Reform Syfy Now Uberthread - Syfy Boycott/Ultimatum thread

[Thunderstorm]

Yes they are a business - a business based around MAKING SCIENCE FICTION. When they stop doing that they should expect to fail.

WRONG. They are in a business to make money. They do that by paying as little as they can for tv shows and hoping they can sell enough advertisements to cover the costs. They don't care if it's science fiction or not.

And yes, they ARE obligated to provide us with the kind of content we want to see. That is why we tune in to their network. Companies pay THEM to show US advertisements.

No they aren't. They have no obligation to the fans. Let me repeat that - They have no obligation to the fans. Their obligation is to the advertisers and their investors. Advertisers pay a certain amount of money to Syfy and are promised a certain level of viewership. If viewers drop, then depending on the contract Syfy either has to give back money, or show additional ads for free or charges much less on the next contract. Quality of tv show (which is very subjective) or fan interest has nothing to do with it.

As for a LOT of sci-fi fans being pissed off, I do really mean A LOT - all you see online are the few extremely upset viewers posting because show X or Y was canceled. If anything, 100X that number are really out there. I work for a major hardware manufacturer - we assume that every negative review represents thousands of upset customers. When it comes to something like a TV show I would expect that to be magnified.

Yes, but the buyers of the hardware are your customers. In the tv business the advertisers are the buyers of the product, not the fans. It would be the same as me watching someone use your hardware and saying I don't like it. If I didn't pay for it and have no intention to pay for it - does it matter? Maybe, if you are a very conscientious company that wants to please everyone. Networks and the tv business are far from that model. They want to please the people actually paying them - advertisers and investors and most of those people want numbers of viewers, they don't care what those viewers watch, just as long as they are watching which is why we get tv aimed at the lowest common denominator.

As for how we can manage to obtain the numbers? No way to know unless we at least try. If things keep going like they are, and we do nothing to try to counteract it than we have no one but ourselves to blame.

I agree but it takes more than posting on a site or signing a meaningless petition. I made a detailed post in another thread about all the steps we took to try and save Forever Knight back in the 90's and how those might apply now. And what was the response - it's too late to do anything anyway. Which I interpretted as - WOW that's a lot of work (and money), I don't want to get that involved. I can find the post if you would like to borrow some of the points for your campaign.

Another thing to consider is that even if we get half the numbers we need, fear is a very powerful tool. If the executives feel we will make an impact they may try to appease us to prevent the movement from growing any stronger and further harming "their good name".

What you consider constitutes a "good name" and what they do are two entirely different things. You want (what you consider) quality programming regardless of cost. They want the most advertising money for the least costly programming.

We don't want our shows delivered with giant ransom notes saying "If you and 10 of your friends don't watch this live, we are going to take it away" - instead what we want is "We are making a new show. We promise it will be on for 5 seasons, and will be given a proper ending. At that point if it is doing well enough we'll give it another 3 years- if not we simply won't renew it" - If the network loses money on the show, so be it. They make more than enough money from their other shows (Re-runs, reality, wrestling, etc.) and are still benefiting because they are able to advertise their other shows to the new shows audience.

Yep - it's official. You are living in a fantasy world.

NOBODY is going to guarantee a show for 5 years.

"If the network loses money on the show, so be it." So can you pay me to sell a product for your hardware company. If you lose money, who cares, you're making money on other products. I don't think that will go over well with your boss. That only works if you're a company like Walmart that has enough other products. Tv networks have a finite amount of shows they have space for.

Secondly, it doesn't matter what you want. It only matters what the advertisers want. Unless the show airs on pay-per-view (HBO, Showtime, etc) or is going straight to dvd or itunes, the advertisers make the calls.


I know you mean well, and maybe this is your 1st show that has been cancelled(if so my condolences it's hard to go thru), but money is the only thing that counts. Don't spend your time tweeting, or facebooking, or signing petitions. If you are serious (and you sound like it), put your time and money where it can make a difference. And take this lesson to the next show, when you see the ratings start to slip that's when to take action.

What you want is not the way the tv business works, and that's not going to change unless you gets 10's of millions of people to quit watching tv, or get hired to run a network, or win a lottery and buy a network.

[Tanith0709]

Indeed, all networks are first and foremost a business that is out to make money. Agreeing to a "Lifespan" would be a piss poor business decision. If a network did that with every show then they would most likely become bankrupt very quickly.

For the most part it is not their job to think about ways to lower costs in order for a show to continue if it's under-performing (in the case of Stargate that would of been the MGM side of things). To them (MGM) they most likely believed that reducing the cast, less effects etc would have dropped the overall quality of the show and thus would end up being less well received with the fans.

There is also no way to predict how successful a show will be and when/if it will be canceled. It would again be a piss poor business decision to agree to pay towards an ending if they are forced to cancel, since they are losing money on it already and wouldn't want to essentially waste money as they wouldn't make a profit.

Networks have absolutely no obligations to the fans of any show they air.

[Ekras]

Oh no- I've been through it time and time again. I know how things work - That's what I'm trying to change. I know I can't change the entire industry, but it is more than possible to force a change to a single network.

It's simple- they either accept these conditions, or we stop watching - end of story. It might not be good for business, but it's better than having the network go bankrupt (which is what will happen if enough people tune out). Even if we can't get enough people to tank the network (which I think we can) we can do more damage than its worth.

We may not get everything we want, but we can certainly get them to the negotiating table and improve things for everyone.

We need to FORCE them to be beholden to us. Your right- at the moment the power is entirely in the hands of the advertisers. And it will stay that way as long as we let them.

[Tanith0709]

Wrestling and shows such as Haven, Eureka, Warehouse 13 etc achieve the kind of ratings that keep Syfy afloat. I don't think you will be able to manage to convince the mast majority of those viewers to tune out.

I believe that you are greatly overestimating the support you will have. Hell I'm even sad about SGU's cancellation, the reduction of shows in the genre etc but I and most others who have responded to this topic think what you're suggesting is madness. I think that thought will echo with the vast majority of people you suggest this to.

[LtColCarter]

Ok obviously I did a terrible job of explaining my position in that post, so let me try again....

Shows should be given a "Lifespan" of a set number of seasons (For shows like SGU that should be around 5 seasons). Unless the ratings are negligible, they should be contractually obligated to produce the show for that period of time. I know that's not how it currently works, and that SyFail is simply copying the strategy employed by the major networks- but that strategy doesn't work for me, and shouldn't work for you. As a network that caters to intellectuals, they need to understand we have higher standards. If you bring us a show, we expect it to run its course. If it starts to lose money, than other methods need to be employed over the LONG HAUL to reduce costs- replace actors, use less effects, change up the story to attract new viewers, etc.

Shows also need to be guaranteed an ending if they are cancelled. A minimum of 5 hours of programing needs to be guaranteed (if the show-runners want to do so of course) in the contracts, prior to the show being green-lit.

These people aren't idiots (I hope)- with the ammount of money they claim it costs to make a show, they have plenty of room to work with to cut costs. A little creativity goes a long way.

People are out to make money...if a show isn't being watched...it won't pull in the money.

[magictrick]

I think Thunderstorm did a great job in his post covering a lot of things. Now just my 2 cents briefly.

I think the whole "change things or we will stop watching" is the wrong approach to take. First, as pointed out, a lot of people watch other shows on the network, and they will continue to do so.

Second, remember who you want to read your letters and petitions - the network executives. They will never take you seriously if you sound like a crazed fan. The letters and reasoning have to be brief and to the point explaining all the positives you saw in the show(s) and why you thought it was great. Regardless of what you may think, the network execs are fans of shows as well.

Also, if you're looking to get a show back on the air, there have been successful campaigns (although very few). So check out how fans of Jericho affected CBS' decision to bring the show back.

[Thunderstorm]

I know I can't change the entire industry, but it is more than possible to force a change to a single network.

The problem is it's not a single network. It's part of a large conglomerate that has many channels. Most of the channels on cable are owned by just a few companies. I don't know how independent they are allowed to be, but I doubt they can change there format with out the ok from the conglomerate heads.

Also, SyFy is the wrong network to be aiming this type of change at. Yes they may be the what we consider the worst quality or the most objectionable content but sadly that is there model - and they make money at it. Their aim is to buy inexpensive shows (pseudo-reality, cheap movies, etc) which doesn't take as much profit to be successful.

If your aim is to truly change the content of networks, you'd be better off going for a smaller channel that isn't owned by a conglomerate and can truly make the changes you want. Look at OWN (Oprah Winfrey Network) - it's just getting started, owned (mostly) by someone who seems to want good content and I don't think would be greedy money wise (although I have no idea about this - she may be a tough business person in reality). You'd probably have a better chance of infliuencing there make up and if they can make it work and stay on the air then you can point at the model to the bigger companies and maybe make some headway.

It's simple- they either accept these conditions, or we stop watching - end of story. It might not be good for business, but it's better than having the network go bankrupt (which is what will happen if enough people tune out). Even if we can't get enough people to tank the network (which I think we can) we can do more damage than its worth.

In theory yes, in reality no. You have to convince people not to watch other shows they like. You have to convince the people that watch those junk shows - wrestling, ghost hunters, etc NOT to watch them. And mostly importantly - you have to find the nielsen viewers and convince them, because if you don't do that it doesn't matter how many other people you convince, even if it is millions. And you not going to convince millions. Have you followed any of the other protests of shows? The protests against ABC for cancelling the soaps All My Children and One Life to Live - alot more vocal than SGU and these are people that have been watching for years (some 30+) not just the short 2 yrs SGU has been on, and they even got 1 advertiser behind them (Hoover, I think, pulled their ads) and yet when they had a protest this week in front of ABC they had 30 people - just 30 - that's worse than no protest at all.

We need to FORCE them to be beholden to us. Your right- at the moment the power is entirely in the hands of the advertisers. And it will stay that way as long as we let them.

The only way we will get them beholden to us is to pay more money than the advertisers. Media Conglomerates are notoroiusly slow about change (really slow). Look at how much talk there is about changing the ratings system - 10-20 yrs now and nothing has happened and even the networks themselves agree their is a problem. The music industry didn't change until they went years with losing money. So if you can convince millions to change their tv habits and keep it up for for many years in a row then good for you. Sadly I think you may get thousands at best.

[Ekras]

I think Thunderstorm did a great job in his post covering a lot of things. Now just my 2 cents briefly.

I think the whole "change things or we will stop watching" is the wrong approach to take. First, as pointed out, a lot of people watch other shows on the network, and they will continue to do so.

Second, remember who you want to read your letters and petitions - the network executives. They will never take you seriously if you sound like a crazed fan. The letters and reasoning have to be brief and to the point explaining all the positives you saw in the show(s) and why you thought it was great. Regardless of what you may think, the network execs are fans of shows as well.

Also, if you're looking to get a show back on the air, there have been successful campaigns (although very few). So check out how fans of Jericho affected CBS' decision to bring the show back.

I'm not TRYING to get "a" show back on the air - I'm trying to get them to start making science fiction again - I don't care what franchise the new shows are in, or even if they are any good - People keep mistaking this for a "bring back SGU" boycott- it's not. SGU's cancellation was one item in a long list of unnecessary cancellations, followed by announcements of non-genre pickups. Add on top of that the insane amount of disrespect they are showing their fans, and the absolute lack of even TRYING to make things right, boycotting is truly the only course of action.

Obviously I need to think about how I'm presenting my arguments - but the validity of the boycott more than holds.

[jelgate]

I'm not TRYING to get "a" show back on the air - I'm trying to get them to start making science fiction again - I don't care what franchise the new shows are in, or even if they are any good - People keep mistaking this for a "bring back SGU" boycott- it's not. SGU's cancellation was one item in a long list of unnecessary cancellations, followed by announcements of non-genre pickups. Add on top of that the insane amount of disrespect they are showing their fans, and the absolute lack of even TRYING to make things right, boycotting is truly the only course of action.

Obviously I need to think about how I'm presenting my arguments - but the validity of the boycott more than holds.

Thats never going to happen. A TV channel appeals to the masses so it can get more profit. SyFy increase in profit of their more fantasy shows of recent speaks its what the majority of viewers are intetrested in.

[Thunderstorm]

I'm not TRYING to get "a" show back on the air - I'm trying to get them to start making science fiction again

They are not in the business of 'making' shows. They buy shows or concepts from other entities and put them on air. If someone presents them with a scif-fi show at a price they are willing to spend they'd probably pic it up but as scifi shows seem to be more expensive than others that's not as likely anymore.

They are not a science fiction channel anymore despite how much you want them to be. That's like a restaurant switching from Italian to Chinese. If they are making more money serving Chinese food and have more customers it would be very hard for you to get them to switch back.

SGU's cancellation was one item in a long list of unnecessary cancellations,

You have a different opinion of unnecessary than SyFy. SGU's ratings fell below acceptable levels so the show was cancelled. All networks do this. I'm sure if any of the non science fictions shows fall to low ratings Syfy will cancel them too.

followed by announcements of non-genre pickups.

Money, money, money. They found shows that were cheap to pay for. If someone presented them with a science fiction show for the same price they probably would have picked that up too. The problem is quality costs money and they don't want to pay the money.

Add on top of that the insane amount of disrespect they are showing their fans, and the absolute lack of even TRYING to make things right, boycotting is truly the only course of action.

What disrespect? - Because they cancelled a show you liked even though not enough other people did? It got low ratings, it was cancelled.(That's not disrespect, that's business.) Because you still persist in the belief they are a sci-fi network even though they aren't?


Lack of trying? - Because they won't carry your show anymore even though it may lose them money? They ran the show for 2 yrs despite the ratings. Have you seen how quickly other networks cancel shows? You're damn lucky you got 2 yrs.


You see disrespect where other's don't because you expect the channel to be something other than what it is. You want to boycott to change the channel to what you think it should be not what they are finding makes money. You are basing your decisions on subjective quality (not everyone agrees SGU was quality or more people would have been watching it), they base their decisions on money. Since you want change you are going to have to learn to talk to them on their level. So do leg work and find inexpensive but quality sci-fi shows and present them to Syfy network. Until you can show them a good monetary replacement for what they are currently showing, you're not going to get anywhere.


Edit : Damn! I've got to quit these long winded post. Guess I finally found something I have to say.

[Tanith0709]

I'm not TRYING to get "a" show back on the air - I'm trying to get them to start making science fiction again

You would first need to change the viewing habits of the vast majority of the American population.

As sad as it sounds science fiction is not as popular as it used to be. If Syfy catered to only science fiction shows then they would become bankrupt very quickly. They frankly need those other kinds of shows on their network to appeal to the masses and thus make money, which in turn allows sci-fi shows a chance when they do come along.

To be honest if Syfy had never changed their name, kept solely to science fiction programming, appealed solely to the fans of those shows etc then the network would have gone under long before SGU was conceived.

I would bet that this boycott you are suggesting would only get the attention of sci-fi fans (which atm is not Syfy's largest audience) and the best it will end up doing will be to damage the ratings of other genre related shows on their network. Essentially doing more harm to the genre than good.

[Hyndara71]

Are you really serious about this? Because SGU is cancelled you will call the masses to boycott SyFy and end in this way other shows which others are enjoying. You will sacrifice shows like Sanctuary, WH13, Eureka or Haven because you don't get your weekly SGU-fix? Sorry, to me this sound a little selfish.

It's true, SyFy isn't showing this much scripted shows anymore, but that's because *drumroll* BECAUSE their audience is more about watching so called Reality shows and/or Wrestling. You can be sure when those shows will fall underneath the magical line they will also dissappear.

When I remember about the last 30 years TV-history than I can tell you that there were a lot of shows cancelled, some rest for good, some others way to early gone. And I can also recall that every decade of TV-history has it's own and special ... uhm trend. Back in the 90s there were a lot of Talk-Show crap all around in TV-country. As far as I know in US alike as in Europe. This decade is all about (faked) reality shows. Maybe next decade it will come up with something else creepy and horrible. The best you can do is to shake your head and let it go. You cannot do anything else. This shows bring in the money to the networks. The money that also will finance good TV, scripted shows and movies.

You can believe me, one day you will find another good show. SciFi? Maybe. Fantasy? Why not? I'll give you that good advise: Let it go, enjoy remembering the good times, try something new (maybe ... read a book? There are lots of awesome SciFi-novels out there). With your boycott you will only harm yourself - besides of the fans of the shows still running on SyFy.

[LtColCarter]

Are you really serious about this? Because SGU is cancelled you will call the masses to boycott SyFy and end in this way other shows which others are enjoying. You will sacrifice shows like Sanctuary, WH13, Eureka or Haven because you don't get your weekly SGU-fix? Sorry, to me this sound a little selfish.

It's true, SyFy isn't showing this much scripted shows anymore, but that's because *drumroll* BECAUSE their audience is more about watching so called Reality shows and/or Wrestling. You can be sure when those shows will fall underneath the magical line they will also dissappear.

When I remember about the last 30 years TV-history than I can tell you that there were a lot of shows cancelled, some rest for good, some others way to early gone. And I can also recall that every decade of TV-history has it's own and special ... uhm trend. Back in the 90s there were a lot of Talk-Show crap all around in TV-country. As far as I know in US alike as in Europe. This decade is all about (faked) reality shows. Maybe next decade it will come up with something else creepy and horrible. The best you can do is to shake your head and let it go. You cannot do anything else. This shows bring in the money to the networks. The money that also will finance good TV, scripted shows and movies.

You can believe me, one day you will find another good show. SciFi? Maybe. Fantasy? Why not? I'll give you that good advise: Let it go, enjoy remembering the good times, try something new (maybe ... read a book? There are lots of awesome SciFi-novels out there). With your boycott you will only harm yourself - besides of the fans of the shows still running on SyFy.

Very well said...

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Hello all,

Like many of you, I have had it with Syfy (formerly the Sci-Fi channel) and their arrogance. As such I am starting an official boycott of the network in response to their recent actions (starting with the "Re-branding effort" and culminating in a particularly arrogant and disrespectful letter written to fans of a particular show popular on this site. I'm just getting things running, but I wanted to start a thread so that when we open our doors the forum doesn't get flooded with new threads in every board.

The URL for the boycotts website is: http://www.reformsyfynow.com .

If you are as angry with the network as I am, please join me in officially boycotting Syfy.

Important Note: This is not simply in response to the recent SGU cancellation, or the insulting letter issued by the network in response to fans attempts to have the show revived. The boycott is in response to the direction they have decided to take the network (away from traditional science fiction), the absolute disregard to their fans when planning shows, and their unwillingness to accept that fans of the Genre have different expectations than a traditional viewing audience.

The thing is, much as I dislike Syfy, I think most of your ideas are pretty much unworkable. No channel will implement this stuff, and frankly some the ideas, like demanding a set number of episodes and quota on what sort of genre of shows there can be is also creatively stifling.

Syfy is in my opinion, a badly run business, it's lost most of its core audience, and replaced with a very fickle one that may look elsewhere for reality and wrestling shows. Despite, as the sole channel focusing on scifi and fantasy, there being a captive audience, Syfy have totally failed to capitalise on this.

But you're ideas would make it worse, focusing it to shunt money into shows that may haemorrhage money. Smart networks like HBO may keep shows around that, while aren't commercial success, are critical darlings, such as the Wire and Treme. But even these shows normally manage to make some money and are very cheap to film. Now arguably Syfy often causes shows to start losing ratings but moving around the times they air, not promoting them enough etc. But not even the very best networks are not going to be able to pick winners every time. Occasionally a show may not be able to find an audience. Forcing a network to continue to invest in a show that has completely failed will just hurt the network and other shows that require additional investment.

Look in the end a boycott of a channel, especially with your demands, is silly. It's a self defeating prophecy. They would never in a million years agree to your demands, and if they put on an intelligent scifi show, well you're not going to be able to help it to succeed, you promised to boycott the channel remember? Don't watch the channel if they don't put out any content that interests you, that's what I'm doing at the moment, but if they did put out a show I was interested in, I'd watch it to support it, even if I thought that Syfy were likely to shaft it due to their own incompetence.

[LtColCarter]

The thing is, much as I dislike Syfy, I think most of your ideas are pretty much unworkable. No channel will implement this stuff, and frankly some the ideas, like demanding a set number of episodes and quota on what sort of genre of shows there can be is also creatively stifling.
Syfy is in my opinion, a badly run business, it's lost most of its core audience, and replaced with a very fickle one that may look elsewhere for reality and wrestling shows. Despite, as the sole channel focusing on scifi and fantasy, there being a captive audience, Syfy have totally failed to capitalise on this.

But you're ideas would make it worse, focusing it to shunt money into shows that may haemorrhage money. Smart networks like HBO may keep shows around that, while aren't commercial success, are critical darlings, such as the Wire and Treme. But even these shows normally manage to make some money and are very cheap to film. Now arguably Syfy often causes shows to start losing ratings but moving around the times they air, not promoting them enough etc. But not even the very best networks are not going to be able to pick winners every time. Occasionally a show may not be able to find an audience. Forcing a network to continue to invest in a show that has completely failed will just hurt the network and other shows that require additional investment.

Look in the end a boycott of a channel, especially with your demands, is silly. It's a self defeating prophecy. They would never in a million years agree to your demands, and if they put on an intelligent scifi show, well you're not going to be able to help it to succeed, you promised to boycott the channel remember? Don't watch the channel if they don't put out any content that interests you, that's what I'm doing at the moment, but if they did put out a show I was interested in, I'd watch it to support it, even if I thought that Syfy were likely to shaft it due to their own incompetence.

I concur...and it was very well said.