Anti-S9 thread. For complaints and misgivings ONLY.

[golfbooy]

Yeah, season nine has definitely changed the way I view older seasons. It's made me appreciate them all the more. Like a couple of others have mentioned, I seem to have constructed a mental wall for anything following Moebius and RDA's departure. And, to be clear, it's not RDA's absence that makes season nine less than stellar for me. It's the unnecessary changes, the things that are different merely for the sake of change. Yes, I would have preferred RDA to continue on as general, but the fact that he's gone isn't killing the show for me. It's the lack of focus, of purpose, of explanation in the stories, actions, and character motivations. Everyone has been forced out of character to accomodate Mitchell and Vala at some point. To put it bluntly, the things they've done don't make sense, and especially don't make sense given the past eight years of canon.

Also, I got so much out of SG1 that I still vacillate on the subject. I'm glad it continues, because I love the show and always will. But I'm also always going to be comparing later seasons and new character dynamics to what came before. And like I said when Atlantis started, I just don't think they're going to ever catch lightning in a bottle twice. They did with Carter, Daniel, Teal'c and Jack. They haven't with Mtchell, Vala, and the other originals however. The chemistry and comfortable feel the show used to ooze is gone. It pops up now and again when you get any two of the original line up together, but they seem to be shying away from those scenes too nowadays. Anyway, I suspect that like a lot of you, I continue to watch and hope that they'll pull it together at some point, that things will get a little closer to the way they were and a lot farther from the way they've been.

What was I talking about again? Oh yeah, I still love seasons 1-8. In fact, I've been watching season eight on DVD lately and have found myself enjoying it. Now if only they'd have gotten the right Threads on the DVDs I'd have one less complaint with the show. That's a whole different rant, though.

[jyh]

Collateral Damage sounds exactly like one Star Trek Voyager episode where Paris is framed to be murderer on planet which also can alter memories.. Cant remember episode name now.
I think that series is really in trouble when it needs to copy story ideas from Voyager.

Yes, this episode sounds almost EXACTLY like the Voyager episode... I knew someone else had to catch that also! Unfortunately I agree that it's very sad that a Stargate episode so closely resembles the plot of another show's episode. It's way too similar (read: exact) to be a coincidence.

[The Engineer]

But I still think that The engineers post was very close to a personal insult.

First of all: Welcome!
Second: No f.... waaaaaaay. Far away from me my intention to insult anyone. (maybe because English is not the languge I speak every day) some harmful expresions in my native laguage can sound iritating in another one (therefore the laguage barier). What I meant is the he was like wasn't there, like he didn't belonged (again not as an insult). But if the words you find very close to a personal insult then look at the 9x01 and 9x03 when O'Neill speaks and then look at any episode before season 9 and tell me what the more appropriate word would be.
Anyway I like RDA he carried the show on his sholders for so many years and I think the producers didn't used him well. O'Neill deserved a better send off than a few clips in 2 episodes. Maybe a transition episode - the first from season 9 - would have been worked better for the character.
That is my complaint. (at least one of them)

[Uber]

coming back as a regular forum member - S9 has put me off so much, that it's affecting the way I look at earlier seasons.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Not yet (fortunately). I kinda see this new improved shiny show as a completely different entity. Sure, there are some familiar actors/actresses/characters, but it's bearing little resemblance to the show I have been obsessed with for years.

I have a sick feeling that a huge, honkin' part of this is no RDA. The more I see the "new" show and see reruns of classic SG-1, I sense a gaping canyon separating the two. For the first eight years, there was a real team and I felt an almost magical connection and love and force that bound them together. I don't get any of that with this new show.

My conclusion...SG-1 needs Jack O'Neill and RDA to work the way we knew and loved.

I'm desperately trying to consider the possiblity that the first several episodes were an exercise in footfinding...that with no Jack, no Sam, introducing new cast members and new foes...there needs to be a little leeway granted for them to give this new show time to gel. I started to feel more of that "SG-1" feeling from the few episodes leading up to the mid-season break...so I'll hold out a little bit longer.

But my problem is that so many of the decisions made during this transition period have been mindbogglingly stupid.

A new, and supposedly incredibly vital character is introduced and then is almost immediately thrown into the background with Teal'c in favor of Daniel/Vala. This same new character apparently has no real purpose or function except to make cringeworthy jokes that consistently flop and screw up for the sake of the plot. He's never seen a stargate before...and yet we're supposed to swallow that he's capable of leading a team of 9 year veterans...one of whom officially lead the team for a year. He feels more like a nameless member of SG-14 except he has more lines than an extra. I feel no connection to him at all at this point nor do I feel that they have a connection with him either. It's just such a disjointed mess. The best team moment I've felt so far was the scene with Carter, Daniel and Teal'c in Anubis's lab...with Mitchell nowhere to be found. I actually felt a sense of relief watching them together like that...like there's still hope for that team essence to live on even without Jack.

The new opening credits adds to my irkdom as it is so Mitchell-heavy at the intro. Mitchell is not Jack on any level neither is Ben RDA. With the supposed focus on them as a team of equals (plus Mitchell who's so completely overshadowed by the others in his almost complete uselesses and incompetence) rather a leader and the three who follow him, the focus on him as "leader" is perplexing. Wouldn't it have made more sense to show team shots? (Wait...we haven't really had many/any so far this season.) Or a series of shots of the team members doing their thing individually and together? I want to like Mitchell...but I feel like TPTB are almost demanding that I love him with all the publicity and their insistence on how valuable he supposedly is.

The Ties that Bind should never, ever have been brought to the small screen. Except for the one small moment of seeing the guys in leather and the scene with Vala sitting on Daniel's glasses, there was nothing redeemable about that episode. I mean they only have 20 episodes per season after all and they wasted one of them on that. *Sigh*

Furthermore, there have been too many lost opportunities. Babylon for instance...the second worst episode so far this season, frought with overused clichés and tired themes...dropped the ball by not showing a bonding team moment at or near the end when Mitchell returned intact.

There are a few spoilers of upcoming episodes that make me moderately hopeful though so I haven't jumped ship.

That will only occur the moment I see Vala wearing Carter's SG-1 patch.

[ShadowMaat]

I'm starting to get my threads confused. In case I haven't said it here, I'd like to point out that a lot of complaints about the actors/characters are said out of respect for those actors/characters. There's a growing concern that the actors (some of them, anyway) aren't being utilized to their fullest and that their characters are suffering because of it.

In RDA's case, there were a lot of issues involved, and they have all been discussed ad nauseum by folks from every possible side of the matter. But what it boils down to is that, for some, his character hasn't been as good as he has been in previous seasons... and some feel that RDA appeared visibly tired towards the end of his stint on the show.

I don't see that as a personal insult, but I guess I can see how people might think that. What's important, though, is to try and guess what the intent of the poster was, NOT how you personally feel about it. I've read posts that I found horribly rude and I've called the people on it and in most cases, they were shocked that I could interpret what was, to them, an innocent comment in such a negative way. Likewise, I've had TONS of experience with saying something I thought was perfectly straightforward, but which others felt was insulting and hurtful.

Sometimes it helps to just take a step back and try to put a post in perspective.

Personally, I don't think that Jack is the only character to have "suffered" in the latter seasons. Whatever complaints folks have with Jack, I think it pales in comparison to the atrocities visited upon Samantha Carter and from the sound of the spoilers, it's only going to get worse.

I could go into greater detail, but frankly, I've already done so on more than enough occasions on a wide variety of threads. If anyone is TRULY interested, they can look 'em up, but I'm too tired to dredge it all up again.

[Agent_Dark]

I think the problem I've had with Season 9 (this'll sound a bit odd, but I'm not minding it so far - don't hate it, but don't love it either) is that they've tried to set up too much, too fast.

I mean in the first 6 episodes, 4 of them were dealing with a 'Bigger and more dangerous threat' from the Ori. And while I'm all for plot development like that (I actually think the Ori could become pretty cool bad guys), it's the fact that the characters have basically been sidelined in favour of the plot that irks me.

If we compare Season 9 to Season 1 you'll see that the 1st season had the big opener to establish the threat - then backed way off the overall plot arcs and instead dealt with the characters. Cold Lazarus, Family, Cor'ai, Singularity, Torment of Tantalus (and more) all had the character development I was looking for and they came before the build-up of the threat to Earth in There but for the Grace of God, Politics, Serpant's Lair/Grasp.
In Season 9 though, we've had very little character development so far (TPTB and Babylon are about the only two - and they were both slightly dissapointing in development terms to me anyway) but we've had the 'OMG EARTH IS IN DANGER!!!11!!' almost shoved down our throats. It just seems that everything is happening too fast.

IMO, they should have gone the season 1 route - Brang in the Ori at the start but then spent most of the first half (at least) either doing character development for Mitchell and the other new characters (a Zero Hour for Landry would have been good...) or simple stand alone episodes and then do the big build-up of the Ori at the end of the season. I realise the fact that they had no idea if they were coming back for season 10 when they started planning out S9 probably would have made that idea a bit iffy, but I think it would have been a better way to go.

Oh well, there's a couple of episodes in the back half of S9 that have me interested (Ripple Effect and Off the Grid are two), so hopefully they can quell my worries about this season and the next one

[Amanda Eros]

Yes, this episode sounds almost EXACTLY like the Voyager episode... I knew someone else had to catch that also! Unfortunately I agree that it's very sad that a Stargate episode so closely resembles the plot of another show's episode. It's way too similar (read: exact) to be a coincidence.

That one may sound like a Voyager episode, but season nine overall reminds me of DS9. They had the Pawraiths who are very much like the Ori. The Ascended Ancients are like the Prophets.

And I too am having difficulties writing my fics.

[Miz_Gatez]

And I too am having difficulties writing my fics.

Aw, hang in there I couldn't write fanfics at ALL at first. I started writing them with my usual writing style (novella-long) and I didn't get past the first sentence. Later, though, I just sat down with the plot, relaxed, and thought about what I knew about the characters and their personalities...then the story just kinda wrote itself....I know that's not exactly helpful in any way, shape, or form, but I'll never claim to be cut out to be a teacher Ideas or plots will come...and usually right in the middle of that nasty math test you just can NOT get out of for two seconds...

[The Engineer]

coming back as a regular forum member - S9 has put me off so much, that it's affecting the way I look at earlier seasons.

Anyone else experiencing this?

I konw the feeling. When I saw Stargate I saw I saw it episodes from different seasons mostly season 7. I didn't understand who this Jonas guy was and where Daniel has gone (didn't understood why he was naked on an alien planet, and what was the ascension stuff all about) but it all became clear when I saw Meridian. I didn't understood where Apophis was until Enemies and who was this Anubis untill I saw season 5. And when everything was clear to me than came Full Circle that was a mindblower for me.
And this not that feeling and and you are refering to the fact that knowing that there are episodes (entire seasons) that let you down I perfectly understand you. It creats mixed feelings, feelings of lave and hate, of admiration and frustration, of joy and sorrow. Feelings of dispair because you know that there is nothing you can do. You feel like the show has entered a coma, and the only word that comes into your mind is euthanasia. Am I right?

[Uber]

I konw the feeling. When I saw Stargate I saw I saw it episodes from different seasons mostly season 7. I didn't understand who this Jonas guy was and where Daniel has gone (didn't understood why he was naked on an alien planet, and what was the ascension stuff all about) but it all became clear when I saw Meridian. I didn't understood where Apophis was until Enemies and who was this Anubis untill I saw season 5. And when everything was clear to me than came Full Circle that was a mindblower for me.
And this not that feeling and and you are refering to the fact that knowing that there are episodes (entire seasons) that let you down I perfectly understand you. It creats mixed feelings, feelings of lave and hate, of admiration and frustration, of joy and sorrow. Feelings of dispair because you know that there is nothing you can do. You feel like the show has entered a coma, and the only word that comes into your mind is euthanasia. Am I right?

Actually, the word that comes to my mind is "defibrilator."

As in, "is it DE-fibrilating...now?"

[Skydiver]

my 'issue' with cam isn't totally his capabilities as a leader....but that we've yet to SEE his capabilities as leader. we've been told, ad nauseun, how great and fantastic he is...but i have yet to see him do anything special.

yeah, so he got his super ninja jaffa training, which i think was more to give him a speciality - sam has the tok'ra, jack the asgard, daniel the ancients, teal'c the jaffa....cam needed someone, but, as many times as we've seen cam as a leader, we've seen him as a green, bumbling, so not taking it seriously crackpot who's endangering his team by not knowing when to shut up

cam has potential....and maybe if they stop trying to sell him to us and simply concentrate on writing him as something approaching competant, we'll get to see it

I think that's one of the weaknesses lately, the viewers aren't being shown things, they're being told them and explectd to believe them...and anyone who doesn't simply buy it on blind faith is thought of as some sort of crackpot hwo has no taste

[ShadowMaat]

Pfft, they don't have time for "show, don't tell." Didn't you hear?? THE UNIVERSE IS IN DANGER!! No time for backstory or character development! Quickly!! To the Gatemobile!

Plus, haven't you heard? We're supposed to "trust TPTB." That means we accept whatever they tell us, no matter what.

[The Engineer]

Pfft, they don't have time for "show, don't tell." Didn't you hear?? THE UNIVERSE IS IN DANGER!! No time for backstory or character development! Quickly!! To the Gatemobile!

LOOOL

[SimilarCadence]

coming back as a regular forum member - S9 has put me off so much, that it's affecting the way I look at earlier seasons.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Speaking for myself, it makes me even more appreciative of the earlier seasons and yet there's an undercurrent of melancholy because what I loved about SG-1---the intelligence, imagination, wit and humor plus the warm, loving relationships (the "family-ness") between Jack, Teal'c, Daniel and Sam----is gone forever. It was a very special and unique show; the actors and the characters they played had a beautiful, effortless chemistry between them which can't be reproduced. By trying to radically recreate SG-1 in new and "exciting" ways, those responsible for Season 9 have accomplished something very rare: they've made a sow's ear out of a silk purse.....

I find I'm watching SG-1 less and Atlantis more this season and if SG-1 continues its, imho, downward spiral, I won't be watching it at all next season. There's really only one episode this season that I'm looking forward to and that's Ripple Effect.

If others are enjoying Season 9, I'm glad for them. As for me, I'm not really interested in seeing the Stargate SG-1 I love lobotimized right in front of my eyes.....

[Skydiver]

yeah, the characters used to care about each other. you could see it in glances or gestures, just little things.

now...now they're just folks in the same uniform, or in vala's case, hanging out of it. (vala is really a shame. CB is a good actress and while she might have fun playing vala, the character is really beneath her...heck beneath any actress who's not on her first gig)

that's the saddest part, they're playing more like robot doubles than the original characters