Does science fiction sell us on a materialist world view that is impossible to reconcile with the true state of reality? Or can it avert humanity from it's self destructive future? What do you think and why???
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for me sci-fi has given me the opportunity to learn more things such as science, culture and society. all the good sci-fi shows have great characters, plots and are intelligent enough to keep you engaged and make you think. the genre also has helped me get though some hard times, its provided an escape that was much needed. thanks to sci-fi, i've had adventures in space, on a mysteries island and time travel, etc.
as for material stuff, i've really haven't spent that much. i do own dvds (not even whole box sets) and i've been to two harry potter conventions (which is fanasy, but i'll mention it anyway). and i dream of someday going to comic-consigpic
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By MATERIALIST I mean; The theory that physical matter is the only reality and that everything, including thought, feeling, mind, and will, can be explained in terms of matter and physical phenomena. NOT... The theory or attitude that physical well-being and worldly possessions constitute the greatest good and highest value in life. Though they may well generate desires for high end technology purchases.
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Originally posted by mescalito4 View PostDoes science fiction sell us on a materialist world view that is impossible to reconcile with the true state of reality? Or can it avert humanity from it's self destructive future? What do you think and why???
In addition, what makes you think that humanity's future is self-destructive? You can't claim that humans are going to destroy themselves because that might never happen. We can predict the quantum state of electron clouds and to some extent quantum indeterminacy can be applied reverse-hermetically -- as above so below, and as below so above -- meaning that all we can do is make estimated guesses based on percentages, but history has shown time and time again that sometimes the actions of a single person can have profound effects across the world. Butterflies and hurricanes.
Also, not all science-fiction programmes are about what we can measure. In Stargate, it's been established that in order to ascend, a human brain needs to be operating at a certain level, which can be measured, but there is also a 'spiritual' aspect, a willingness to dismiss physical laws and open your mind to ideas which may lie beyond what you perceive to be true, which is why not all of the Alterans/Lanteans were able to successfully ascend. In Earth 2, the terrans are an alien ace who display a spiritual, symbiotic relationship with the planet. And there are many instances of sci-fi (or what might more accurately be called sci-fantasy) dealing with the spiritual aspects of humanity. Tad Williams' Otherland series, for example.Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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What I mean by saying “true state of reality” in essence, is that as much as we advance in knowledge/science we are continually met with even larger questions (we learn how much we don’t know). When the chart of the electromagnetic spectrum was discovered we learned that our senses only responded to a negligible fraction of what there actually is to be perceived. Also theories like quantum consciousness put into question, what we can deduce about reality based on the assumptions of our perceptions (the scientific method may be inherently flawed). Also you are quite right in assuming that I cannot define “the true state of reality” this is really the crux the Question I’m asking i.e. do we believe are senses and move forward as best we can or do we accept that we know and can never really know the “true state of reality” and that what we think and discover is really a poor approximation of the truth. Next as for my initial post being ambiguous and loaded, I guess I’m guilty in regard to my word choice but I don’t necessarily believe one way or the other. Some days I whole hearted believe in techno salvation and others I question whether it is a flawed conception that a process (science) whose advances have lead us to the capability to destroy ourselves in a vast number of ways, (i.e. manmade environmental degradations, nuclear weapons, possible mistakes in possible future genetic engineering projects…, these are problems that in their worst case scenarios have no clear solutions), can hope to save us.
At the same time I tend to see science fiction as a sort of possible future history that can express moral/humanistic concerns for ideas and technologies before they exist, as well science fiction is so radical in the concepts that it brings onto the center stage (compared with other TV/movie) that it can broaden perspectives. However it is in that looking to the future that I believe we may lose some objectivity about the present.
You are right to say that all sci-fi doesn’t concern what we can measure but I feel the sci-fi that has the greatest popularity and thus influence is futurist science fiction. SORRY IF THIS DOESN’T RESPOND TO EVERY POINT AND THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING
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Originally posted by mescalito4 View PostDoes science fiction sell us on a materialist world view that is impossible to reconcile with the true state of reality? Or can it avert humanity from it's self destructive future? What do you think and why???
What I want to see is science-fiction embracing God and spirituality and trying to reconcile God and science as coexisting without contradiction.
Something to consider... God created man, man created the scientific method, science says man evolved from primordial slime and that God can't be proven. Well, if God created man, then shouldn't God supersede science as something that man invented and is inherently flawed? I'm not saying science should be tossed out the window. However, I do think humanity worships science as if it were a god in and of itself. That's kind of creepy, no?
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Originally posted by Snowman37 View Post
However, I do think humanity worships science as if it were a god in and of itself. That's kind of creepy, no?
Edit: I don't think people worship science. They look to it for answers and rightfully so. Obeying commandments or pillars can give you a sense of spiritual satisfaction and can also improve community spirit but worshipping God, Allah, or other deities can't cure you of disease or explain nuclear fusion. Deistic worship involves obedience to a higher power -- science questions whether a higher power actually exists. For some people, the answer is yes, and for some is no.
I personally take the spiritual view. People who put all of their faith in science amuse me as much as people who put all of their faith in god(s). There are some things that neither god nor science can explain, and it's better to reflect on these things and come up with your own conclusion than be told what to think by a measuring system or a giant sky man. IMO anyway.
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Originally posted by Snowman37 View Post
Science-fiction often ignores or insults the notion of God and the spiritual world.
What I want to see is science-fiction embracing God and spirituality and trying to reconcile God and science as coexisting without contradiction.
I have seen many science fiction programs and read many science fiction books that foray into spiritualism. Stargate itself does so in the form of buddhist-like meditation which can be used to achieve ascension by opening the mind to what lies beyond the realms of science. Most science-fiction will tend dabble in spirituality but avoid god because it makes religious people angry.Last edited by The Urban Spaceman; 16 May 2012, 01:52 AM.Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Originally posted by LT. COL. John Sheppard View Posti don't even understand what he's on about
Originally posted by mescalito4 View PostYou are right to say that all sci-fi doesn’t concern what we can measure but I feel the sci-fi that has the greatest popularity and thus influence is futurist science fiction. SORRY IF THIS DOESN’T RESPOND TO EVERY POINT AND THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING
I wouldn't say that science fiction is popular, though. Some of it, sure, but try being a science fiction author and you'll be lucky to find a publisher who'll touch you. It's still mostly considered genre fiction, and a market only marginally less difficult to crack than fantasy.
One thing I believe some sci-fi can do though is increase tolerance. When you spend a long time watching shows like Star Trek, you come to see the alien and the different as the familiar. Compared to Klingons, the slightly differently coloured chap living down the road doesn't seem quite so different after all.Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
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Originally posted by Snowman37 View PostWhat I want to see is science-fiction embracing God and spirituality and trying to reconcile God and science as coexisting without contradiction.sigpic
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Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View PostNot if you don't believe in god, no.
Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View PostEdit: I don't think people worship science. They look to it for answers and rightfully so. Obeying commandments or pillars can give you a sense of spiritual satisfaction and can also improve community spirit but worshipping God, Allah, or other deities can't cure you of disease or explain nuclear fusion. Deistic worship involves obedience to a higher power -- science questions whether a higher power actually exists. For some people, the answer is yes, and for some is no.
Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View PostI personally take the spiritual view. People who put all of their faith in science amuse me as much as people who put all of their faith in god(s). There are some things that neither god nor science can explain, and it's better to reflect on these things and come up with your own conclusion than be told what to think by a measuring system or a giant sky man. IMO anyway.
Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View PostI would disagree with your assessment here, and merely the fact that you class God and spirituality as the same thing. Many people can be spiritual without being worshipping a god, and there are millions and millions of pagans, wiccans, taoists, buddhists, confuscianists and various native groups who accept that there are forces beyond our control, and whether they call these things spirits, ancestors, elements, tao or karma, it amounts to the same; spiritualism without a deity.
Originally posted by The Urban Spaceman View PostI have seen many science fiction programs and read many science fiction books that foray into spiritualism. Stargate itself does so in the form of buddhist-like meditation which can be used to achieve ascension by opening the mind to what lies beyond the realms of science. Most science-fiction will tend dabble in spirituality but avoid god because it makes religious people angry.
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