Atlantis countdown clock for Konfabulator

[Mio]

That would be why 9x was dropped, and replaced with NT.....

Windows 3.11 > Windows ME <g>

[Anubis]

Windows NT is ok, but its not worth as much as it costs. It still has its problems and patches, but then again, they all do

[petzke_42]

That would be why 9x was dropped, and replaced with NT.....

Windows 3.11 > Windows ME <g>

Haha...yeah, that Windows ME was a work of art...................

I am a windows guy, but I actually would buy a Mac if they weren't more expensive than a pc. Dang Apple for controlling those prices (PC's are more expensive because anyone can build pc parts, whereas Apple are the only people that builds Macs, hence the ability to controls pricing closely. Once people tried to sell kits that allowed one to build a Mac, but I believe they were sued out of existance....by Apple.)

[kree]

Maybe I should have worded it... "Name one *GOOD* thing that Windows can do that a Macintosh can't"... hehe

Last time I checked, you could eject a ZIP/floppy on a windows machine by actually pressing the eject button as opposed to dragging it into the trash can...

Maybe that's not necessarily a "good" thing but it sure is easier, especially for n00bs who have never used a Mac before

[Benjamin]

Wow, we really are OT here.

A lot of misconceptions about Apple. Let me clear a few things up:

1 - There is an eject button on the Mac. There is also a menu to eject discs. You can also drag the disc to the eject icon (trash turns to an eject icon). You may also eject via firmware on boot if you so desire. Pick a method to eject... Just like windows, just like Mac, or just like *nix. Whatever you're comfortable with.

2 - No one mentioned it, but I'm sure it will come up. Yes, you can use two buttons and a scroll wheel with a Macintosh. I honestly don't know why they still ship with a one button mouse, I think that's a little silly.

3 - Windows has never been known as 'easy to use' or 'intuitive' by any means. The GUI has a lack of standards that makes the Mac OS or any other OS that actually follows user workflow completely kick its butt. Little things like every action has a reaction, the way that the eye moves from one icon to another... An actual UI guide that programmers must strictly follow. This ensures that the experience of Mac OS X is second to none. You always know where a widget is on a Mac because it's always in the same place. That's not true of XP programs. I'll grab a few examples on Monday.

3 - I can run almost (I have yet to find one I can't, but there may be one out there) any Windows programs on my Mac, including games. There is no software advantage to Windows at all. I can run almost any *nix program on my Mac. I can run Macintosh programs and some NeXT Step programs on my Mac. If you're wanting the widest range of possible applications, Windows is not where you need to be. Another great option is Linux, as they can run Windows apps too with Wine. So really, Windows has the *least* amount of software that will run under it (you can run some Linux apps, but I have found that support lacking).

4 - The myth that a Mac is more expensive is just that, a myth. There are always two costs to every product: the up front cost, and the total cost of ownership. I'll have to go get some linkage to back this up (I don't have it handy right now), but on average the TCO of a Macintosh is 30% *less* than a Windows machine over the life of 2 years. The cheapest mac is $799 for a desktop, and $999 for a laptop. These prices for the up front cost are more than reasonable, especially considering what you get.

Believe it or not, I'm actually not Anti-Windows. I have a Sony Vaio laptop for testing and R&D purposes. I have so many silly MS certs it's not funny. I know Windows inside out, upside down and backwards. That's why I prefer Macintosh, I know what Windows can and can't do. I have said this many times: try Mac OS X, and if you still like Windows, go back and I'll never bug you again. The response is sometimes "I tried Mac OS X in my school, and it was slow". Yeah, well the fact that you're still in school says one thing, but that aside, when I help my old school with their network, their Windows boxes are slow. Try a *real* machine for a while. Find one on eBay and test her out. If you're not willing to try, that's fine... But you loose all right to ever bash the Macintosh Operating system or Apple's hardware.

And for the record, Mac OS X is not my favorite OS... BeOS is. I don't suggest it to anyone unless they want to tinker, it's not real anymore. It was cool though.

Anyhow, I'll turn my zealotry off and let someone rip into me for a bit Maybe we should move this topic to a different area? Or maybe I should start a different thread? Or maybe I should really just drop it. I mean, who cares? It's just a silly computer.

BJH

[petzke_42]

3 - I can run almost (I have yet to find one I can't, but there may be one out there) any Windows programs on my Mac, including games. There is no software advantage to Windows at all. I can run almost any *nix program on my Mac. I can run Macintosh programs and some NeXT Step programs on my Mac. If you're wanting the widest range of possible applications, Windows is not where you need to be. Another great option is Linux, as they can run Windows apps too with Wine. So really, Windows has the *least* amount of software that will run under it (you can run some Linux apps, but I have found that support lacking).

4 - The myth that a Mac is more expensive is just that, a myth. There are always two costs to every product: the up front cost, and the total cost of ownership. I'll have to go get some linkage to back this up (I don't have it handy right now), but on average the TCO of a Macintosh is 30% *less* than a Windows machine over the life of 2 years. The cheapest mac is $799 for a desktop, and $999 for a laptop. These prices for the up front cost are more than reasonable, especially considering what you get.

Not that I really care, Im not anti any OS, but:

3: Actually, more software is MADE especially for Windows (unless you're including open source, whole 'nother can of worms), and unless you want to get an emulator or whatnot (which is hard for some people), out of the box, more software runs on Windows. With Windows you can also get emulators that will run both Apple and Linux aps (albeit, not very fast at all).

4: Actually they are, read what I said above, and it makes perfect sense. Just one example: Even though they recently dropped their RAM prices, the RAM upgrades you could get with their notebooks, was about 25% MORE than a PC ram upgrade...they smartened up, and dropped the prices to be more competitive.

[Anubis]

Windows - There is a huge amount more of software available for Windows than any other. Recent reports indicate that Microsoft currently rule 90% of the market. However apparently by 2007 that will fall to 47% and Mac will be leading

Mac - The quality of their machines is more than any other. The graphics and resolution is awesome. The design is stylish. There isn't any faults that I have found, except they are at least double the price of a PC

[Benjamin]

Who cares what platform the software is natively written for? If I can run it on my Mac, what's the difference. I have yet to see an emulator that will run Mac OS X on a PC correctly, only the other way around. There is a project to do a full PPC emulation on X86 hardware, but it has issues with Mac OS X running. Last I checked they were able to get it installed and get to the windowlogin, but anything past that was dead. That aside, it's said that there is no 3D acceleration, there is no vector support, and it runs at about 100MHz on the fastest computers they could get it on. Problem is that the PPC design is far more efficient that the X86 architecture, so it's like trying to get enough power out of a Kia engine to keep up with a Porsche. Not going to happen.

The RAM in a Mac is the same exact RAM that you would buy in a PC. Laptops included. That means that the pricing is the exact same. Not sure where you got that tidbit, but it's 100% wrong.

While I personally believe that MS is starting to loose their grip on the OS marketplace, I highly doubt that Apple will become the world leader in computer sales. There's the misconception that they are more expensive (as you yourself posted), that combined with the closed nature of the box, they just won't become the leader here. I'm not a huge Linux fan, but based on where they are and where they have been, I believe that once the problems with the GUI(s) are worked out, we will start to see a huge rising there. Linux has already overtaken the server arena, the desktop space is the next logical choice.

I still can't believe the comment about the RAM. Come on guys, you can research the boxes on apple.com.

[Anubis]

I am soon to be purchasing a iBook but I'm also keeping my PC

[petzke_42]

The RAM in a Mac is the same exact RAM that you would buy in a PC. Laptops included. That means that the pricing is the exact same. Not sure where you got that tidbit, but it's 100% wrong.

There's the misconception that they are more expensive (as you yourself posted), that combined with the closed nature of the box, they just won't become the leader here. I'm not a huge Linux fan, but based on where they are and where they have been, I believe that once the problems with the GUI(s) are worked out, we will start to see a huge rising there. Linux has already overtaken the server arena, the desktop space is the next logical choice.

I still can't believe the comment about the RAM. Come on guys, you can research the boxes on apple.com.

Bah, dont you people READ, I would quote myself, but you can go back and read it yourself. The fact that it IS the same RAM, is why it was so absurd they were charging more. I still can't believe your coments, come on guy, you can compair the boxes on any major retailer site, as well as apple.com

[Benjamin]

Dell - PC 2700 512MB - $148.95 USD
Apple - PC 2700 512MB - $150.00 USD (A whopping $1.05 USD difference)

Not a huge difference there. See, the problem is that you should never buy RAM from any computer manufacturer. Buy direct.

MTG RAM - PC 2700 512MB - Direct price $88.00

How about Gateway? They have a 512MB stick for $160.00 if you like. You can get slower RAM for $130.00 if you want to. Any others you would like me to look up? Why oh why are you buying your RAM direct from the computer manufacturer? Buy it from the memory maker themselves, install it yourself and you're done. I'm not sure about Dell warranty, but Apple warranty does allow you to install RAM in both desktops and laptops. Takes about 10 seconds. I assume the Dell warranty is the same, and while not quite as easy to open the case, it's pretty darn close.

[petzke_42]

Not that I really care, Im not anti any OS, but:

3: Actually, more software is MADE especially for Windows (unless you're including open source, whole 'nother can of worms), and unless you want to get an emulator or whatnot (which is hard for some people), out of the box, more software runs on Windows. With Windows you can also get emulators that will run both Apple and Linux aps (albeit, not very fast at all).

4: Actually they are, read what I said above, and it makes perfect sense. Just one example: Even though they recently dropped their RAM prices, the RAM upgrades you could get with their notebooks, was about 25% MORE than a PC ram upgrade...they smartened up, and dropped the prices to be more competitive.

see bolded above

[Benjamin]

And see my comment about never buying RAM from the computer manufacturer. That's just not a wise move from any vendor.

The drop in RAM prices happen a while ago when Apple's contract with Micron was up.

If you're looking to buy RAM, http://www.ramseeker.com Same RAM, much better prices.

[Selmak]

Benjamin, I used to be like you trying to convince to diehard PC folks to switch to the mac. It is just impossible. It is mostly out of ignorance of the Mac platform. I know diehard PC people have had worse problems on their windows machines (viruses and such) then anything they would experience on the mac. It may be they when they think of macs they don't think of the antiquated OS 9 instead of the almost perfect OS X. I have work with both Windows XP and Mac OS X since they came out and would would choose a Mac any day. There is absolutely nothing you can do on a PC that you can't do on a mac and probably do better on a mac.

[Selmak]

Wow, we really are OT here.

A lot of misconceptions about Apple. Let me clear a few things up:

1 - There is an eject button on the Mac. There is also a menu to eject discs. You can also drag the disc to the eject icon (trash turns to an eject icon). You may also eject via firmware on boot if you so desire. Pick a method to eject... Just like windows, just like Mac, or just like *nix. Whatever you're comfortable with.

2 - No one mentioned it, but I'm sure it will come up. Yes, you can use two buttons and a scroll wheel with a Macintosh. I honestly don't know why they still ship with a one button mouse, I think that's a little silly.

3 - Windows has never been known as 'easy to use' or 'intuitive' by any means. The GUI has a lack of standards that makes the Mac OS or any other OS that actually follows user workflow completely kick its butt. Little things like every action has a reaction, the way that the eye moves from one icon to another... An actual UI guide that programmers must strictly follow. This ensures that the experience of Mac OS X is second to none. You always know where a widget is on a Mac because it's always in the same place. That's not true of XP programs. I'll grab a few examples on Monday.

3 - I can run almost (I have yet to find one I can't, but there may be one out there) any Windows programs on my Mac, including games. There is no software advantage to Windows at all. I can run almost any *nix program on my Mac. I can run Macintosh programs and some NeXT Step programs on my Mac. If you're wanting the widest range of possible applications, Windows is not where you need to be. Another great option is Linux, as they can run Windows apps too with Wine. So really, Windows has the *least* amount of software that will run under it (you can run some Linux apps, but I have found that support lacking).

4 - The myth that a Mac is more expensive is just that, a myth. There are always two costs to every product: the up front cost, and the total cost of ownership. I'll have to go get some linkage to back this up (I don't have it handy right now), but on average the TCO of a Macintosh is 30% *less* than a Windows machine over the life of 2 years. The cheapest mac is $799 for a desktop, and $999 for a laptop. These prices for the up front cost are more than reasonable, especially considering what you get.

Believe it or not, I'm actually not Anti-Windows. I have a Sony Vaio laptop for testing and R&D purposes. I have so many silly MS certs it's not funny. I know Windows inside out, upside down and backwards. That's why I prefer Macintosh, I know what Windows can and can't do. I have said this many times: try Mac OS X, and if you still like Windows, go back and I'll never bug you again. The response is sometimes "I tried Mac OS X in my school, and it was slow". Yeah, well the fact that you're still in school says one thing, but that aside, when I help my old school with their network, their Windows boxes are slow. Try a *real* machine for a while. Find one on eBay and test her out. If you're not willing to try, that's fine... But you loose all right to ever bash the Macintosh Operating system or Apple's hardware.

And for the record, Mac OS X is not my favorite OS... BeOS is. I don't suggest it to anyone unless they want to tinker, it's not real anymore. It was cool though.

Anyhow, I'll turn my zealotry off and let someone rip into me for a bit Maybe we should move this topic to a different area? Or maybe I should start a different thread? Or maybe I should really just drop it. I mean, who cares? It's just a silly computer.

BJH

I couldn't have said it better myself I totally agree on all point and I'm quoting you just because it needs to be said again.