Was there a reason Col O'Neill gave Maj Sheppard clearance?

[miniglik]

Newbie queston:

I don't know much about SG-1 or Jack O'Neill, and I'm just wondering how it was that he randomly gave Sheppard clearance to wander around the facility in "Rising."

Is he just that whimsicial?
Was it perhaps a hunch about Sheppard?
Plot fairy?

[jenks]

He's that whimsical.

[miniglik]

He's that whimsical.

I suspected as much.

He does this often?

[Jack_Bauer]

I suspected as much.

He does this often?

Yes

[Tupopoflungo]

Col. O'Neill Did not give Maj. Sheppard clearance...

GEN. O'Neill did

But seriously


My theory was thus:

Antarctica = FRAKING COLD!!!!

so instead of forcing Sheppard to sit outside in the cold, he gave him clearance to the facility. while he gave him clearance, he didn't give him a briefing on anything, Sheppard was more or less clueless as to what was going on in the ancient outpost...

I wouldn't say that Jack is just that "whimsical" because when they wanted to use the ZPM he was very firm about not using it...and not in a "whimsical" manner...

[Alipeeps]

I was gonna say, knowing O'Neill, "cos he felt like it" and that's probably part of the reason..

But also, think about it... they just got attacked by the drone. How does O'Neill explain that away? Far better to give the guy clearance and make him aware of how important and secret this project is than to leave him always wondering and speculating about just what the hell is going on up there. You know how they say a little knowledge is dangerous?

[Dumper]

You know how they say a little knowledge is dangerous?

I must be very dangerous then. ........Err hang on a minute.

[TDgamer]

Col. O'Neill Did not give Maj. Sheppard clearance...

GEN. O'Neill did

But seriously


My theory was thus:

Antarctica = FRAKING COLD!!!!

so instead of forcing Sheppard to sit outside in the cold, he gave him clearance to the facility. while he gave him clearance, he didn't give him a briefing on anything, Sheppard was more or less clueless as to what was going on in the ancient outpost...

I wouldn't say that Jack is just that "whimsical" because when they wanted to use the ZPM he was very firm about not using it...and not in a "whimsical" manner...

This is just about right. You have to remember, that BG O'Neill was already on his way to the outpost when the drone attacked them. MAJ Sheppard would have already had clearance well before he was authorized to fly him. He has to. Especially in a situation like that where anything could happen at any moment. The Goa'uld could attack whenever they wanted and if MAJ Sheppard was his Driver/Pilot, he would have had to have been cleared. There is a difference between cleared and briefed though. The whole "You are cleared to be down here, right?" "Yeah, General O'Neill Just gave it to me" was most likely just a joke.

[Alipeeps]

This is just about right. You have to remember, that BG O'Neill was already on his way to the outpost when the drone attacked them. MAJ Sheppard would have already had clearance well before he was authorized to fly him. He has to. Especially in a situation like that where anything could happen at any moment. The Goa'uld could attack whenever they wanted and if MAJ Sheppard was his Driver/Pilot, he would have had to have been cleared. There is a difference between cleared and briefed though. The whole "You are cleared to be down here, right?" "Yeah, General O'Neill Just gave it to me" was most likely just a joke.

I doubt that, to be honest. There would be lots of ferrying of personnel and equipment up to the outpost and I very much doubt all the pilots at McMurdo involved in the ferrying would have been given any kind of clearance "just in case". As far as they'd be concerned, it was simply some top secret hush hush research post.

You're right that cleared doesn't mean briefed - and Sheppard obviously wasn't briefed - but there would have been no reason for O'Neill to clear Sheppard to be inside the outpost (which is specifically what Carson refers to/asks about - clearance to be "down here") and logically O'Neill must have just given that clearance to Sheppard - certainly after the drone attack, probably upon their arrival at the base.

I can imagine it being as simple as them arriving at the base and O'Neill telling Sheppard, "Come with me. This place is top secret. I'm giving you clearance to come inside with me. Keep out of people's way and don't touch anything."

[miniglik]

Sorry for giving O'Neill the wrong rank. Oops.

Anywho, I tend to agree with alipeeps that not everyone who ferried people to the Antartica base would have clearance to go inside. (I'm sure those people would have to have a certain level of clearance -- they're not going to let just anyone land there -- but not enough to look at what's going on there.) Certainly there's a part of the base for "visitors." Somewhere where cargo and people are brought in, searched, etc. before proceeding to the part with the alien artifacts just sitting around. Unless SG-1 says otherwise?

I wouldn't say that Jack is just that "whimsical" because when they wanted to use the ZPM he was very firm about not using it...and not in a "whimsical" manner...

Being whimsical doesn't mean he can't be serious too.

[TDgamer]

I doubt that, to be honest. There would be lots of ferrying of personnel and equipment up to the outpost and I very much doubt all the pilots at McMurdo involved in the ferrying would have been given any kind of clearance "just in case". As far as they'd be concerned, it was simply some top secret hush hush research post.

You're right that cleared doesn't mean briefed - and Sheppard obviously wasn't briefed - but there would have been no reason for O'Neill to clear Sheppard to be inside the outpost (which is specifically what Carson refers to/asks about - clearance to be "down here") and logically O'Neill must have just given that clearance to Sheppard - certainly after the drone attack, probably upon their arrival at the base.

I can imagine it being as simple as them arriving at the base and O'Neill telling Sheppard, "Come with me. This place is top secret. I'm giving you clearance to come inside with me. Keep out of people's way and don't touch anything."

Sorry for giving O'Neill the wrong rank. Oops.

Anywho, I tend to agree with alipeeps that not everyone who ferried people to the Antartica base would have clearance to go inside. (I'm sure those people would have to have a certain level of clearance -- they're not going to let just anyone land there -- but not enough to look at what's going on there.) Certainly there's a part of the base for "visitors." Somewhere where cargo and people are brought in, searched, etc. before proceeding to the part with the alien artifacts just sitting around. Unless SG-1 says otherwise?



Being whimsical doesn't mean he can't be serious too.

You are forgetting something though. Maj Sheppard was not just a ferry. He was a combat pilot (I am pretty sure they either stated or implied Special Forces). That alone gives you clearance.

On top of that, I know guys who are Personal Security Detail here in Iraq. They work in secure buildings. They have to have clearance just to ferry people around. Trust me when I say that chances are that Maj Sheppard had the clearance level to be allowed in there, but it was on a "Need to Know" basis. Until that point, there was no reason for Maj Sheppard to know what was going on down there. BG O'Neill did not give him clearance, he just let him see what he had just experienced. Getting any level of clearance is a long, drawn out process.

Beyond that, it is likely that everyone at the station has some level of clearance, just in case.

[miniglik]

Oh, I see where you're coming from TDGamer. I was using the t.v. trope version of "clearance." I grant that in the real world clearances take months of paperwork and would never be "given" in such a way. But in a fictional world...

But really, when did Sheppard actually "need to know?" O'Neill granted him that access fairly capricously. It made me wonder if it'd ever been implied that there was some level of recognition of the ancestor gene between people who carry it. Or, like I said, pure whimsy.

(Okay, my spouse, who was an officer in an aviation unit, has just piped up to say the pilots that ferried around Generals were still, basicly, glorified "drivers." For what that's worth. We were never told that Maj Sheppard was personal security, were we?)

[TDgamer]

Oh, I see where you're coming from TDGamer. I was using the t.v. trope version of "clearance." I grant that in the real world clearances take months of paperwork and would never be "given" in such a way. But in a fictional world...

But really, when did Sheppard actually "need to know?" O'Neill granted him that access fairly capricously. It made me wonder if it'd ever been implied that there was some level of recognition of the ancestor gene between people who carry it. Or, like I said, pure whimsy.

Maj Sheppard earned the right to know the moment the drone attacked.

(Okay, my spouse, who was an officer in an aviation unit, has just piped up to say the pilots that ferried around Generals were still, basicly, glorified "drivers." For what that's worth. We were never told that Maj Sheppard was personal security, were we?)

I am not sure that he was specifically Personal Security Detail (PSD) for BG O'Neill, but I think that his job was specifically driving senior personnel, or personnel in general. I cannot remember the type of chopper they were in, but I do not remember it being a Cargo type, so it was unlikely that he was carrying equipment.

[Teslan]

Oh, I see where you're coming from TDGamer. I was using the t.v. trope version of "clearance." I grant that in the real world clearances take months of paperwork and would never be "given" in such a way. But in a fictional world...

But really, when did Sheppard actually "need to know?" O'Neill granted him that access fairly capricously. It made me wonder if it'd ever been implied that there was some level of recognition of the ancestor gene between people who carry it. Or, like I said, pure whimsy.

(Okay, my spouse, who was an officer in an aviation unit, has just piped up to say the pilots that ferried around Generals were still, basicly, glorified "drivers." For what that's worth. We were never told that Maj Sheppard was personal security, were we?)

Well, I'm pretty sure it it was never implied that humans who possessed the ancient gene could tell who else had it, but now that you mention it, didn't Chaya sense it in Sheppard? Granted she was an ancient, but maybe it is possible they sense it without even knowing it. So possible, but never really hinted at in the series.

But while TDgamer makes a good point about how much time it would take to get clearance in real life, I think the writers were more or less pointing to the "whimsical" nature of BG Jack. I don't know, maybe the paperwork had already been filled and Jack just didn't bother to tell him until they got there? If that were the case, I could finally stop scratching my head over the scene where Weir says she read Sheppard's file. I always wondered how she got a copy of it so fast after learning about his ancient gene.

[Tupopoflungo]

Sorry for giving O'Neill the wrong rank. Oops.

Anywho, I tend to agree with alipeeps that not everyone who ferried people to the Antartica base would have clearance to go inside. (I'm sure those people would have to have a certain level of clearance -- they're not going to let just anyone land there -- but not enough to look at what's going on there.) Certainly there's a part of the base for "visitors." Somewhere where cargo and people are brought in, searched, etc. before proceeding to the part with the alien artifacts just sitting around. Unless SG-1 says otherwise?



Being whimsical doesn't mean he can't be serious too.

Going back to what I said before about it being cold in antarctica, I think that possibly those who had to bring in supplies just got in, dropped off, and got out, they didn't stick around long, and thus, didn't need clearance. I knew someone who was serving down at McMurdo and he was a pilot who flew to and from often, and the time that they have on the ground is something like 30 minutes...34 if i remember correctly...before they have to take off again before Ice begins to form. I doubt that O'Neill had any idea how long they would be down there, and didn't want Sheppard sitting in the cold for a long time. Thus, he had need for clearance to get inside the outpost, so as not to become a Sheppardsickle... The chopper that they came in would have had to be cleaned off of ice(a long process) before they could take off again...and it would be done by crew members, not Sheppard or O'Neill...thus causing Sheppard to be in the facility even longer, and more than likely seeing more stuff...