Fans don't have an impact on creative decisions, MALLOZZI says.

[Oreo]

I wouldn't care if he didn't listen if Stargate hasn't become boring and rehashed. Now that that has happened I think he should like to EVERYONE'S opinion.

God help the Stargate franchise, they will kill it just like Star Trek.

[suse]

Oh boohoo. Suck it up; so a big bad producer won't listen to you and do exactly what you say, big freaking deal.

Note that I'm not actually talking to you, minigeek, just The Fans[tm], whoever they are. Apparently, they hate everything.

I mean really, I've had enough of this crap. The producers, directors, writers, prop guys, etc. work hard to give you the show that you like/love/dislike/hate, whatever. And what do we do in return, really? We get to add to their viewer numbers? Oh, a lot of effort that takes. Plop your ass down on the couch and watch. Wow, I so deserve stuff!

I'll get reds for this, and at this point I don't really care anymore. Some of the people (again, not you minigeek) on this board is really starting to piss me off with their victim-playing. So what if the producer doesn't listen to you? Life isn't fair, sometimes you don't get what you want, sometimes you favorite TV characters gets killed off, big deal. I know some has had a pretty strong attachment to the characters, well, I can tell you that that's not very healthy sometimes. I've been in other fandoms, and these things almost never end well.

But I digress. TPTB do see what the fans are posting and I think it does affect what they put out (note that JM said "they don't really have any impact", not zero impact). For instances, I doubt we'll see much more of Lucius, given that I saw Joe say that on one of his recent blogs.

Red away folks!

Actually you got a green from this.

I rather agree. But Sky and scifithinkker also have a point. Ignore trends at your own risk. Ignore that you are assassinating your characters (fan uproar or not) at your own risk. Ignore that you are destroying canon at your own risk.


Yes, I think online fans do have a sense of entitlement at times. But that doesn't mean well-thought out points should be lumped in the same category as say...lemmings.

Really, I doubt TPTB are trying to make a bad show. And I doubt they see SGA as a mere rickety bridge between SG-1 and the so-desired third series. I'd hardly call a series renewed into it's 4th season a stop-gap show. Entirely too much blood and sweat has gone into it. They might see SGA as rickety, but they're the designers and are trying to fix it. Whether what they are doing works or not is anyone's guess.

Notice that when they re-introduced Vala they toned her down. According to what he says it wasn't the fan outrage, but them realizing they needed to tone her down to have her work on the team. Guess what? I rather like her now. It's unfortunate that I'm always on edge waiting for here to say something stupid/uncouth - which is a direct result of them having "fun" with her in S9.

Either way, it's the same end result. And that's what 90% of the viewers care about.

Did you (general) really expect him to say that he listens to fans? because then the ones who didn't get what they wanted will clamour even louder. It's a vicious (sometimes literally ) cycle.

suse

[ShadowMaat]

Hell SG1 being canceled its proof that we do influence the show. Ppl stoped watching, ratting droped and show got cancel.

Ah, but as far as TPTB are concerned, it's Skiffy's fault for not promoting them properly. Or it's the fans' fault for not tuning in. Or it's Mercury's fault for being in retrograde. They'll never in a million years admit that they might carry any responsibility for the demise of the show. It isn't their fault for not listening to us, no, it's our fault for not listening to them!

[ToasterOnFire]

Us after Season 2: More Zelenka! More Chuck! Less Kirking!
Show in Season 3: More Zelenka! More Chuck! Less Kirking!

Claim Debunked.


Us in Season 3: "Lucius sucked! Too little background!"
JM: "There won't be any Lucius in S4. Every character will get a background story early in S4."

Claim debunked.


Us after Season 2: More Ronon! More whales! More off-duty time!
Show in Season 3: Sateda! Echoes! Sunday! (could be continued easily)

Claim debunked.

Er, no. None of those claims are debunked until you can prove to me that TPTB specifically put in all of those elements because of fan reaction, not because they were planning on doing it in the first place anyway.

[jckfan55]

I just do not know why TPTB of SG-1 always seem to go after the Fans and never admit when things do not work.It just seems TPTB of SG-1 have very thin skin.That's not to say that some Fans do not take things too far.It just seems TPTB go out of there way to add fuel to the fire.I do not see this from TPTB of other Shows.TPTB make all these changes to SG-1 and Atlantis and they expect the Fans to be nice and quite and go along with everything without question.

They contradict themselves all the time. On commentaries they sometimes say "the fans wanted to see x and we worked it in." Then they say they don't pay attention to fans. They'll do what they'll do.
IMHO, you can't write a show by opinion poll (which may be what he was getting at here) but if fans really hate what you're doing you'll be out of a job because they'll stop watching. So it's in your interest to pay *some* attention. They obviously pay attention to fans or they wouldn't show up with Blogs etc.

[sgeureka]

Yes, I have a lot of respect for the creative process (when it exists) and for the constraints placed on producers by the networks and studios, but the Suits aren't your main audience; the fans are. I think it pays to at least listen to what fans are saying and to take a look at your product to see if there's any merit to their complaints/criticism.

I don't disagree with that, in fact I believe you're right, but isn't there a difference between writer-producers (e.g. Joe) and "the Suits" (SCIFI and MGM)? Joe and his team may be responsible for the creativity on the Stargate shows, but aren't the Suits even more interested in ensuring that enough people watch the show (i.e. $$$)?

And that's I think where some fans get upset. (I could be wrong though.) In order to continue getting $$$, the Suits *are* very likely to do market research and take general fan mail as feedback seriously. And from what I can tell, they also set/provide the money for each episode and check the writers' scripts to be in accordance with major fan mail comments, both actions limiting the creative freedom of the writers.

And along comes Joe and says fan mail does not have much impact on creativity. Yes, fan mail to him and/or the other writers directly may not have any major impact on how they write their scripts, but the general fan mail via SCIFI/MGM does.

It's just that the creative input some fans wished they had (e.g. McKay should mention his favorite ice hockey team more often or other specific details) will be completely ignored in the process.

[FoolishPleasure]

Hell SG! being canceled its proof that we do influence the show. Ppl stoped watching, ratting droped and show got cancel.

I just remembered...didnt Skaara stay alive because of the on-line response?LOL

The ratings for SG1 have actually been slightly higher than SGA this season (or last summer actually). SGA is a cheaper show to make so the profits are higher. It all comes down to money, as usual.

[IWantToBelieve]

Businesses have suggestion boxes and surveys.

TV shows have ratings.

Stargate's ratings have declined.

Businesses wade through the suggestions and surveys and try to pinpoint what they do that's working and what they do that's not. They address the broad scope to fix problems that cost them customers.

TV shows can (and often do) ignore fan comments. TV shows get cancelled.

Cause and effect.

JM and co. have every right to ignore fan comments and opinions. But when they neglect to take a broad look at fan opinions and common denominators in what works and what doesn't, they are only hurting themselves in the process.

Should fans dictate what they do creatively? Should fans influence their decisions?

That's up to the ones in charge to answer, but they should know, we answer back by either tuning in, or not.

And a common thread is that a lot more people have opted not this past season, and if they don't care to look for why, then they'll see the issues continuing to cost them viewers.

Personally, I still love Stargate. I still watch. I get aggravated by issues that I think shouldn't be happening, and I cheer when they achieve that zen state in a show that leaves me very fan-satiated.

But also as a fan, I absolutely do not like the tone of "this is what we're going to do, and if you don't like it, tough noogies" -- a complete dismissal of fan opinion is a very arrogant thing to do.

[jenks]

Business have suggestion boxes and surveys.

TV shows have ratings.

Stargate's ratings have declined.

It's not as simple as that though, there are lots of reasons why the show would lose ratings, not just because of a lack of quality. People seems to think that Gatewrold is an accurate representation of the feelings of the viewer base, but I really don't think it is, the average viewer won't put half as much thought into each ep, they'll just watch and enjoy...

[Ltcolshepjumper]

You can't just go through something and enjoy everything that is thrown at you.

[kes]

The ratings for SG1 have actually been slightly higher than SGA this season (or last summer actually). SGA is a cheaper show to make so the profits are higher. It all comes down to money, as usual.

Well yes I know. But SG-1 ratings dropped a lot comparing to last year. Just SG-1. NO Atlantis involvement.

[nonniemous]

And then there's this: The simple fact that Mr. Mallozzi brought up the letter-writing and fan reaction to things proves that it has had an impact--he knows about it, he knows the content of those complaints given his comments. No, they don't have to listen, but he's proved his own point false just by his response.

I know that fans can't "run" the show, nor can every whim be catered to. But for Mallozzi to cop such an attitude towards fans in general is insulting and arrogant. And for TPTB to continually insist that nothing but nothing of why both SG's ratings have dropped so drastically this past year is due to what they contribute to the show is arrogant in the extreme.

One of the first things you learn as a writer is that NOTHING you write is so damned good it can't be cut from the end product. And generally, when a writer starts saying things like "I write what I want to see," it's a good sign they're in dire need of an editor who isn't afraid to tell them the truth: That their writing is tired, pedantic, cliched, unoriginal, uninspiring, unentertaining... Something no one wants to hear, and yet, if they have the ovaries to listen to and consider, it can be the best damned thing for a writer to hear.

Obviously something is wrong in the Stargate world, or the ratings wouldn't have dropped so dramatically. Nor would SG1 have been cancelled; nor would there have been a need to kiill off an established character to "Shake things up." There'd be no need for an "infusion" of SG1 via Carter or for the "mourning of old friends" and perky new ... faces on SGA. For Mallozzi and Wright and Co. to refuse to consider that it might be their writing or production that's part of the problem? Ridiculous AND unprofessional, of all of them. For them to refuse to consider the general trend of complaints in the fandom as part of their market research to solve these problems? Again, ridiculous and unprofessional.

Maybe Bridge should get together with Ann Rice for coffee and hints on how to deal with a fandom that's not happy with their end product. Then again, maybe they already did. Or maybe they're just with Skiffy, buying into the fantasy that most sci fi fen are young males more interested in perky things and explosions and CGI than solid storytelling and credible, compelling characters.

[kes]

Ah, but as far as TPTB are concerned, it's Skiffy's fault for not promoting them properly. Or it's the fans' fault for not tuning in. Or it's Mercury's fault for being in retrograde. They'll never in a million years admit that they might carry any responsibility for the demise of the show. It isn't their fault for not listening to us, no, it's our fault for not listening to them!

I dont really mean that they have to listen to us. I mean that we do influence the show and they need to be more respectful.lol Its all about respect!

[sgeureka]

Er, no. None of those claims are debunked until you can prove to me that TPTB specifically put in all of those elements because of fan reaction, not because they were planning on doing it in the first place anyway.

To be fair, Ltcolshepjumper said TPTB never listen to anything we ask and that (paraphrased) all they do is to annoy us deliberately etc. While I realise his post was partly exaggerated, he couldn't back up a single(!) of his claims with a quote by TPTB where they said "no, under no circumstances will we do what you want." In contrast, I listed several cases of where fans' wishes were rampant to see such things in Season 3, and look! what happened in Season 3. Several audio commentaries also suggest that some fan complaints actually didn't hit deaf ears entirely, even if they didn't turn out to have the impact some/most of us wished.

But while I obviously cannot guarantee that all of my points are actual proof for TPTB listening (which wasn't even my goal), it should at least be clear that Ltcolshepjumper's claim of TPTB's deliberate ignorance on all matters or even deliberately going the opposite way is wrong. In the end, whether TPTB did a thing right because of fan suggestions or because they agreed in their team that a certain action would be right, doesn't really matter in the end as long as the don't go "we'll purposely do what's wrong for the show."

[Silverwings]

Y'know, if the writers/producers want to stay true to their artistic vision and write things that they like above all else... there's a word for that:

Fanfiction

They just happen to be lucky that some other fans like it. So, if they want to stick to their guns, they need to recognize that they have also cut off legitimate claim to viewer loyalty. When the suits make another campaign to "increase viewership" (which I've heard a few times), they shouldn't be surprised to see a little apathy and perhaps even derision from our side of the fence.

Oh, and regarding "shaking things up" and doing something differently and PR? Check out http://www.dilbert.com/ and the comic for today (Feb 21). The timing is fortuitous...