I can never tell if this is a shift that's actually happened or just one I've just imagined as I've got older and more cynical
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is TV especially sci-fi, a lot more morally ambiguous then it was over 10 years?
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I prefer to think it's more morally complex - it strives to create a much more realistic portrayal of events, acknowledging that the 'square jawed all-American hero' does not exist, and that good men can do bad things and vice versa.
I for one appreciate this. It's not morally ambiguous but focuses on the actions, rather than the person.
In more morally complex television, a man is good not because of what 'side' he's on, but how he behaves.
I'd suggest that this could stem from having moved away from the Cold War mentality that dogged the latter half of the 20th century. Back then, even in the real world we had overly simplified views of the good guys and the bad guys. Today's threat & security environment is acknowledged as much more complex than the manner in which the Cold War was perceived, so naturally as is our entertainment.
"Five Rounds Rapid"
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Watch an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, then watch an episode of X science-fiction show produced today. In short, yes, it has become morally ambiguous. However, this is not limited to science-fiction. TV drama in general has shifted to moral ambiguity, because it's trendy and it sells.
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This is an interesting topic.
Originally posted by Flyboy View PostI prefer to think it's more morally complex - it strives to create a much more realistic portrayal of events, acknowledging that the 'square jawed all-American hero' does not exist, and that good men can do bad things and vice versa.
I for one appreciate this. It's not morally ambiguous but focuses on the actions, rather than the person.
In more morally complex television, a man is good not because of what 'side' he's on, but how he behaves.
I'd suggest that this could stem from having moved away from the Cold War mentality that dogged the latter half of the 20th century. Back then, even in the real world we had overly simplified views of the good guys and the bad guys. Today's threat & security environment is acknowledged as much more complex than the manner in which the Cold War was perceived, so naturally as is our entertainment.
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Originally posted by Flyboy View PostI prefer to think it's more morally complex - it strives to create a much more realistic portrayal of events, acknowledging that the 'square jawed all-American hero' does not exist, and that good men can do bad things and vice versa.
I for one appreciate this. It's not morally ambiguous but focuses on the actions, rather than the person.
In more morally complex television, a man is good not because of what 'side' he's on, but how he behaves.
I'd suggest that this could stem from having moved away from the Cold War mentality that dogged the latter half of the 20th century. Back then, even in the real world we had overly simplified views of the good guys and the bad guys. Today's threat & security environment is acknowledged as much more complex than the manner in which the Cold War was perceived, so naturally as is our entertainment.
It just entertainment reflecting the uncertain times we live in. Where enemies are not as clear cut any more, where good and bad has become so merge together that many people can no longer tell the difference between the two.
I think it had lead to better story telling, less to 2d characters and more divers worlds being created by giving more freedoms for writers.
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I think it's a natural shift in the environment; I mean morally ambiguity provides more characterization and depth then the usual good/evil characters. While it worked in shows like Star Trek: TNG; it doesn't seem to work later on where shows like Lost seemed to signal a shift towards moral ambiguity and more dramatic situations.
Sure, there may have been moral ambiguity in the 90's but it was buried between the mainstream good/evil. I guess it's all a matter of the who can make the show that changes it all.Back from the grave.
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Originally posted by Snowman37 View PostWhat's wrong with black-and-white morality, and why can't there be the all-American hero?Last edited by knowles2; 01 July 2012, 01:26 AM.
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Originally posted by Snowman37 View PostWhat's wrong with black-and-white morality, and why can't there be the all-American hero?
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Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View PostBecause it's simplistic garbage that does not reflect the world we live in, or to be honest the world at any point. And I say this as someone who does believes that even today, counties like the U.S and the U.K are the "good guys," but we aren’t angels by any stretch of the imagination.sigpic
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Originally posted by knowles2 View PostBoring. Also being a All America Hero limits your market to America. Given the costs of projects are increasing, international sales are becoming more and more important for studios and stations. Which making sure a show as a mix casts in important and making care more about the world rather than just America is important in keeping foreign viewer more involve with the series.
Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View PostBecause it's simplistic garbage that does not reflect the world we live in, or to be honest the world at any point.
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Originally posted by Snowman37 View Post
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Simplistic garbage? What you call garbage, I call idealistic escapism, providing characters whom the viewers can look up to. It may not be realistic, but hey... neither's Stargate.
Unlike some of this people on the thread, I don't believe that shows have become more complex and ambiguous because of the times we live in, instead I think it's a natural process any fictional medium goes through. Novels, theatre, films, comic books and graphic novels, tv and now even videogames, develop and mature over time. They start to experiment with addressing darker and more complex themes and they start to attract audiences that want more of it. Further these tend to be better made than escapist shows, more effort and care is put into every part like the writing, directing, acting etc.
While occasionally I still want a bit of escapism, my appetite for those types of shows have diminished greatly. You can't go back to watching cop shows like CSI after watching something like the Wire, not only because of the Wire's realism, but because the show is put together just show much better. And I don't look up to characters in shows like Stargate or CSI, because they clearly do not inhabit a world that is in any way similar to our own. I look up to the more moral characters in the Wire because, while they may still be deeply flawed, their morality actually means something. They have to deal with moral conundrums, and their own personnel flaws and they have to overcome them to make moral decisions. The characters in stargate, in contrast, are barely more than caricatures, they don't have many flaws, and they are never faced with a moral problem that isn't either is forgotten about in 5 minutes or has some easy way out. This makes them seem less like real people to me, and as a result I care about them much less. While in the Wire the more moral characters may make mistakes, they may even make deeply immoral decisions sometimes, but the fact they actually have to make an effort to overcome these problems rather than breezing through everything, that makes them seem more real to me, that actually makes them more likeable to me and that makes me care about what happens to the characters much more, improving the show for me.
The shows that actually try and be something more than escapism are, I find, infinitely more compelling, I actually care about the plot and how it affects the characters. These shows provide me with a richer, more satisfying and altogether more enjoyable experience than those shows that never want to amount to more than escapism.
In the end the best analogy is this, why would you go back to cheap hamburgers when you can have prime rib?
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