Can't watch SGA after seeing BSG...

[Bytor]

Quote:
Why don't they make some real characters development like in BSG, why are they so afraid that their characters do anything (they always survive, thay always stay the same, the only action is pointing a gun and shoot).

Ford. Carson. Weir.


Killing and firing three characters from the show off doesn't constitute development to me.

and revealing somone as a cylon is just awesome character development..., infact i'd dare to say it's too cool for words.

[a6346]

They are 2 completly different series, I love both if I want a light hearted giggle and show that doesn't make me overwellmingley happy I'll watch Stargate the tone is generally the same through it.

But the thing with Battlestar Galactica is yes it is depressing but its a war were the good guys are loosing and there race was masacred. You might feel sad sometimes but when they win a battle you are just as happy as they are, They make you as sad as they are so when they do something brilliant (Resurection ship pt1 & pt2) you are as happy as them. You get a wider range of emotion than Stargate but you can easily get dragged in very deep with the emotion. Were as Stargate is a happy show for the family.

Battlestar Galactica season 1 and 2 were beyond brilliant but season 3 lacked a fair bit, There just seemed to much nothingness going on were they were just waiting for season 4 (Obviose exceptions are Ep1, Ep2 Exodus pt1 & pt2, and the episode about the eye). But I found season 2&4 of Stargate Atlantis equally as drab but season 2 was setting up season 3 which when it came out made both seasons better. Season 4 was just random clutter of episodes that jump all over the place and have no coherence what so ever.

[s09119]

Quote:
Why don't they make some real characters development like in BSG, why are they so afraid that their characters do anything (they always survive, thay always stay the same, the only action is pointing a gun and shoot).

Ford. Carson. Weir.


Killing and firing three characters from the show off doesn't constitute development to me.

He's saying they don't always survive.

[a6346]

Why don't they make some real characters development like in BSG, why are they so afraid that their characters do anything (they always survive, thay always stay the same, the only action is pointing a gun and shoot).

Ford. Carson. Weir.


Killing and firing three characters from the show off doesn't constitute development to me.

Well Carson isn't dead is real body is but he's a clone and therefore not dead. Battlestar Galactica kills off alot a actors in the same roles as Carson and Weir are they weren't main characters just support and recuring characters. Abit like Hammon, Siler and the other one who opens the Iris.

They have a good bit of character development but just because the heros are more realistic and don't change there ideals at the drop of a hat and do something that is completly far out (Micheal killing Wraith which are his own race WTF) Fifth rebelling against the replicators once again far out there.

[s09119]

Well Carson isn't dead is real body is but he's a clone and therefore not dead. Battlestar Galactica kills off alot a actors in the same roles as Carson and Weir are they weren't main characters just support and recuring characters. Abit like Hammon, Siler and the other one who opens the Iris.

They have a good bit of character development but just because the heros are more realistic and don't change there ideals at the drop of a hat and do something that is completly far out (Micheal killing Wraith which are his own race WTF) Fifth rebelling against the replicators once again far out there.

Michael and Fifth are perfectly reasonable; they both felt betrayed by their people. Michael was abandoned by the Wraith after he returned from Atlantis, so he felt no connection there anymore. Humans kill humans here on Earth all the time... so why is it so wrong for him to do the same?

As for Fifth, he felt more human than Replicator, and he wanted the chance to be a part of the group he was drawn to.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

(Micheal killing Wraith which are his own race WTF) Fifth rebelling against the replicators once again far out there.

Michael was outcast and rejected by the other Wraith because of what the humans did to him, he was understandably peed off. Would you be loyal to a society that does that to you?
Fifth was convinced by Carter to help them because he was more human than the others, and the others weren't particularly kind to Fifth I think I should add...

[Cory Holmes]

BSG nausiates me on an ungodly number of levels. The shakey cam/hard zoom style of filming simply must go; it's begun to infect other movies and shows and that is just unallowable.

I find the characters to be flat, boring, and simply unenjoyable. I couldn't bring myself to root for them to win at all.

Lastly, I despise how BSG has all the subtly of a 2x4 to the face. Almost every episode that I saw (and there were a few before I realized it was crap and turned it off) had some serious Writer On Board-ness. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../WriterOnBoard


For me, I find the SGA characters always get a few moments, lines, and acting bits that prove them to be more than the pigeonholed cliche says they should be. That alone makes them far more entertaining that the characters on most shows.

[do not freeze]

So I recently decided to watch BSG. And right now I'm at the beginning of S3. And I can honestly say that Battlestar galactica killed my interest in SGA. BSG has superior actors, way more CGI, better music and above all, great script. The tone in SGA is way off, and the characters are very dull. I mean they're all straight up good guys and the bad guys are always bad. I really loved SGA before BSG but why should I keep watching SGA when I get BAMSR episodes all the time on BSG. The writers of SGA really needs to get their thumb out of their asses and start making some great scripts.
Oh and I just saw Exodus part 2 of BSG and it totally beats anything Stargate has ever put out.

Well, at this point I was absolutely amazed like you are. Then, I finished season 3 and what a let down! From this episode, the show has gone downhill really fast.

[brandnew]

Quote:
Why don't they make some real characters development like in BSG, why are they so afraid that their characters do anything (they always survive, thay always stay the same, the only action is pointing a gun and shoot).

Ford. Carson. Weir.


Killing and firing three characters from the show off doesn't constitute development to me.

Plus, Carson and Weir are still alive last time I checked... But when I said survive, it was maybe a bad word. Actually they don't have to die it's true, it's not character development. But it's the way they survive without any transformations. No matter what happends, they are still exactly the same. You don't feel like any of them is growing up.

[Naonak]

Plus, Carson and Weir are still alive last time I checked...

We don't really know what's going on with Weir, but Carson's a clone... Although personally I side with Rodney, in that it's like he's come back from the dead, but plenty of others feel different.

But when I said survive, it was maybe a bad word. Actually they don't have to die it's true, it's not character development. But it's the way they survive without any transformations. No matter what happends, they are still exactly the same. You don't feel like any of them is growing up.

Really? You don't think McKay and Ronon (the most obvious examples IMO) have developed since they were first introduced?

[Cory Holmes]

No matter what happends, they are still exactly the same. You don't feel like any of them is growing up.

I disagree. I see McKay as having come leaps and bounds from where he started in S1 (not to mention 48 Hours and Redemption II). Weir herself had also grown much more bolder and darker over her run in Atlantis (compare the hand-wringing she had over Kavanaugh in Critical Mass and how she didn't bat an eyelash at double-crossing Ladon in Coup d'Etat). Zelenka has grown a backbone (possibly due to constant berating by McKay [which either toughened his skin or turned him to the Pegasus Galaxy's biggest case of Stockholm Syndrome]).

Again, these changes aren't nearly as in-your-face as BSG does, and that's something I prefer.

[kymeric]

It could be gouging your eyes out form bsg that makes u unable to watch sga after bsg. Cuz that could account for it. Bsg is eye-gougingly bad compared to sga.

Seriously, u know ur watching a soap opera? The main plot on BSG is whos gonna have sex with who, thats a soap. Like what my grandmother watches in afternoons. They fight they bicker, they carry on like 90210 and they sleep around. Occasionally theres a space battle. But BSG is a soap.

Its the lack of eyes from watching a soap not any fault of sga.

[TheHomegaMan]

***SPOILERS ABOUND AHEAD***


I haven't posted on the Gateworld boards in years, but this just had to bring me back.

People seem to hate BSG for the fact that it doesn't follow conventions. It isn't familiar to them, so they lash out and cling to the simplistic shows that require next to nothing from the viewer to understand them. A simple list of the breaks with conventions makes this rather simple.

BSG's tone is dark, while SGA is more about how things work themselves out. When was the last time something truly bad and terrible happened to the SGA team? Ford's ambiguous "I'm gone, but not" type thing? I'm not talking about somebody being kidnapped, when we all knew she'd be back (coughTeylacough). I'm referring to a situation in which you are convinced that a major character is not coming back. Barring the spoilers that some people read for the end of BSG Season 3, many were convinced that Kara died in Maelstrom. The actors on screen, especially Olmos, convinced you that she was dead. Flanigan acted more cavalier and trusted that Ford made it out.

That brings me to my next break with conventions, the issue of the non-heroic protagonists. A recurring theme throughout BSG is that we need to be worthy of survival, yet we consistently act like we have no business going on in life when we engage in typical human pettiness. Unlike many scifi shows of the past decade or show, BSG is as much about the human element as it is about the "other". The development of the Cylon Civil War blows the conflict between Wraith hives or the split among the Replicators out of the water. We get a short explanation for why the hives fight, and if the Replicator separatists get the same treatment that most rebel types get in the Stargate universe, I don't expect much. On the other hand, we see that the Cylons are becoming more like us in their attitudes and actions, both for good and ill. By seeing that happen among the Cylons, they become a mirror for the viewers to consider humanity.

The writers take what on the surface appears to be a dim view of humanity by creating such flawed and prejudiced characters. If you look at the bigger picture, though, you see that the series is as much about the characters struggling to defy that dim view. It is about them trying to prove themselves worthy of their salvation and, in essence, better themselves. SGA lacks that element of introspection. Every single main and somewhat recurring member of the SGA team is a hero with a minor flaw of arrogance or being annoying. We don't see people who come from abusive homes, people questioning who or what they fundamentally are, or anything beyond the surface level of "We're the good guys. We can make ethically questionable decisions once or twice a season, but never revisit the effects of these choices. Now we can avoid appearing as pure heroes while maintaining a superficial role for the writers to handle!"

Those are the major breaks with the conventions, but this thread is filled with other inane criticisms of BSG that really show how people grasp for straws. I'm not going to go back and credit each individual who raised the criticisms, but will instead respond to them.

Unoriginal Villains
SGA started with space vampires, then moved on to a rehash of SG-1's villains, which just so happen to be based off the same mold as BSG's: robots. BSG is constrained by being a reimagining of a previous series. What's SGA's excuse?

Too Dark
Addressed earlier.

Gratuitous Sex
Depends, really. Everyone refers to Kara Thrace with this remark, completely ignoring the fact that she came from an abusive home and used both empty affairs and alcohol to deal with the extreme void in her life. The "too much sex" complaint ignores the reasoning behind it. We understand that SGA takes a far more subtle (read: don't show it beyond kissing) approach to sexuality, but prudishness in one show does not imply that more sex in another show is gratuitous.

Shaky Camera
Minor issue. It adds to the sense of naturalistic science fiction in the show. This concept is alien to many of the die-hard SGA fans. I'll include a link to Ronald D. Moore's comments on the style at the end of this post. Short version of my response: the shaky camera is to avoid the sterile distance that cameras often have from what they show.

No, YOU'RE a Cylon
I get it. I really do. People get comfortable with their characters not changing in any jarring, fundamental manner. I challenge any of you to point out a regular character on SGA who has undergone the type of change that alters the character, and shows that change in subsequent performances. Weir and Ford are no longer regulars. McKay's big shift in character was between being a recurring character on SG-1 and coming to SGA. BSG keeps you wondering. It keeps you guessing. It keeps you thinking. If the shows were magazines, SGA would be The New York Post while BSG would be the New Yorker.

The Soap Opera Criticism
A show about the characters that actually puts focus on the characters is now a soap opera? The main and recurring characters are written as people. People have relationships. People screw up relationships. The closest BSG came to a soap opera was the Sam-Kara-Lee-Dee love quadrangle, which was put to bed less than a season after emerging. The people who only focus on the "who's sleeping with who" aspect are consciously ignoring the rest of the show and taking things out of context. BSG is not a show for people like that.

So Where's YOUR Season 5?
That remark a few pages back was the height of ignorance. Unlike the writers of the Stargate franchise, BSG's writers and show runners know when a story has reached its natural conclusion. Ron Moore mentioned in an interview at one point that he envisioned BSG as a three act story, and that the end of Season 3 represented the start of the third act. The decision to end the show lied with him, and the Scifi Channel respected that choice. With SG-1, they decided to do two more seasons of something new, then get cancelled (mercifully), and had to resort to direct to DVD to finish telling the NEW story they started. BSG is going out on its own terms. How about SG-1? An even better question for the BSG detractors out there: Where's the Peabody for Stargate?

Now that I've gone and written all that, I've more or less come to the basic conclusion that there are those among SGA fans who don't want to challenge their basic ideas. They're comfortable, and don't want that comfort threatened. Good is good. Bad is bad. Characters are who they are. BSG is more of the show for those who want something more out of it. They are willing to have preconceptions challenged. They are willing to watch characters grow over the course of a series. They are willing to accept that mankind is flawed, and won't shy away from such presentations on television.

Should you fall into the category of the complacent television viewer, then by all means stick with SGA. This is what makes you happy. The shallow end of the pool is for those who aren't strong swimmers. The low dive is for the people who are afraid of taking a big leap. BSG is for those who are willing to go beyond what's comfortable. SGA doesn't do anything daring, nor does it make people think. The ones who actively decry BSG in favor of SGA deserve the show they get.

edit: Ron Moore's essay on Naturalistic Science Fiction, as previously promised.

[diane23]

Well, I don't have a lengthy post or anything of that sort. I think the post above this pretty much says it all.
I just think that BSG and SGA are two completely different things, not meant to be compared. Both SGA and SG1 were/are shows that dwell mostly on the lighter side of things. BSG is much more dark, as many people have said. It's a totally different type of show.
I love both of the shows, personally. Both have their highs and lows. Maybe it just depends on who you are and what you like to watch.

[TheHomegaMan]

and revealing somone as a cylon is just awesome character development..., infact i'd dare to say it's too cool for words.

It's OK, Bytor. BSG isn't the show for you. If it was, you'd notice how characters truly developed as a result. Tyrol had his marriage with Cally start to disintegrate, changing his outlook on the world from that of the everyday man to seeing everything as the punchline to some sick cosmic joke. Tory started to convert to monotheism. Anders is dealing with not even knowing who he is anymore. Colonel Tigh's decades long friendship with Adama reaches its most intense strain.

If you can't be bothered to think about a show that makes that simple request of you, please don't comment on it. We don't ask the redneck questions about astrophysics either, so it isn't like we're singling you out.