Blood moves the heavens. Fire purifies the land. Legends change worlds. Destiny burns.

                          Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Fiat justitia et pereat mundus. Fiat justitia ruat caelum.



                          All are PG-13, each with a single act of rated R violence. Adults situations and other, tamer violence.

                          Ficta voluptatis causa sint proxima veris


                          I'm creating a fan comic and I want input from as many fans as possible. Please PM me if you want the discord link. You can also chat, show off your own creations, and rp.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Skie View Post
                            Midway was good for the Sheppard/McKay scenes (but we already know they care about each other, what about some other character interactions) but it didn't do Ronon any good. Him pointing a weapon at Teal'c just because of some comment. That really did it for me. HOW CAN YOU HAVE SOMEONE LIKE HIM, WHO CAN'T CONTROL HIS EMOTIONS AND POINTS HIS GUN AT EVERYTHING NOT ONLY WRAITHS, IN THE "A-TEAM". Not to mention to use Wraiths again as canon fodder, come on, two guys can take care of the whole invasion troupe?!



                            I was tired of getting the same overlaying plot: 1) serious problem only McKay can solve it 2) McKay babbles around about not enough time for that and how impossibly difficult it is 3) but miraculously he comes up with the solution in NO TIME
                            Yeah I remember back when one Wraith was deemed scary and took a while to take down. But now even Keller can kill one

                            I still love the (McShep ) show seasons 1-3 and some of 4, but season 5 I really struggled to like any of it.
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                              Originally posted by WraithRichard View Post
                              Was it just me, or were they seriously downplaying the setting, too? No more new worlds, barely any exploration of the city, the wraith are mostly meaningless now, the Genii gave up their antics...
                              Yeah I think they were, I don't know why they gave up on exploring the city as it in itself was like a character. That's another reason season one worked so well as they did use the city more.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by elliecat View Post
                                Yeah I remember back when one Wraith was deemed scary and took a while to take down. But now even Keller can kill one
                                Not to mention the stick fight!

                                Originally posted by elliecat View Post
                                I still love the (McShep ) show seasons 1-3 and some of 4, but season 5 I really struggled to like any of it.
                                Oh, I didn't mind their bantering but I DO mind the same storyline over and over again.
                                Blue is such a nice color, especially if you have wings.

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